Lisandro Martinez | Match Discussion thread 2022/23

Mr C said:
That doesn't account for Brighton and Brentford saying they targeted him.

I don't think Varane gets enough credit for how he organises that defence. Him being in there has definitley made a difference.
Click to expand...

Didn't see Brighton say that. Just that the Brentford boss said they followed the Brighton route of being direct. No one even actually mentioned Martinez name. Press put two and two together. Being direct against United is just a good way to play us.

Martinez has settled in. I believe he's lost 1 aerial dual all season. I'm not sure Varane has made that much of a difference Martinez has been motm in the last two games and has stepped it up. Malacia has come in ahead of Shaw and improved things. Maybe I'm missing something with Varane that people are referencing but he's been our 3rd and 4th best defender in the last two games.

Toney actually had praise for Martinez.

“To be fair to him he was doing well and was very aggressive for a centre-back. Obviously, if he gets beaten in the air he does well on the floor,” said Toney, as per the Manchester Evening News.

“It was a 50-50 and sometimes I got the better of him and sometimes he got the better of me. It is a compliment for me, him getting subbed off at half-time – but whether it was for me or for a different thing they wanted to do we won’t worry.”
 
The direct play to me was a load of nonsense that got blown up because 2 games in Carragher decided to highlight it on MNF.

In those first 2 games Martinez was not a problem the problem was the playing out from the back which allowed the opponent to really press on us in our own half and force mistakes which kept the game being played in our half. That is why I think Brighton and Brentford used that tactic against us.

In the last 2 games Utd have cut out the playing from the back and played a more direct style themselves.

I saw something suggesting that ETH was surprised by how good the weaker sides were at pressing the ball in the first two games of the season and as a result he's had to change his plans slightly to get results while they bed the new style in.
 
Mr C said:
that and the two managers who said it.
Click to expand...

Brentford always play direct so it wasn't really a change in style the Brighton manager said after the game they did look to be a little more direct than usual to avoid the press of Utd. Brentford just used their normal playing style against us which is to be direct and follow in behind. Southampton pretty much played the same way direct to Che Adams win the second ball and play from there then press high to stop the opponent playing out short kick long to their massive centre backs.

But if you watched the games it wasn't the direct style of the opponent that was causing us a problem.

Of the 6 goals we conceded in the first two games

2 keeper errors (1 fumbled long shot and 1 poor pass out)
1 set piece
2 Counter attacks
1 open play goal

The issue in both games was every goal kick we had went short the opponent pressed us and regained possession in dangerous areas this pinned us in our own half.

Since then we've noticeably kicked almost every goal kick/free kick long even though we don't have a target man to play to as ETH has realised the keeper/centre backs can't be trusted to play from the back.
 
Mr C said:
He bought one exactly for that role!
Click to expand...

The keeper is key to the playing from the back working it’s why on day 1 Pep binned Hart, Klopp as soon as he could binned Mingolet, Emery ditched Cech and Arteta ditched Martinez. If the keeper isn’t happy playing that way it just won’t work.
 
Martinez has been much improved the last 3 games and I think a lot of that is down to him forming a partnership with Varane. I think they complement each other nicely. One is the organiser and can dominate a little more in the air. The other is more combative and physical.
 
I absolutely loved the way home and Dalot celebrated the Dalot block. Made Dalot feel like the damn man and the rest of them all got involved too.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
You mean as opposed to the Club Captain giving it the big I am?
Click to expand...

I mean this is a part of the problem Maguire has. Needless digs and people keen to destroy his confidence.

We've won 3 on the trot. We could mention any of those not playing. Maguire hasn't give it the big I am at any point his confidence is destroyed it's mindless bashing.
 
I'm hardly destroying his confidence unless he's lurking on SEA and in that case, gets everything he deserves.

I could've typed: "This season I've had some bad games, but I wouldn't be playing every game for Manchester United in the starting 11 if I'd been playing bad every game," Maguire said. "There's a reason why both managers have put me in the starting 11 every game." but figured the big I am was more concise.
 
Thing is it isn't just on here he gets it non stop everywhere from people and it does my head in because it's Utd fans doing it so many of our own fans seem to take joy in our captains struggle for form.

Must admit in the pub yesterday I almost said something to the lads on the table next to us who spent the last 10 minutes moaning about everything Maguire did.

We're 3-1 up he's come on to a frantic game where a good opponent is chucking the kitchen sink at us and we haven't let in a goal and they haven't created a decent chance at all.

The bloke can't do anything right with some people.
 
jsp said:
Thing is it isn't just on here he gets it non stop everywhere from people and it does my head in because it's Utd fans doing it so many of our own fans seem to take joy in our captains struggle for form.

Must admit in the pub yesterday I almost said something to the lads on the table next to us who spent the last 10 minutes moaning about everything Maguire did.

We're 3-1 up he's come on to a frantic game where a good opponent is chucking the kitchen sink at us and we haven't let in a goal and they haven't created a decent chance at all.

The bloke can't do anything right with some people.
Click to expand...

I can't stand it. It's like fans take glee in it.
 
You dont see anyone giving grief to players like Eriksen do you.

I think Maguire and Lindelof start Thurs night. Just in case Martnez is injured, and to wrap Varane in cotton wool, because he is so good for our defence.
 
Mr C said:
You dont see anyone giving grief to players like Eriksen do you.

I think Maguire and Lindelof start Thurs night. Just in case Martnez is injured, and to wrap Varane in cotton wool, because he is so good for our defence.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the abuse Maguire had got if he'd made the mistake Eriksen made for their goal but got lucky with the ref giving a soft foul? Seriously?

Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and here would have been exploding and no one would have been giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 
I think Maguire has been poor for a long period of time and desereved to be dropped. I also think Eriksen has improved our midfield no end. Great piece on MoTD on how he moves the ball quicker through our midfield, always looking for Bruno, always looking forward and usually in one touch. They showed he moves about to press that you say he doesn't do.

Your attitude to Eriksen is clear in that sentence, so it doesn't matter how good he plays, you wont see it. He didn't get lucky, he got fouled.

In fact your attitude is worse than the anti maguire ones because you haven't even given him a chance. You didn't like the signing and you jump on every minor thing to try and prove your point. Nobody plays a game 100% perfect.

Maguire had his chance, and wasn't good enough, so he needs to earn his place back or be sold. As for yesterday, I don't think it was long enough a cameo to comment on a players performance. As my post above, he'll get a chance on Thurs I think.
 
Haha my attitude worse than the Anti-Maguire brigade because I'm not blinkered to the fact it was a very soft foul and the guy died on the pitch so won't ignore he had a 20 minute lull that will cost us in games if it continues.

You've been banging on about Maguire for 2 years incidents that are on others you try to pin on him.

I don't like the signing I think he's too slow and too much of a liability defensively. Yesterday he had a few good moments. It doesn't excuse the 20 minutes he allowed them to walk through us and McT was a one man midfield.

If it had been Maguire not Eriksen yesterday you'd have been adament it was a foul and he was too weak and too slow. The same way Neville and Hasselbaink were. I could understand you not liking my criticisms if it wasn't being said by others. Especially his 20 minute lull everyone expected him to come off for Casemiro just before our second as he was at the time the worst player on the pitch and looked done.

However this is the Martinez thread. No idea why Maguire was even being criticised on here bar the need to take a pop as always.
 
I didn't critcise him on this thread

I pointed out, that you do the same to Eriksen as others do to Maguire, yet you "can't stand it" when they do.

I think fans can call players pap if they see fit. That's what football is about, opinions. At the end of the day, they just need to prove it to the manager
 
Mr C said:
I didn't critcise him on this thread

I pointed out, that you do the same to Eriksen as others do to Maguire, yet you "can't stand it" when they do.

I think fans can call players pap if they see fit. That's what football is about, opinions. At the end of the day, they just need to prove it to the manager
Click to expand...

There is a massive difference to me being critical of Eriksen being weak on the ball and taking a 20 minute break to the way the fan base has treated Maguire. And if you can't see that I give up.

And if you read back you'll see that the criticism of Maguire was made up rubbish about the club captain giving it the big I am. He gets abuse for stuff he doesn't even do.
 
I don't think realise how your criticism comes across then. Because the first loose touch I guarantee a comment from you appears on here. it's like you're waiting for it

As for Maguire he's been poor and dropped

Back to Martinez, any news on injury, he seemed ok post whistle
 
Mr C said:
I don't think realise how your criticism comes across then. Because the first loose touch I guarantee a comment from you appears on here.

As for Maguire he's been poor and dropped

Back to Martinez, any news on injury, he seemed ok post whistle
Click to expand...

Actually I let his first two errors slide it wasn't until the third one which related to the goal I commented.

This is the only place where the consensus is it was a foul. Even Tottenham fans think we fluked one.

As for Martinez the Metro reported that the sub was just as a precaution which is great news.
 
IDFD said:
There is a massive difference to me being critical of Eriksen being weak on the ball and taking a 20 minute break to the way the fan base has treated Maguire. And if you can't see that I give up.

And if you read back you'll see that the criticism of Maguire was made up rubbish about the club captain giving it the big I am. He gets abuse for stuff he doesn't even do.
Click to expand...
The difference is that Eriksen makes key contributions in games and the partnership linking him and Bruno between the lines is devastating at times. Your argument against Eriksen stands true even more so for Maguire, in that he is poor on the ball, is readily targeted by the opposition for his considerable lack of pace thus exposing him for most of the game. I know we can't blame him for the outlay spent on his transfer but we have not received value for money. You have been critical of Eriksen since he joined us, Maguire has been consistently poor for 18-24 months. I do not agree with fans turning on their own players but we could all see that Maguire needed removing from the first team and spotlight.
 
So far every pundit apart from Hasselbaink who I've seen comment along with 2 former refs all agreed it was a foul.

Odegaard bundles into him from behind and doesn't take any of the ball it may look soft but for about 20 years that's been a foul. The only logic I can give for the ref not giving it at full speed was he must have thought Odegaard kicked the ball when in fact it was Eriksen.

You can't just bundle people over from behind.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure where you get that it's only here, Ian Wright of all people said it was a foul on motd. Literally everything I have read and heard said it was foul. I haven't seen any Sky stuff so the coments on there have passed me by. But everywhere else calls it a foul.

Eriksen has been really positive so far.

As for Martinez, I think either him or Varane or possibly both will get rested on Thurs. I see Casemiro getting a start too.
 
There is a segment of our support who have had a hate on for Maguire from the time he was signed, and have ground that axe ever since, and I agree with @jsp that it gets tiresome rather quickly. I am not one of those people. I didn't think he was as bad as some made out, and certainly wasn't at fault for every goal we conceded. Had he been fit, we win the EL final, no doubt.

However, he is the club captain, and as such, I hold him to a higher standard. His comments in that interview and the ear cupping after scoring v Albania were embarrassing, and no way for a leader of men, never mind club captain to act. His form has dropped drastically after his Greek punch up, and the reason I brought him up in this thread was to contrast Martinez celebrating with his fellow defenders against Maguire digging them out everytime a mistake gets made, or he can't pass it out from the back.

In my opinion, Maguire's attitude is just as poor as Ronaldo's, without the CV to back it up. I don't think he's good enough to be first choice United CB which has been highlighted since Martinez stepped in, and I don't think he represents our club well enough, or has earned the respect of his peers to be club captain.

Re Martinez: Thankfully it's nothing major. He has a touch of the Vidic intensity about him, which I love to see.
 
100% it was a foul. Had those two incidents on Sat not happened and people weren't already up in arms about VAR, this wouldn't even be a conversation. FWIW, Chris Sutton said it was a clear foul on 606 as well.
 
Last word on the Eriksen foul, if it occurs in the area, it is a penalty.

I would rest both Martinez and Varane on Thursday, need them for a tricky game away to Palace on Sunday.
 
RVN said:
Last word on the Eriksen foul, if it occurs in the area, it is a penalty.

I would rest both Martinez and Varane on Thursday, need them for a tricky game away to Palace on Sunday.
Click to expand...

Tielemans had one yesterday that was very similar goal was allowed to stand. Southampton had one on Bruno last season that was similar.

Also there's a much higher threshold for it to be considered a foul this season. Did you see the Saka incident last week that wasn't given a penalty?

We escaped with one and part of the reason for that is that there's a higher threshold for fouls this season. The Leicester goal yesterday is basically a carbon copy.

I'd play a strong team against Sociedad. Win this and we are basically through as winners as the other two teams in the group aren't causing problems. Winning the group is important as it means you don't play in the last 32 so get an extra midweek off.
 
RVN said:
Last word on the Eriksen foul, if it occurs in the area, it is a penalty.

I would rest both Martinez and Varane on Thursday, need them for a tricky game away to Palace on Sunday.
Click to expand...
A foul is a foul at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if it’s a soft foul or someone dive bombs off the crossbar into a player. That’s my last word on it as well.
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Missed this during the match, but odds of a retroactive ban?

Nice to have a bit of nasty that gets under the skin of an opponent.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
Missed this during the match, but odds of a retroactive ban?

Nice to have a bit of nasty that gets under the skin of an opponent.
Click to expand...

Less than zero I’d say can’t see the FA getting involved think even if the ref saw it they’d just go with 2 yellows and tell them both to pack it in.

He is incredibly niggly opposition players/fans will hate him just as much as we love him feels like a long time since we had a player like that.
 
You think the ref would've given a yellow for a petulant kick-out like that? We've seen players sent off for a kick without making contact.

Love the sh$#housing from Martinez though.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
You think the ref would've given a yellow for a petulant kick-out like that? We've seen players sent off for a kick without making contact.

Love the sh$#housing from Martinez though.
Click to expand...

I do I don't think it was a proper boot it was a tap and it clearly didn't hurt Martinez.

Refs I think are trying to keep players on the pitch they were both niggling I don't think it was enough to go straight red.
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Back
Top