28 top-flight games unbeaten on the road

Justin Cider

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So the home team has an advantage whether the stadium is full or empty? And it is just pure coincidence that last year, with empty stadiums there were more away wins? Interesting analysis.

The home team has always got an advantage unless the Manager, players and groundsmanperson are eejits.
 

jsp

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Yeah mate because it's all about the trophies innit?

Well fundamentally it is and there’s nothing wrong with saying that.

Our clubs targets every season should be to win trophies both domestic and European they won’t always succeed but that has to be the goal.

As fans we can take joy in other things be it great goals, wins or even a great day out with mates but the clubs focus needs to be on winning the big prizes.
 

Justin Cider

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Well fundamentally it is and there’s nothing wrong with saying that.

Our clubs targets every season should be to win trophies both domestic and European they won’t always succeed but that has to be the goal.

As fans we can take joy in other things be it great goals, wins or even a great day out with mates but the clubs focus needs to be on winning the big prizes.

Have you any evidence the club is not trying to win Trophies. I'm sure we were in a European final not so long ago.
 

jsp

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Have you any evidence the club is not trying to win Trophies. I'm sure we were in a European final not so long ago.

Come on Utd are one of the richest clubs with a squad assembled with big fees and wages we shouldn’t be playing in the Europa league and having lost that final we gave the manager a new 3 year deal.

We ended up in that competition after blowing our CL group despite winning our first two games we then lost 3 or the remaining 4 and went out.

So everyone should be judged by how we compete for our own league and in the champions league as we should expect to compete for both on a regular basis.

We haven’t been in the CL final for a decade and we haven’t challenged for the league title in 8.
 

RVN

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Constructive criticism is fine and leads to good debate, taking the p*ss for giggles adds nothing.
I have constructive criticism on another thread and you shot me down. I don't see why I am wrong in wanting the club to win trophies.
 

Justin Cider

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Come on Utd are one of the richest clubs with a squad assembled with big fees and wages we shouldn’t be playing in the Europa league and having lost that final we gave the manager a new 3 year deal.

We ended up in that competition after blowing our CL group despite winning our first two games we then lost 3 or the remaining 4 and went out.

So everyone should be judged by how we compete for our own league and in the champions league as we should expect to compete for both on a regular basis.

We haven’t been in the CL final for a decade and we haven’t challenged for the league title in 8.

Sorry that's just being snobbish, there is no shame playing in the Europa League whether you qualify through your League position the previous season, or drop down from the Champions League and whether you've spent ten bob or £1bn on players.

Don't think we gave Ole a new contract because we lost in the Europa League final more for the progress the club is making on and off the pitch with him in charge, some of that may not be obvious for a while though.

This is the first season Ole has had a squad that is strong enough to compete in the PL and the CL, let's just wait until we're at least half way through the season before deciding whether he and the squad aren't up to the job, and not after a few negative results.

And it's no surprise if we haven't done as well in Europe and the League as we'd like if we keep changing Managers. Continuity is key.
 

Justin Cider

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I have constructive criticism on another thread and you shot me down. I don't see why I am wrong in wanting the club to win trophies.

Which thread? And there's a difference between wanting and expecting trophies.

I'm one foot in the grave and i'd love United to win a few more trophies before I get my calling, but if we don't i'm more than happy with the trophies the club has won in my time.

Most fans never see their team win anything of note so we've not done so bad.
 

jsp

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Sorry that's just being snobbish, there is no shame playing in the Europa League whether you qualify through your League position the previous season, or drop down from the Champions League and whether you've spent ten bob or £1bn on players.

Don't think we gave Ole a new contract because we lost in the Europa League final more for the progress the club is making on and off the pitch with him in charge, some of that may not be obvious for a while though.

This is the first season Ole has had a squad that is strong enough to compete in the PL and the CL, let's just wait until we're at least half way through the season before deciding whether he and the squad aren't up to the job, and not after a few negative results.

And it's no surprise if we haven't done as well in Europe and the League as we'd like if we keep changing Managers. Continuity is key.

It's not snobbish at all it's expectation Utd should not be dropping into the second tier competition given the resources the club has things like that should never happen. Reality is it has happened and you have to get on with it since Fergie left I'd be guessing but I expect we've had as many Europa League campaigns than CL campaigns.

A few negative results? We haven't kept a clean sheet for 19 games in all competitions the last clean sheet was away at Leeds last season. It's not really the results that worry me it's the performances they are consistently crap and have been for a very long time if we were playing well and dropping some points I wouldn't be that worried but we are playing badly game after game. We don't look anything like a team that knows what it's doing which is why teams with less resources can take points of us because there's no game plan to stop them doing whatever they want to do.

Why is continuity key? Continuity works if you have the right man in charge if you don't then you'll just keep getting the same results. Utd don't need continuity they need clear progress and to is credit Ole was delivering progress and he should be remembered for that whatever happens next but you could see plenty of warning signs for this last season. We started the season poorly, we had a slump in the middle and at the end.
 

SuperRash

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Sorry that's just being snobbish, there is no shame playing in the Europa League whether you qualify through your League position the previous season, or drop down from the Champions League and whether you've spent ten bob or £1bn on players.

Don't think we gave Ole a new contract because we lost in the Europa League final more for the progress the club is making on and off the pitch with him in charge, some of that may not be obvious for a while though.

This is the first season Ole has had a squad that is strong enough to compete in the PL and the CL, let's just wait until we're at least half way through the season before deciding whether he and the squad aren't up to the job, and not after a few negative results.

And it's no surprise if we haven't done as well in Europe and the League as we'd like if we keep changing Managers. Continuity is key.
There is no shame playing in the Europa League but we don’t want to be anywhere near the competition. We need to be challenging for the Champions League year on year.

Also success in the EL is good but not a good measure of where we are as a club.
 

Justin Cider

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It's not snobbish at all it's expectation Utd should not be dropping into the second tier competition given the resources the club has things like that should never happen. Reality is it has happened and you have to get on with it since Fergie left I'd be guessing but I expect we've had as many Europa League campaigns than CL campaigns.

A few negative results? We haven't kept a clean sheet for 19 games in all competitions the last clean sheet was away at Leeds last season. It's not really the results that worry me it's the performances they are consistently crap and have been for a very long time if we were playing well and dropping some points I wouldn't be that worried but we are playing badly game after game. We don't look anything like a team that knows what it's doing which is why teams with less resources can take points of us because there's no game plan to stop them doing whatever they want to do.

Why is continuity key? Continuity works if you have the right man in charge if you don't then you'll just keep getting the same results. Utd don't need continuity they need clear progress and to is credit Ole was delivering progress and he should be remembered for that whatever happens next but you could see plenty of warning signs for this last season. We started the season poorly, we had a slump in the middle and at the end.

It's mainly an English thing partially driven by the press of late, on the Continent those in the Europa League set out to win it, using their League for match-fitness and trying out new tactics, whereas in England it's considered a distraction and apart from clubs new to European football, fans of competing clubs want their teams to play the kids and get knocked out at the earliest opportunity.

Don't recall too many fans sulking in the 70's and 80's when we were playing in the UEFA Cup or Cup Winners Cup and not the European Cup, yet nowadays some fans compare the Europa League to the old Intertoto Cup, strange.

Not having that, you don't finish 2nd in the most competitive League in the World and get to a major European final if you play crap week in week out, nor do you go 29 games undefeated on the road in said League, yep you can fluke a few results but come on.

Last season was no ordinary season though was it, the slow start and tired finish was understandable.
 

Justin Cider

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There is no shame playing in the Europa League but we don’t want to be anywhere near the competition. We need to be challenging for the Champions League year on year.

Also success in the EL is good but not a good measure of where we are as a club.

Think we need to be challenging regularly for the Premier League before we can look at challenging for the Champions League once never mind year on year.
 

jsp

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It's mainly an English thing partially driven by the press of late, on the Continent those in the Europa League set out to win it, using their League for match-fitness and trying out new tactics, whereas in England it's considered a distraction and apart from clubs new to European football, fans of competing clubs want their teams to play the kids and get knocked out at the earliest opportunity.

Don't recall too many fans sulking in the 70's and 80's when we were playing in the UEFA Cup or Cup Winners Cup and not the European Cup, yet nowadays some fans compare the Europa League to the old Intertoto Cup, strange.

Not having that, you don't finish 2nd in the most competitive League in the World and get to a major European final if you play crap week in week out, nor do you go 29 games undefeated on the road in said League, yep you can fluke a few results but come on.

Last season was no ordinary season though was it, the slow start and tired finish was understandable.

The top sides plan on how to challenge for the CL every season imagine if one of the big boys from the continent finished 3rd in a group in the CL? Their manager would be sacked on the spot. The strength of the English sides means if you are targeting winning our domestic league you will also be competitive in the CL as a result as our league is so strong now.

That’s because it is in the 70s and 80s only 1 team made it into the European Cup now 4 make it every season the Europa league standard is awful compared to the champions league. The format is also crap teams who finish third should not be dropping into it and the second round certainly shouldn’t have 32 teams in it. The uefa cup and cup winners cup would be much stronger as you normally had top sides in it every season. We can’t keep looking at the past it’s gone we need to deal with the reality of how things are now.

Yes it does sound a bit entitled but we aren’t in the 70s and 80s anymore the game is so rigged in Utd favour now thanks to the work done in the 90s and 00s that it is very reasonable to expect Utd to be competitive every season. They won’t always win but they should always challenge.

Last season all our rivals had off season even City had a drop off yet they still finished 10 points ahead of us. If Utd had been consistent they might have actually had a shot at winning that title we were top around the half way mark then collapsed. After 19 games we were 1 point behind City after 38 games the gap was 12 the team pooped it’s pants the moment it was in a title race.

This squad can play poorly and win regularly because we have lots of brilliant individuals who step up and make the difference but we have never looked like a team under Ole pretty much everyone can see there’s no plan.

You can keep bringing up that away record which is a great achievement but let’s talk about the home record, It’s garbage. We lost 6 league games at home last season that’s our second worst home record in the PL era so almost 30 years.

I get you want to support Ole and back him but what can you see that makes you think he will get this right in the long run?
 

Justin Cider

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The top sides plan on how to challenge for the CL every season imagine if one of the big boys from the continent finished 3rd in a group in the CL? Their manager would be sacked on the spot. The strength of the English sides means if you are targeting winning our domestic league you will also be competitive in the CL as a result as our league is so strong now.

That’s because it is in the 70s and 80s only 1 team made it into the European Cup now 4 make it every season the Europa league standard is awful compared to the champions league. The format is also crap teams who finish third should not be dropping into it and the second round certainly shouldn’t have 32 teams in it. The uefa cup and cup winners cup would be much stronger as you normally had top sides in it every season. We can’t keep looking at the past it’s gone we need to deal with the reality of how things are now.

Yes it does sound a bit entitled but we aren’t in the 70s and 80s anymore the game is so rigged in Utd favour now thanks to the work done in the 90s and 00s that it is very reasonable to expect Utd to be competitive every season. They won’t always win but they should always challenge.

Last season all our rivals had off season even City had a drop off yet they still finished 10 points ahead of us. If Utd had been consistent they might have actually had a shot at winning that title we were top around the half way mark then collapsed. After 19 games we were 1 point behind City after 38 games the gap was 12 the team pooped it’s pants the moment it was in a title race.

This squad can play poorly and win regularly because we have lots of brilliant individuals who step up and make the difference but we have never looked like a team under Ole pretty much everyone can see there’s no plan.

You can keep bringing up that away record which is a great achievement but let’s talk about the home record, It’s garbage. We lost 6 league games at home last season that’s our second worst home record in the PL era so almost 30 years.

I get you want to support Ole and back him but what can you see that makes you think he will get this right in the long run?

Not sure about that, you only need one bad result and you can be in trouble, and there's always team with great reputations in Europe over many years dropping down to the Europa League each year, and not all of them from Groups of Death either, not sure it's a given their Managers get bombed out instantly though. There will be exceptions obviously.

Some of the best matches i've watched as a neutral over the last few seasons have been in the Europa League, so the standards not all that bad if your catch the right games, plus there are plenty of games in the Champions League that can send you to sleep.

And when United won the CWC in 1990/91 season we didn't play anybody of note until the Final so the standard wasn't that high, didn't stop me and many others celebrating for a week though.

City were always gonna pull away last season because they had a superior squad of players(they still do) that had been the course and knew what was needed. Ole is still trying to work out who he can and can't trust.

18 times in the 2019/20 season and 20 times last season we scored 3 or more in a game, so roughly a third of all our games which seems very high for a team you suggest rely on brilliant individuals stepping up, there must have been some team shape there to get them into the positions to score so often.

A lot of teams had poor home records last season, apparently it was because the stadiums were empty, who knows. If it carries on this season Ole's days will be numbered.

There's not one obvious reason, but having tried the best available with little success and much damage, maybe it's a time to have somebody who knows the club inside and out, what works and what doesn't like Ole for the time being, or till such time as he proves he's not up to the job, for some he's well past that point, that's fair enough, for some like myself considering he and his staff are learning on the job he's doing fine. Rome wasn't built in a day.

If Ole is sacked or walks maybe we should give the Gig to Gary Neville with Rio as his no.2, well they do seem to have all the answers.
 

jsp

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There was a lot more home defeats last season because of the fan situation but doesn't that diminish our record? Liverpool lost 6 at home last season during their defensive crisis before that they hadn't lost a league game at home in 3 years or something crazy like that. The season before Utd only lost 2 but also drew 7. We are only winning around 50% of our home games under Ole this was also a problem for previous managers apart from one season under Mourinho when we finished second we won 15 of our 19 that season.

Have we had the best available though? We've had Moyes (nowhere near the best), Van Gaal (his best was 20 years before he arrived) and Mourinho (had started his decline his best was 5 years before he arrived). Ole was the right man at the right time but have the times now changed? The club needed someone who know what the club should look like to come in and repair the damage that existing between the fans and the club and he's done a great job with that. He along with the club have weeded out some of the poorer players and some big earners who weren't happy at Utd it isn't job done but they've made good progress. Generally I think they're added better players when they've signed players to what they had before. The club can't allow any manager to come in and just do whatever they want like they did with the ones before Ole there's got to be a structure behind that manager that maintains consistency and the clubs traditions.

How long is it going to take for him to learn? Shouldn't he be learning elsewhere? Has he already stopped learning as things don't seem to be changing? Who's doing the teaching?

I know Rome wasn't build in a day but I'm guessing a few questions were asked 3 years in when all the building equipments arrived but no one seems to have started putting it together because the manager doesn't know how to build it. To keep this analogy going it feels like the roof for the buildings arrived but we haven't even started digging the foundations yet. We need to start seeing something fast as for me it feels like we're still stuck at the start the only difference is we've got better players now that 3 years ago but there's still no clue on how to fit them together.
 

Mr C

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If Ole is sacked or walks maybe we should give the Gig to Gary Neville with Rio as his no.2, well they do seem to have all the answers.
Unfortunately, it's Ole who needs to have the answers, and this season he's looking pretty clueless.

I'm surprised too. I really thought we would be there or there about this season. Now I don't even think we'll make top 4.

And I do put a lot of the problems on signing Ronaldo, now we have him and Bruno throwing their arms when they don't get the ball. He's upset the balance of the team, and stropping off at the end of every game is not going to do much for team Morale. Him and Bruno a few weeks back off the bench (that Rio brought up) was also undermining.
Ronaldo is not the manager, he's 37 and should not get upset when he doesn't get picked. He's part of a team, not THE team.

Ole needs to be brave, and learn from his mentor, show the whole team who is boss while he still has a bit of control. Becasue to me, at the moment, he looks way out of his depth managing these players.

Why have a pop at Rashford for his off field good work, and not mention Ronaldo's constant stream of self and product advertising on social media. It was an easy target, and the wrong target.
 

jsp

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The Ronaldo thing is a tricky one we were really backed into a corner there as a club if we'd sat back and watched him go to City and not even tried fans would be up in arms demanding to know why the club didn't try to bring him back. I think they had to do it but for all the wrong reasons this team didn't need Ronaldo but it also couldn't let City have him.

Juventus didn't just need him off the books because of his wages they needed him out of the team because they couldn't carry him anymore they wanted to move on.

City needed a quick fix solution like we did last season with Cavani a striker who can come in and bang in goals but Utd fed the Ronaldo beast ever since he came it's been non stop on our social media's it's felt like Ronaldo has taken over running the club. Like Cavani he needed to be used wisely he shouldn't be playing 90 minutes in any game and he shouldn't be playing twice a week.

Many called this problem and were laughed at in the first few weeks as he banged in goals but it's settled down now and of course Ronaldo will score goals but he does nothing else. It doesn't seem like Bruno is willing or able to do his running for him up top and why should he? Ronaldo for a long time now has played in a front 2 first with Benzema and then Morata and for Portugal it's Jota. These guys all do the running he can't do that allow him to be the deadly finisher and provide game changing moments Utd don't have that player or that system to accomodate what he does.

I'd love to see the stats from that Leicester game and see how much running and pressing Iheanacho did compared to Vardy he's a senior player and has adapted his game if Utd want to persist with Ronaldo they have got to change the system which means a lot of unhappy forwards.
 

Justin Cider

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Unfortunately, it's Ole who needs to have the answers, and this season he's looking pretty clueless.

I'm surprised too. I really thought we would be there or there about this season. Now I don't even think we'll make top 4.

And I do put a lot of the problems on signing Ronaldo, now we have him and Bruno throwing their arms when they don't get the ball. He's upset the balance of the team, and stropping off at the end of every game is not going to do much for team Morale. Him and Bruno a few weeks back off the bench (that Rio brought up) was also undermining.
Ronaldo is not the manager, he's 37 and should not get upset when he doesn't get picked. He's part of a team, not THE team.

Ole needs to be brave, and learn from his mentor, show the whole team who is boss while he still has a bit of control. Becasue to me, at the moment, he looks way out of his depth managing these players.

Why have a pop at Rashford for his off field good work, and not mention Ronaldo's constant stream of self and product advertising on social media. It was an easy target, and the wrong target.

As one of the deepest thinkers in the game he will have the answers, my point was it's so easy for somebody on the outside to point out where things are going wrong, for example if somebody says you'll save on your Household bills if once a week the heating isn't left on full when there's no one home, or leaving the shower on for hours after using it, or leaving the fridge door open .... not sure where i'm going with this so moving swiftly on ....

The players themselves have to take some responsibility for our current results, far too many are hiding behind the Manager, and Ole has to work out sharpish which of the players are content just to get to basecamp(just playing for United and the perks that come with it) and which ones want to push on to the summit with him .... nope having a mare here, can't even blame the drink because i'm sober as a judge.

I'll try again ....Ah the old don't think we'll make top four again, and so early in the season as well, i'm trying to work out if those that say similar, and have for the last three years(no doubt it's the same crowd each time) just enjoy being negative for the sake of it ....

Sod it i'm going for a drink.

ps. On Rashford, that's the British press at it's finest, if you've been a United fan long enough you should know how they work, a none story twisted to kick the club when we're apparently down.

Cheers, hic
 

Mr C

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I heard the interview.

I'm not sure why you think all fans who are begining to doubt Ole's credentials fit into the same box you have in your mind of the kind of supporter they are.
I've always been an Ole supporter, but he really does look clueless at the moment.
The next two games are key, he said he's going to look at it and change it. He needs to show he has the balls now.
 

RichH2016

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A few negative results? We haven't kept a clean sheet for 19 games in all competitions the last clean sheet was away at Leeds last season. It's not really the results that worry me it's the performances they are consistently crap and have been for a very long time if we were playing well and dropping some points I wouldn't be that worried but we are playing badly game after game. We don't look anything like a team that knows what it's doing which is why teams with less resources can take points of us because there's no game plan to stop them doing whatever they want to do.
But but but... it's a few negative results this year man. Forget last season and the season before. That means nothing because because well its Ole behind the wheel.
 

IDFD

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Forget the last two years?

Ole has taken the side a step forward both years and you hate that but you cannot say he's done a bad job the last two seasons. That would be nonsense.

You're the one with your but but but and ignoring the past because it suits your agenda.
 

IDFD

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I think it's a massive shame that some people want to pretend to support the club when Ronaldo scores and want to drive the manager out when Ronaldo doesn't score.
 

RichH2016

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Forget the last two years?

Ole has taken the side a step forward both years and you hate that but you cannot say he's done a bad job the last two seasons. That would be nonsense.

You're the one with your but but but and ignoring the past because it suits your agenda.
I'm not saying that though am I. As I've said time and time again (and I'm getting bored of saying it now) he's done good job. But good job and he can take United to the next level are DIFFERENT THINGS.
 

RichH2016

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I think it's a massive shame that some people want to pretend to support the club when Ronaldo scores and want to drive the manager out when Ronaldo doesn't score.
I think it's a massive shame that United fans want to bemoan what Ronaldo doesn't do, when he hasn't all his career, and ignore what he can do on the field.
 

IDFD

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I'm not saying that though am I. As I've said time and time again (and I'm getting bored of saying it now) he's done good job. But good job and he can take United to the next level are DIFFERENT THINGS.

I mean you literally did say that and tried to make the last few years out as a negative.
 

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