Protest at OT - May 2nd

They’ll just ride it out they always do season is over in a few weeks.

The big question is will this happen again on Thursday?
 
Fair point next home game is Leicester in just over a week.
 
Elephants are huge powerful animals who can be restrained with a small piece of rope tied to a small stake because they've been trained from when they were small that they can't actually defeat a rope around their leg. Once they've grown, that rope would never hold them, yet they don't even try to break free.

Same with football supporters. The money in football comes from us. We pay the TV companies. We buy products from sponsors. We spend money on travel and ticketing and food/drink at the ground. We buy merchandise. We can stop going to matches or like we did yesterday, refuse to allow them to go on. How ironic that it was the 'legacy fans' who the Glazers didn't care about when the ESL was proposed that fought back yesterday.

It's not as simple as to suggest that if we protest enough, the Glazers will sell. Realistically there isn't one specific thing that supporters can do to force them to sell, however what yesterday showed, was just how much power the support has. It won't force the Glazers out, but it can focus public opinion and pressure on Parliament who can enact legislation that makes positive change. It can galvanize the rest of our support (which according to twitter is a cluster) to boycott sponsors. If yesterday was a one off, it didn't amount to much. It needs to be the start of continual and sustained action. Make football ownership an election issue and vote accordingly. Mass boycotts of sponsors. Cancel Sky/BT subscriptions (and find other ways to watch...*cough*). Stop funding the Glazers in any way and things will have to change.
 
If a brand is unpopular then companies won’t want to be associated with it the reason sponsors want to be associated with Utd is success. That is why over recent seasons our sponsorship earnings have stalled because the club is no longer successful..

I’m sure police were injured at other protests in the last few years this is sadly part of the job by the sound of it he was caught by a bottle that someone threw. Sadly a few idiots will always ruin these things for the masses this is often how it goes. A crowd will react to a show of force by the police and things flare up.

See I think it is the only was it gets sold is if you can drive the value of it down.

The owners have shown no desire to have dialogue with the fans at any point over the last 16 years.

The focus now needs to move to regulation and demanding that football clubs are independently regulated and forced to act in the best interest of their fans and not their owners.
Who would govern and implement that???
 
if it costs the club it costs the glazers don’t worry about that , I see on social media there’s a lot of people targeting there sponsors now to get at them fairplay to them.
 
In theory CNV sounds great, but is that reality, the Glazers don't care about the 70,000 match going fans, they earn their money elsewhere, 70,000 fans boycott a sponsor, it's no big deal. It's the worldwide fans where money is spent, who don't care who owns the club.
The way it's being done at the moment will just hurt the team, the Glazers will still take their money, but the players we buy will drop in standard.
We carry on like this we'll be an ex big club in 10 years.
But maybe that's what the fans want.
But whoever owns the club, will want a return.
I see a fan group is trying to get a meeting with them, this is the way forward for me, wars never work, diplomacy is the route to success
 
I think for the fans who went they probably do want the club to change even if it means a few years of pain they just want these owners gone. A lot of these people will be current or ex season ticket holders who have put a lot of money into this club for a long time and want to see it change for the better. There is a bigger picture for these people than what happens on the pitch.

I do agree getting these owners out will be tough dare I say almost impossible but if we don't keep trying what hope have the fans got.

There's a risk to forcing them out because who knows what comes next in terms of owners if they do decide to go. Fans are rightly annoyed that in 16 years over £1bn has gone out of the club to pay off their loans and fees. That money could have gone on much better things than debt payments especially when a lot of that money was raised early on by aggressive ticket price increases.

Fan groups have been asking for meetings with them for years but they never listen they will not engage with the fan base last week Joel Glazer talked about rebuilding trust with fans. The fans have never trusted him but if he's got anything about him he'll attend the next fans forum and actually listen to what fans are saying about all of this.
 
Thta's what I mean, in the wake of everything, now is the best time to meet them and open up dialogue.

To be honest, some of the stuff I've seen in the papers is disgusting, the police fights, drinking beer while on the pitch, snorting what can only be assumed as coke off the corner flag. What exactly do these fans think all that will gain? It just looks bad.
Peaceful protest is one thing.

And as I said, they don't care 70,000 fans don't redo their season ticket, some others will buy them instead, and sadly, they don't need match going fans, that's not the revenue.

So they need to sit down, talk with the fans. They have spent money on the team, there can't be any complaints about the money spent there, albeit badly. The facilites have fallen way behind. So they need to upgrade and rent it out for other events.

They are not going to sit and talk with an angry mob
 
Equally I've seen videos of the police punching and kicking a man who was already on the floor, the police line absolutely steam rollering someone stood with their arms crossed as they advanced and also hitting protesters who simply stood their line with their hands raised.

Not everyone there covered themselves in glory on the day and those who did break the law by damaging property or attacking the police will likely face punishment from the police.

Their was certainly an element of a "day out" with the boys to some of the behaviour always amuses me when protesters turn up with carrier bags full of cans you know all the essentials for a good day of protesting.

I don't agree about the tickets if a lot of people all at once chucked their tickets the club will struggle to shift them because the waiting lists just aren't there for them anymore. That is why the prices aren't going up anymore because the demand isn't there.

Why has it taken something on this scale to get a meeting with the owners in the last 16 years?

The supporters trust MUST has been trying for ears to get a meeting and they are far from violent they've been trying the diplomatic route but they hit brick walls all the time as no one high up in the club is willing to meet with them. But the fans forum had believe it or not been doing some good stuff with the club trying to build bridges but this european super league thing absolutely torched that because it was all done behind fans backs.

Woodward was/is in charge he's given 1 interview to fans in all that time when he sat down with a fanzine last summer.
 
The police don't just steam in, there would have been reason.

As for the Glazers, forget what's happened in the past re: meeting them. It's all about now, and it's prime time after the SL debacle.

And for match going fans, I think the SL proved where they think the money is. It's not at OT.
 
Equally I've seen videos of the police punching and kicking a man who was already on the floor, the police line absolutely steam rollering someone stood with their arms crossed as they advanced and also hitting protesters who simply stood their line with their hands raised.

Not everyone there covered themselves in glory on the day and those who did break the law by damaging property or attacking the police will likely face punishment from the police.

Their was certainly an element of a "day out" with the boys to some of the behaviour always amuses me when protesters turn up with carrier bags full of cans you know all the essentials for a good day of protesting.

I don't agree about the tickets if a lot of people all at once chucked their tickets the club will struggle to shift them because the waiting lists just aren't there for them anymore. That is why the prices aren't going up anymore because the demand isn't there.

Why has it taken something on this scale to get a meeting with the owners in the last 16 years?

The supporters trust MUST has been trying for ears to get a meeting and they are far from violent they've been trying the diplomatic route but they hit brick walls all the time as no one high up in the club is willing to meet with them. But the fans forum had believe it or not been doing some good stuff with the club trying to build bridges but this european super league thing absolutely torched that because it was all done behind fans backs.

Woodward was/is in charge he's given 1 interview to fans in all that time when he sat down with a fanzine last summer.
Some of the fans were being idiots, but you get exceptions in any large group where people will go too far - I'm not defending the actions of the small minority but it was always going to happen.
As someone has already mentioned it will always get worse when the police presence arrives, there were blokes who were doing very little wrong and getting walloped with batons and pushed and pulled everywhere.
 
The police don't just steam in, there would have been reason.

As for the Glazers, forget what's happened in the past re: meeting them. It's all about now, and it's prime time after the SL debacle.

And for match going fans, I think the SL proved where they think the money is. It's not at OT.

The police decided to step in to break up the protest and drive it away from the ground this wasn't a reaction to something it was a tactical move to try and break up the gathering. My guess is they were concerned that fans might look to create other routes inside the stadium so they wanted to move them away from the ground.

That is why until they actually come to the table fans need to continue taking action to force them to the table because for 15 years they've dodged the fans and refused to engage because they know they won't be able to weasel out of the awkward questions.

When is the debt going be be repaid?
Why do you take a dividend every year when you are already billionaires?
Why haven't you invested in the stadium?
Why didn't you discuss the super league idea with fans?

The last few years have shown simply asking for permission doesn't work you need a bit of civil disobedience to make things change.

So I don't think it's right to focus on the 1% of idiots who caused a bit of damage and a few injuries rather than the 99% of people who did behave and are really angry about how their club is being run.
 
And as I said, they don't care 70,000 fans don't redo their season ticket, some others will buy them instead, and sadly, they don't need match going fans, that's not the revenue.

So they need to sit down, talk with the fans. They have spent money on the team, there can't be any complaints about the money spent there, albeit badly. The facilites have fallen way behind. So they need to upgrade and rent it out for other events.
These 'legacy' or match going supporters are the ones that were deemed expendable by the SL. It's interesting that the match day revenues make up such a small portion of overall revenues, and yet all of these clubs are crying poverty due to the Coronavirus. they put up disingenuous banners and try to pretend that they miss the fans and that's why revenues are down. It's not. It's because we all have less money to spend on all of the other things that Ed has someone lined up to be the official sponsors of. Like left handed shovels or such like.

They're already vulnerable, now is the time to hit them financially. Stop protesting at the ground and protest at a Chevy dealership. Sponsors have far less stomach for this than the Glazers do.

Talking to the Glazers is a waste of time, as was that You Better Respond By Friday nonsense that MUST put out. They don't give a monkey's what the supporters think which is why they've never bothered to communicate in 16 years.

Just judging on twitter over the last few days, there is a real divide between those who are local/embrace the history, culture, Mancunian nature of supporting this club and those for whom support is a real life video game. Unfortunately there were a lot of the latter out yesterday, who were only concerned that the game didn't happen, and those 'fans' don't protest, they don't boycott sponsors, they don't #glazersout, they do subscribe to every media outlet they can, they do download the app, they do buy club merch, and they are easy targets for the Glazers. If MUST want to make a difference, those are the 'supporters' they need to reach out to and get on board. If they could get the lemmings to stop funding the Glazers then this thing has a chance.
 
Some of the fans were being idiots, but you get exceptions in any large group where people will go too far - I'm not defending the actions of the small minority but it was always going to happen.
As someone has already mentioned it will always get worse when the police presence arrives, there were blokes who were doing very little wrong and getting walloped with batons and pushed and pulled everywhere.

This is the point and to be fair to Jamie Carragher he made this live on Sky that in any large group you will always get a few idiots who takes things to far but you shouldn't use that to change the message.

I don't think the protest should be as extreme for the next home game but I do think fans should gather outside again to voice the frustration at the owners again. The "we decide when you will play" argument has been made the club now need to react to the message that has been sent and start communicating with the fans properly. They need to respond to the questions raised at the emergency fan forum last week and begin some proper dialogue over the plans for the club and assure fans thats this european league idea is gone forever unless fans decide they want it.

To me a start would be for the family to agree to a few years of no dividends use that money to pay down our debts instead.
 
The last few years have shown simply asking for permission doesn't work you need a bit of civil disobedience to make things change.

So I don't think it's right to focus on the 1% of idiots who caused a bit of damage and a few injuries rather than the 99% of people who did behave and are really angry about how their club is being run.
The Glazers used a hostile takeover to gain control of United. In the past few months, they've tried the same trick to get control of the PL through Project Power Grab, and the CL through this Super League nonsense. Essentially it's outright mutiny, and when a mutiny fails, the plotters don't get to just say their apologies and carry on swabbing the deck as before. They take a long walk off a short plank.

If this is the worst the Glazers (and the other 5 clubs) have to put up then they should consider themselves very lucky.
 
there is a real divide between those who are local/embrace the history, culture, Mancunian nature of supporting this club and those for whom support is a real life video game

I 'm not sure that is the difference, I hate the Glazers, but I know a few hundred people behaving like clowns on the pitch is not going to do anything. Even a few thousand peaceful protesters won't. Nor will a few fans targetting the local dealership. United is now much bigger than that, and it will never go back, it's a global brand.

To say I'm not a proper fan becasue I don't think getting games postponed will do anything other than harm the team in the long term and the short term is a bit disrespectful.

Staying away is not going to do anything, they don't care, they don't care about me as a little boy watching the 79 cup final and remembering the hurt like it was yesterday. They don't care about the history unless they can use it for marketing. They don't care about you buying a season ticket.

Those 4 points JSP posted, all have the same answer, money. They are businessmen in charge of a massive global company. And nothing that happens in Manchester is going to affect it too much.

We've had the green and gold before, they made it through. They'll make it through again

I agree, if the end goal is to get them out at all costs, getting games delayed, postponing games, points deductions, fines, players being sold, none being bought and ending up like Newcastle is the end game. Then possibly after a few years of this it might work.

We have to somehow get dialogue open, it's the only thing that will work. Or get someone like Van Der Sar in to replace Ed, but not have him as a token, let him do the job.

They need to pay that debt off, and they need to invest in the ground and Carrington. I can't say they haven't spent money on the team, they have.

New owners will be the same, it's now a busines, and we old fans need to realise that a little, it's not like the good old days any more.
 
The Glazers used a hostile takeover to gain control of United. In the past few months, they've tried the same trick to get control of the PL through Project Power Grab, and the CL through this Super League nonsense. Essentially it's outright mutiny, and when a mutiny fails, the plotters don't get to just say their apologies and carry on swabbing the deck as before. They take a long walk off a short plank.

If this is the worst the Glazers (and the other 5 clubs) have to put up then they should consider themselves very lucky.

The issue is that at 3 of the clubs involved there is no real intention to remove the traitors Chelsea, City and Liverpool fans seem pretty content that the clubs owners have apologised and they are willing to forgive and forget. I thought the Liverpool fans might have seen this as a final straw with their owners but they don't really seem determined to make a big stand on this issue as for the large part their owners have been pretty good for the club.

Same can't be said at Utd, Arsenal and Spurs where fans haven't been happy for a while.

I guess the real question is how will the governing bodies react to the attempt to leave will it be a wrap across the knuckles and a warning or will their be serious consequences from the FA, PL and UEFA. Will this attempt to leave force the government to get involved and impose regulation on their industry?

The government left us high and dry in 2005 I suspect they'll leave us high and dry again they won't want to get involved in football
 


The stories coming out are they aren't going anywhere they think they can ride this one out in 16 years to have zero interaction with your main supporters trust is not good.
 
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This highlights the current issue for the owners over the last few years they’ve really struggle to grow the revenue as matchday and commercial have hit a ceiling and other clubs have started to close the gap on them.

Our advantage in the market as a result of the turnover has dwindled and while the club is still big enough to carry its debt this lack of growth has left it more exposed.

Utd used to be the kings of the sponsorship market but we are still using the same tricks from 15 years ago getting the same results.
 
I 'm not sure that is the difference, I hate the Glazers, but I know a few hundred people behaving like clowns on the pitch is not going to do anything. Even a few thousand peaceful protesters won't. Nor will a few fans targetting the local dealership. United is now much bigger than that, and it will never go back, it's a global brand.

To say I'm not a proper fan becasue I don't think getting games postponed will do anything other than harm the team in the long term and the short term is a bit disrespectful.

Staying away is not going to do anything, they don't care, they don't care about me as a little boy watching the 79 cup final and remembering the hurt like it was yesterday. They don't care about the history unless they can use it for marketing. They don't care about you buying a season ticket.

Those 4 points JSP posted, all have the same answer, money. They are businessmen in charge of a massive global company. And nothing that happens in Manchester is going to affect it too much.

We've had the green and gold before, they made it through. They'll make it through again

I agree, if the end goal is to get them out at all costs, getting games delayed, postponing games, points deductions, fines, players being sold, none being bought and ending up like Newcastle is the end game. Then possibly after a few years of this it might work.

We have to somehow get dialogue open, it's the only thing that will work. Or get someone like Van Der Sar in to replace Ed, but not have him as a token, let him do the job.

They need to pay that debt off, and they need to invest in the ground and Carrington. I can't say they haven't spent money on the team, they have.

New owners will be the same, it's now a busines, and we old fans need to realise that a little, it's not like the good old days any more.
I'm not talking about supporters like you who have differing perspectives on the protests. I'm talking about a type of supporter that follows United through the official club accounts, laps up every social media post about doing better or getting them next time after an appalling display, buys from the official club shops, probably is a Martial or Pogba fanboy/girl and has a very officially approved and sanitized way to 'support' the club. They support United bc we were good once, but probably stopped watching during the Moyes/LvG eras.

Being a globally supported club is wonderful, and is a large reason why we're still financially afloat despite the Glazers, so I don't have a problem with that. Those are the supporters that the Glazers want, and if we're going to get rid of them, then royal we/MUST/whomever needs to mobilize those supporters against the Glazers.

How is dialogue even possible when they won't engage with supporters?
How is dialogue going to accomplish anything when they hold the local supporters in such contempt?

You're right, nothing that happens in Manchester will make a difference, if all it is is wearing green/gold, marching from the pub to the match, flying banners etc. What happens in Manchester will matter if it's the start of something bigger that spreads to the entire support base, if it engages government/FA/PL to legislate change on behalf of the supporters, or if it makes United unsponsorable, thereby devaluing the club and the Glazers realize the longer this continues the less the asset is worth.

One offs don't matter, but if this can be sustained, then it might be our best bet.
 
The issue is that at 3 of the clubs involved there is no real intention to remove the traitors Chelsea, City and Liverpool fans seem pretty content that the clubs owners have apologised and they are willing to forgive and forget. I thought the Liverpool fans might have seen this as a final straw with their owners but they don't really seem determined to make a big stand on this issue as for the large part their owners have been pretty good for the club.

Same can't be said at Utd, Arsenal and Spurs where fans haven't been happy for a while.

I guess the real question is how will the governing bodies react to the attempt to leave will it be a wrap across the knuckles and a warning or will their be serious consequences from the FA, PL and UEFA. Will this attempt to leave force the government to get involved and impose regulation on their industry?

The government left us high and dry in 2005 I suspect they'll leave us high and dry again they won't want to get involved in football
Liverpool surprise me, because Scousers aren't exactly against a good protest/t-shirt campaign/petition. City/Chelsea supporters know they're nothing without their owners and would never risk Abu Dhabi/Abramovich leaving. I think Spurs supporters were just shocked to see their club in with the elite and didn't know how to react.

The government won't act unless they're forced to act by the public. If this becomes sustained, and people are continually calling for legislative change, they might do something in the interests of self preservation. I think the money and tax revenues have grown so much in the last 16 years, that they might view football a bit differently than they did in 2005.
 
Liverpool surprise me, because Scousers aren't exactly against a good protest/t-shirt campaign/petition. City/Chelsea supporters know they're nothing without their owners and would never risk Abu Dhabi/Abramovich leaving. I think Spurs supporters were just shocked to see their club in with the elite and didn't know how to react.

The government won't act unless they're forced to act by the public. If this becomes sustained, and people are continually calling for legislative change, they might do something in the interests of self preservation. I think the money and tax revenues have grown so much in the last 16 years, that they might view football a bit differently than they did in 2005.

I think for Liverpool they’ve seen our side of the equation with hicks and gillet who almost bankrupt them FSG have made mistakes but they do actually engage with fans and they’ve had recent success. My guess is they are liking to forgive because their owners have actually been good for the club since they came and helped make them a force again on the pitch.

A conservative free market government isn’t going to increase regulation on any industry it goes totally against the parties political ideology. Now the super league is dead they’ll step back as they always do.

If you believe the rumours Boris gave Woodward approval when they met at number 10 it was only when they saw the public reaction that they came out against it. Boris and the politicians have no interest in football.
 
It wouldn't surprise me at all, but this is where public pressure can make a difference. It can dictate policy where the gov't know that if they don't act, they are going to get voted out. Make it clear to the politicians that these are not business in the strict sense, and they have a role in protecting the public interest.

Politicians generally don't care about the sporting aspect, but they sure care about the business side. What's to stop the Glazers from deciding they can get a better deal elsewhere and becoming Tax Free-State United? They can play in the Super League from Shanghai or whichever state will build them a stadium and give them tax breaks. If the governments don't put a stop to this, these owners will continue pushing the limits.
 
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This highlights the current issue for the owners over the last few years they’ve really struggle to grow the revenue as matchday and commercial have hit a ceiling and other clubs have started to close the gap on them.

Our advantage in the market as a result of the turnover has dwindled and while the club is still big enough to carry its debt this lack of growth has left it more exposed.

Utd used to be the kings of the sponsorship market but we are still using the same tricks from 15 years ago getting the same results.

That is a shocking read. Not only are they not generating revenue at pace with their competitors anymore, but the revenues that are generated are horribly mismanaged.

E0hZXSdWYAI0Ai_

1.073bn spend on the Glazers which is more than the 1.005bn spent on players. I don't know which is worse, (yes I do), spending all that money of a collection of mediocre/crap players or spending even more on the privilege of being owned by the Glazers. In theory, we could've had over 2bn to spend on players since 2005. Imagine had we just installed a proper DoF and spent this wisely...
 
I don’t think the protests are over wouldn’t rule out further disruption at the remaining games.

Lots of fans unhappy with Ole today but he’s in a tough spot can’t really speak out against his bosses.
 
I don’t think the protests are over wouldn’t rule out further disruption at the remaining games.

Lots of fans unhappy with Ole today but he’s in a tough spot can’t really speak out against his bosses.
These fans who want Ole to come out and crucify the Glazers and think his diplomacy is a sign of weakness or ‘selling out’ or ‘being a Glazer shill’ can do one. Fergie basically laid out the red carpet for the Glazers and that only gets mentioned in passing. Ole has had to manage up (the board and the Glazers/Ed) just as much as managing down (the players, assistants etc.) Not sure what people think will happen if he went full nuclear on them, other than getting sacked.
 
And he's probably crapping himself all his hard work this season will be undone.
They struggled to rearrange that match, any more and forfeit is the only option.

2 matches in 50 hours, then expect them to be ready for a European final, it's sabotage

He's right, if you're going to protest, do it peacefully, because all you're hurting are the team by getting matches postponed
 
I don’t think the protests are over wouldn’t rule out further disruption at the remaining games.

Lots of fans unhappy with Ole today but he’s in a tough spot can’t really speak out against his bosses.
Any MUFC supporter can speak out. Haven't heard Ole, or SAF or SBC either?
 
I don't think anyone with a role within the club has spoken out or can speak out. You or I wouldn't go bad mouthing our employees in the press regardless of how we felt. Neville can be so vocal because he's not a part of the club but he wasn't making these noises when he was a player.
 
Any MUFC supporter can speak out. Haven't heard Ole, or SAF or SBC either?

Well Sir Alex released a statement on the night the super league was announced condemning the idea making it clear he was not made aware of these plans.

Sir Bobby is suffering with Dementia so you won't hear from him on the issue.

You also won't hear from the current manager and players and really the anger over all this should not be aimed at them they don't control the way the club is run they're just trying to do their best on the pitch with what they've got.

Plenty of ex players who now work in the media have come out and condemned the clubs behaviour over the super league and also the way the club has been run but these are the guys no longer on the pay roll.
 
I think those who are really organising it want maximum disruption they don't really care what it means on the pitch they just want these owners gone if that means on the pitch we face fines and points deductions I don't think they care if it helps get rid of these owners.

They are focused on one outcome and that's driving these owners out and the only way that they feel this potentially happens is sustained pressure.

They are also targetting our sponsors online to the extent that teamviewers rating dropped to 1 star on trust pilot because the site was bombarded with bad reviews.
 
That's what I mean, if those people want us to be like Newcastle in 5 - 10 years time, fine. They will get that. It doesn't take long in football for a club to become a sleeping giant, a once big club. The situation needs to be managed properly, not jsut steam rollered.

However, most of the people on that football pitch didn't look old enough to even be supporting us when the Glazers took over. Looked like people wanting to cause a bit of trouble, what is snorting powder off the corner flag and posting on Social media got to do with removing the Glazers. They have no idea about the Edwards ownership, that the fans hated.

It infuriates me, we all hate the Glazer ownership, but we have to see it for it is and try and either get them to listen to the fans needs, or get them to sell (to probably someone equally as bad) tactics that just cause problems for our team are really annoying. And as I've said many times, that's all that will happen, players won't want to come, the club earns less money doesn't mean the Glazers get less, it means the playing staff and facilities get less spent on them.
 

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