Worried Turkey's Diaries

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All the memories are starting to come back(not that they ever went away)the televisions were starting to show clips of that fatal day twelve months ago....it wasn't twelve months surely...I'd done a lot of crying in that time and over the years there would be plenty more to do.We'd bought a t.v. in the meantime and now all that was appearing on the screen was pictures of a plane and images of the people(they weren't just people these were friends ,hero's....they were my gods)who had perished , and the people who had survived.looking back i look at what was taken from us ,and being selfish i wondered what would have happened had this unfortunate accident never happened .....just try and think what it was possibly like....then ask yourself what would United's history be like if it hadn't happened,would they have gone on to be the force they are now....would we have won the treble in 99....it made the Man United of today what it is.....me personally I'm selfish i would have given all this up just to have seen my hero's,my gods........my friends(for that is how they felt)play till the end of there careers,and me too have seen them.Then again, even now ,i still do in my mind and memory,and i really shouldn't begrudge the child and youth of today there memories.....anyway rant over,i digress
Thursday 5th Feb
Unc was round again at our house talking to mum,as usual i was told to go and play(normally on the railway lines..lol).Dad came home all smiles(he might have had wind)which was unusual (after all what have city fans got to smile about!!!) anyway Unc left just after dad arrived(funny how he always did that...),i got to watch a bit of T.V and that's when the newsreels started to show everything again,floods of tears came and i found myself wrapped around mam like a big baby...mum understood,even if she didn't have the slightest idea about football,what she did know was what it was like to lose somebody close....mam calmed me down and made tea ,(good old English trait)she then went on to explain that she'd packed a bag and i was going round to Unc's and going to school from there,well unc came and picked me up,old sour face wasn't happy but mam explained that unc wanted to go somewhere after school, so off we set to Gran's, unc was a bit silent his only concern was how did i feel... i couldn't really explain , it was an empty feeling...Smidge appeared from nowhere and the three of us went round to Gran's,we sat in the front room watching T.V.(gran and grandad had bought one not long ago)and watched the build up to tomorrow when again places would come to a stand still.............Smidge and Unc had a few bottles ,and arrangements were made for tomorrow....it was then that Unc explained i wouldn't be going to school .....................we were going to Old Trafford to pay our respects..........as tears came down (i thought it was just me at first,but Smidge supposedly had something in his eye and unc had to go too the loo..............)........ it was then that the images came back to me ,the likes of i see every year since......the busby babes being led by the great Duncan Edwards leading out a team that WOULD have ruled football for years to come...........in bed i could not sleep , all i did was replay games in my head that i'd seen,the greats who would be missed , and only in years after, could i come to terms with the price we paid for what we have now,and i for one am more grateful for this........then there's tomorrow to get through..........and this i will take you through next............
 
FEB 6th
Was it really 12 months ago that i was playing football on the local wreck,strutting around having scored goals that Dunc would have been proud of,when Unc came and gave us the bad news...!!!!
Unc came into the bedroom, i was already awake,washed and dressed,bob hat on(mam had thought of everything(although how she'd got my hat off me and washed it I'll never know)).It was dark and cold outside(6,30 am),and grandad was making up the fire (oh the days of the coal fire......magic(pain in the arse to start...but when they were going .....bliss)) . gran had made breakfast but for once i couldn't eat it.There was a strange and eerie silence about the house,what was normally vibrant was very sullen,and just little nods and gestures was enough to get by on. We weren't leaving till 10 o'clock,nobody had slept properly that night even gran and grandad who weren't football supporters as such , but they felt because we felt what today meant !.Time seemed to drag and minutes seemed like hours as 10 o'clock approached,my stomach was starting to tighten and knot and by 10 o'clock i was a mess then the order came ' come on it's time to meet Smidge' .Gran gave the old favourite 'wrap thee sen up warm tha know it's cold out'.....i think the snow told me that...it was at that moment she came and put her arms round me and held me close ....and with a tear in her eye said'remember to be strong...'............it's only later on in life i knew what she meant.
So off we set too meet Smidge,who as usual was late,off we set to the station and onto the train,we sat in silence as the train weaved down the tracks,i didn't even stick my head out of the window when we went through the tunnels so as the smoke could hit me ..(no electric trains in those days).....which was something i always did..!...you could have heard a pin drop in that carriage that day as we entered Warwick road station nobody moved...the train pulled in and the feeling was eerie ...and still nobody moved...are we going to get off or not....what seemed like minutes was really only seconds..then unc got up opened the door and then with relief and anxiety everybody descended onto the platform and looked over the wall down Warwick Road, tears started to well in the corner of not just mine but a sly look told me that Unc and Smidge was feeling the same too......the journey was about to begin. .......
 
Just a liitle something i found in my diaries that i made up but overlooked.

I ALWAYS REMEMBER THOSE POOR BOYS IN RED
ON A MUNICH RUNWAY SOME ALIVE AND SOME DEAD,
EVERY ONE A DIAMOND....A GEM
HOW COULD I EVER FORGET THEM.
THEY ATTACKED WITH GUILE
AND PLAYED WITH STYLE.
THEY'LL NEVER DESERT ME
IN MY MEMORY THEY'RE ALWAYS THEIR TO SEE......
FOR EVER AND EVER...................
MY HEROES.
 
Upon finding the last piece in a little book i used to keep i also found this.......i'm only realising i'm using this as an excuse to put off writing my next piece on the anniversary,till i can do it justice(my writing at the time wasn.t great) so trying to descipher my writing is hard, but in the meantime bear with me.....



February the 6th in '58
watching newsreels and papers,..we'd wait and wait
we'd watch and listen to see who'd died...
and waited and hoped for those who'd survived....

Tears flowed down a chapped little face...
hearing names lying dead on a cold winter waste...
the names of the dead tripped off the tongue...
Byrnes,Jones,Taylor. and Duncan wouldn't be long
Pegg,Coleman,Whelan and Bent.........
to the Old Trafford in the sky they'd been sent.

Twenty Three out of Forty Three had died that day......
on board the Elizabethan charter aircraft 'Lord Burghley'
The best trainer in britain Tom Curry Sir Matt had said
Walter Crickmor and Bert Whalley where amongst the dead...

Sir Matt himself fought for his life in a hospital bed...
but he fought and he lived like a true fighting red....

Where would we go from this?........................
I don't really know but it's a journey i don't want to miss............
 
Good read on Bosnich. Very depressing read 4 Munich posts. Don't wanna go 2 bed w/ those images in my head. But, it needed posting so thanx 4 your memories WT. Can hardly wait 4 Nobby Stiles, not rushing though, take your time. I don't have the patience 2 do what you do so I will wait. haha GGMU
 
This deviledspam is just for you ...............i hope you enjoy

Norbert "Nobby" Peter Stiles MBE (born 18 May 1942 in Collyhurst, Manchester)
Stiles grew up in Collyhurst, a working class area that people never forgot where they came from and had a spirit of togetherness and Nobby was no exception. He was a Manchester united supporter like a lot of kids from where he lived , his talent was swiftly recognised at the age of 15 when he achieved his ambition and United offered him an apprenticeship and he also played for England schoolboys in September 1959.He was an unlikely-looking footballer in many ways - he was very small, at a time when teenagers were being rejected by clubs purely because of their lack of height; he also wore dentures that he used to take out and have a big gap at the front that used to scare forwards to bits,only cos they thought they were being chased by a vampire...........lol , this was due to having his teeth ripped out during a game....(soft in them days...eh!!); he became significantly bald at a young age and sported a dramatic comb-over; and he was also severely shortsighted, meaning he needed strong contact lenses when playing and wore thick spectacles off the field.
Unable to hold down a regular place in the first team as an inside-forward, he took action. Analysing his strengths and weaknesses, Stiles realised that he might thrive in a defensive role.Nobby was quick and over short distances say 10 -15 yds there was nobody to touch him for speed but the one thing he did have was a defensive mind and could read a game superbly.
Nevertheless, Manchester United manager Matt Busby saw something in the tenacious youngster. Stiles was given his debut as a full back in October 1960 against Bolton Wanderers
Stiles Played a simple game it was to win the ball at all costs and pass to the likes of crerand he became one of the best 'holding ' midfielders of his day(well there weren't any others really) a rarity at a time when forward lines consisted of five players and the midfield was restricted to covering half-backs. Stiles was deployed in the middle of the park to snuff out the flair and peril of creative opponents, and this he did with much success.It was through Nobby and his ability to get possession of the ball and keep it that the likes of Besty and Charlton got the room and as much of the ball as possible.
Then, in 1964, circumstances intervened: Stiles was given a chance to stake a claim for a position alongside Bill Foulkes, United's veteran centre-half. The challenge was a tough one: to mark Jimmy Greaves, the most prolific goalscorer in English football.
After the game, which Manchester United won, Matt Busby praised Stiles' performance. It was the turning point in his career; he was now an automatic choice – a development that brought him to the attention of Alf Ramsey.
Stiles impressed with his whole-hearted commitment and Ramsey kept him in the England side for eight of the following nine fixtures. As the 1966 World Cup hosts prepared for the tournament, Stiles scored the winner against West Germany in the process and cemented his place in England's midfield. His 15Th cap followed in England's opening World Cup group game against Uruguay, but it ended in a frustrating goalless stalemate.

As the tournament progressed, England found some momentum with Stiles ever-present as the Three Lions defeated Mexico and France before knocking out Argentina in a famously tough quarter final tie.
The three best games i saw Nobby play was the semi-final of the World cup against Portugal where he man marked Eusebio who at the time was the leading scorer in the World cup,and Nobby had him in his pocket,it got to a stage where Eusebio was going to the edge of his own box to get the ball and hitting hopeful 50yd passes, the next was the World cup final itself where he was like a man possessed he got everyone going, there was no slacking under Nobby and no matter how big in stature or in name if you weren't doing your job Nobby let you know in no uncertain terms, and third and far from least was the European cup final in 68,i will never ever forget his jig after the World cup final and the toothless smile but for me night of all nights was May 28th 1968 (Kiddo's birthday)the stint that the wee man put in that night was unbelievable,again he man marked Eusebio out of the game(except for the split sec he shot that Stepney saved) but that wasn't Nobby's fault he was stuck with two to mark and he was unlucky....the celebration after the game will live in my memory for ever Nobby with his Benfica shirt tied round his neck with the biggest smile possible giving Sir Matt a hug that nearly killed him..........precious...
I'll also never forget an interview during the World cup when Sir Alf Ramsey was giving a television interview and Nobby walked past still with his number 4 shirt on and Sir Alf looked up and pointed at Nobby and said " there gentlemen, is an Englishman"....which indeed coming from Sir Alf was the highest praise one could achieve.
After losing his regular England place to Tottenham's Alan Mullery, Stiles went on to win caps sporadically until 1970 - just 28 in total - as the curtain came down on a brief but glorious England career.
I was privileged to see Nobby's first game for United at Bolton , and was also at his last game on April the 13th in a 2-1 defeat at Coventry in 1971,I was also lucky enough to have a long conversation with him some years ago,he always was ,is ,and always will be a staunch red,there was no malice in him for why United got rid of him from his coaching job,a bit upset but then who wouldn't be....i asked a lot of questions, but the one i will always remember was about the cup final in 63 , Nobby had played in about 34,35 games for United that season and come cup-final day he was told by Sir Matt that he wouldn't be playing....i asked how that felt....and his reply was one I'll never forget....."United won..it was brilliant...the boss picked the right side on the day...."
I could go on about Nobby's career after he left United.....but i won't , i would just like to say.......Thank You to a true red and a man that gave his all for the cause...........
 
Thanx 4 that WT. I really wanted 2 know more on Stiles after he had 2 sell his medals. He sounds genuinely decent human being and I'm glad the Glazers allowed club 2 purchase his memorabilia. Heres a vid of the Euro Cup 68....

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Well of we set with a heavy heart as we walked up Warwick rd,the memories of Munich came flooding back,players being remembered as if it was yesterday,the likes of big Dunc,Peggy and little Liam stood outside the players entrance signing autographs and spending time talking to fans like mates....Sir Matt coming out and telling them to get in and get changed....it was all coming back,as we walked down over the bridge just before coming on to the forecourt i looked up at those floodlights and remembered the first time I'd seen them and how it seemed like ages before my sight got to the top of them and how so much light came from them that it made you blink just looking.Then as we walked onto the forecourt people were there to pay there respects as we were and none of the men were wearing caps or trilby's,they were all held in hand while they bowed there heads and whispered there respects before shedding tears and moving on.
Then the memories of being at Old Trafford 12 months prior , Manchester mourned as the bodies of its famous footballing heroes were flown home to lie overnight in the gymnasium under the main grandstand before being passed on to relatives for the funerals. Today that gymnasium is the place where the players' lounge has been built, where those who succeeded the Babes gather after a game for a chat and a drink with the opposition.
Thousands of supporters turned out to pay their last respects. Where families requested that funerals should be private, the United followers stayed away from gravesides but lined the route to look on in tearful silence as corteges passed. I was outside when hearse after hearse left O.T.as thousands stood with heads bowed and all to a man just didn't know what to do other than stand there and weep....
The thing was It wasn't just Manchester United, it was the city of Manchester that was affected (Frank Swift one of the great City keeper's had perished as well)and in general all football was affected.

The biggest funeral at the time was for a Daily Express reporter called Henry Rose who in his day was a great read and followed United to all there games . A thousand taxi drivers offered their services free to anyone who was going to the funeral and there was a six-mile queue to Manchester's Southern Cemetery. The cortege halted for a moment outside the Daily Express offices in Great Ancoats Street where Desmond Hackett wrote in the style of Henry:
`Even the skies wept for Henry Rose today.....'
As these memories came back i remember March 8th against West Brom a message was played over the tannoy before the start of the game "women wept as the tape-recorded voice of Matt Busby echoed across a packed and silent Old Trafford".i was brought back down to earth by Smidge and Unc,it was there and during the time of thought we decided there and then...that on Feb 6th every year we would come back and pay our respects....and then Unc said" That's it, i will never watch a United game on the 6th of Feb.....it just wouldn't be right".....it was at that moment we all agreed the same ..........to this day I've been to O.T every 6th and never once have i seen a game (any game )on that day....after my visit i lock myself away with my thoughts and memories and listening to the flowers of Manchester.....i am lucky in that i have a very understanding wife.
I look at what Munich's legacy is and when you look it has got to be the club,lets have it right we're one of the biggest clubs in the world,if not the biggest,we're also a club that is loved and hated in equal measures especially in England .....My one last thought rightly or wrongly and it is only an old mans thought.................THE BUSBY BABES MADE MANCHESTER UNITED WHAT THEY ARE TODAY.......... sorry these are the ramblings of an old man and I'm sorry to have foisted my thoughts on the younger end ..United started there history from the day they were formed and Munich is only part of it and i think now possibly enough has been said......i have countless poems and thoughts from that time all made by a young lad with only United in his heart and mind...too all that have taken time to read and comment thank you....
 
Your nostalgia is understood & appreciated love. Must say you seemingly have a better memory than I so you can cut the old man stuff. Your as young as you feel & with your way of prose, I can visualize & feel your memory as if my own. So please continue, its much appreciated. Let me know if your looking for another player 2 bio. I got 1 thats connected w/ the forum quiz. GGMU
 
After the the the day of going to O.T to pay our respects United played Spurs away where they won 3-1,from then on United went on to win 10 more games and losing 3 with only 1 drawn,this being the season after the tragic event of Munich we had really excelled ourselves by finishing runners-up to one of the good sides of Wolves,We had managed to go out of the F.A.Cup at the first hurdle to Norwich,on a whole the season had been good,our football at times was breathtaking but that was a height to which understandingly we could not keep to, i found that one or two players still carried over the memories of the previous season and played as though they didn't really believe,unfortunately for United this would carry on for a couple of seasons.
Sir Matt when he came back was not the man who flew to Partizan over twelve months ago, which was understandable ,if one man suffered more than most it was him,he had lost nearly everything,his sons ,his role models and his belief which would take more than just the removal of bandages and cuts to heal,he had some-thing that would never go away,he was the one who had taken his beloved Manchester United into Europe,he had defied the football association and had pushed for the gateway to a European competition that really needed the likes of Manchester United,yes i know that Hearts were the first British side to enter, and yes i know that Celtic were the first British side to win it,but ask Europe and it's always Manchester United that are remembered and mentioned,all because of Sir Matt, he was the one on whose shoulders and mind Munich would always be,he shouldered the burden right up to his death.For him to have bared the burden for so long and still managed to make Manchester United great again showed just what a man he was.
The next season would take us into the sixties which i would be glad about(not the football that i was about to witness for a couple of seasons)but glad to get the fifties out of the way,it's surprising how going from one decade to another that the mind changes and hopes spring eternal.........unlike United it only lasts for 24 hours...with that i leave you......

DID YOU KNOW....
United have had three 17 year olds capped by Northern Ireland
Jimmy Nicholson 17 yrs 256 days
George Best 17 yrs 328 days
Sammy McIlroy 17 yrs 356 days
 
Great read again WT always enjoyable !whens your book out mate :)

Look 4ward to the next one especially the 60's
 
The 59'60 season was upon us in no time,this was going to be our hardest season for years.Last season because of the disaster fans were all on our side,opposition fans looked at United with great sympathy possibly because they never wanted themselves to be in the position that we had found ourselves in.When we visited away grounds we tugged at there heart strings because nobody really wanted to beat us ,but obviously didn't want to lose, but there was a sympathy that you could feel crawling round the grounds as kick off time got closer.United had played last season on adrenaline and a wave of hope.The players got through 90 mins and deflated as the final whistle blew,every game last season had been hard to play especially for the players who had survived Munich,events were still fresh in the memory(too a fan they still are,but as years go on the feelings don't get any less,just more bearable)....This season was going to be different,the sympathy would still be with us ..but we would have to really earn our victories this year.
Looking back at the 50's besides football,i remember the coal fires that you used to come home too,where smoke billowed out of every chimney, and every morning smelt like the morning after bonfire night.or the coal man with his horse and cart dirty faced and his coal sack over his shoulder....looking up at the moon wondering if there was life up there (we'd never know would we?)...knowing somebody who was lucky (or rich enough)to own a T.V..Trains going to O.T ...spewing out copious amounts of smoke where kids(me especially)would shove there heads out of the train window in the tunnel to get the shitty smell and a face full of bits as you sped along at 50-60mph,Cinder pitches where a good sliding tackle took the skin of your leg and left bits of cinder in there that you would be picking out for a good few days...
So what did the 60's offer....erm..better stadiums (66 world cup) under soil heating,covered grounds....and proper football boots(not ones with leather studs that came out and when you put them back the nails came through the sole into your foot.....was it sore ,or was it sore)...
Also looking back to the 50's it really was a great time to be a United fan,we'd won the league and we had the makings of a great side who was set to rule English football for years to come, who had gone into Europe and done relatively well,we were learning with every game and was getting to the stage of not if , but when we'd win the European cup,but as with everything in life ..euphoric highs were accompanied with mind numbing lows and it was the United fans in the fifties suffered more than most ....So it was with happier heart that the sixties was about to entered,we as United fans were looking forward to ruling the roost and Sir Matt Busby building another championship winning side.................oh how little did i know how long that would take !!!!

DID YOU KNOW...
Wayne Rooney is the youngest England goalscorer ever.aged 17 yrs and 317 days against Macedonia in 2003
 
worried turkey i envy you m8 if you seen the great duncan edwards play. as sir bobby charlton once said hes the only player hes ever felt inferior to great read m8
 
Well the 59-60 season started with a 3-2 defeat at West Brom and to make matters worse we were beaten at home 4 days later by Chelsea 1-0,it wasn't that we weren't playing well but it was as though once behind we didn't have a clue,it was going to be a long season one felt...then 3 days later we played Newcastle at home and we got in front early and managed to hold on for a 3-2 win...could this be the turning point...of course!!!
Next up was Chelsea away time for revenge.....and it was so sweet,we played some really good football that had the papers next day(Thursday)purring with Bradley netting 2,Viollet getting a brace and Charlton and Quixall also getting on the score sheet,we ran out 6-3 winners..Saturday would bring Birmingham away and with another point in the bag with a 1-1 draw things were looking up,we had Leeds next on the Wednesday night..god i loved(still do)night games,where you could see those floodlights from miles away throwing off so much light as they towered into the black night sky,where smoke drifted across and was shown up like a blanket.....memories.....loved it!!United went for the jugular that night and played football that was only seen in comics.... IE ...Roy of the rovers,Bradley was again in the goals getting another 2,Charlton netted twice with Scanlon and Viollet completing the scoring as we ran out rampant 6-0 winners.....as we left the ground the talk was of could we win the league,being the eternal optimists we all thought this was going to be our year...just wait till Spurs came on Saturday we would wipe the floor with them!
How to come down to earth with an almighty bump....Spurs came to Old Trafford on the Saturday we were ready we were on a good run they would suffer....i remember walking out of the ground after the game thinking....what the hell happened,,Spurs played football that was mesmerising....OK we weren't great and in all honesty i didn't think we weren't to bad but every pass Spurs did came off,Cope got a bit of a run around and Mcguinness didn't have on of his better games,if it hadn't been for Harry Gregg it would have been far worse,but even so 5-1 it was still a bitter pill to swallow.....with Leeds away on Wednesday and the Noisy neighbours away next Saturday i feared the worst......
Boy i wasn't wrong , although we managed to get a late draw against Leeds we got turned over big style by(them that shall not be mentioned)3-0,again if it hadn't been for Greggy it would have been more embarrassing than it was..this was what our season was going to be like...world beaters one minute the rags the next by the end of the calendar year we had 25 points lying in 5Th place which wasn't too bad...if we could just put a good run together we would still be in with a chance....
we'd swapped and changed a few times during the season,Cope had played right and left back,Big Bill(Foulkes)had played centre half and right back Brennan had come in now and again,Gaskell(keeper) had come in for a few games Johnny Giles and Maurice setters had come in...(we shouldn't have let Giles go when we did) Maurice had the face of a boxer and the left foot of one,,(sorry mo)but he was one if you got past him and was still breathing you'd done bloody well !!! ....
So coming into the 1960's we were there and there abouts , we still had 55,000 plus attending our home games we were still playing the United way which was you score 3 we'll score 4,not that we always did but that was our mentality..so would the second half of the season be better or not...we'll see....and i only missed 1 home match that season....and I'll tell you why later....plus a few other things that is nowadays looked at and taken for granted.....


DID YOU KNOW....
Neil Webb only scored 4 goals for United in 104 games , but he scored for Utd on his debut in 4 different competitions.....the league,league cup,European cup winners cup and the F.A.Cup
 
Thanks WT memory serves me right wernt Spurs a class team early 60's ? not that I was born in 1960 :)
 
LOVE it WT! I swear I'm gonna download these memories 2 my Kindle. Great read pre-game day 2 get ya hyped! Can't wait 4 JAWS Jordan. I know you'll do him justice. Til then babe. Keep em coming!
 
Well the 59-60 season was entering the second half,we started the new year like a yo-yo more downs than ups,first off was a 7-3 defeat at Newcastle followed by a couple of decent results with wins at Derby and at home to Birmingham,and although we were getting the odd results in our favour our overall football was just not United we didn't seem to be able to get all the team playing well at the same time it was somewhat of a disjointed affair,but as always we put our trust in Sir Matt,eventually he would get it right.Thankfully we put one of our better performances in our next game Liverpool away in the 4th round of the F.A.Cup,and even though they were a second division side we were convincing 3-1 winners with Bobby getting a couple and Bradders (Bradley)nettinmg the other ,we spurned enough chances to have won by a cricket score but the pleasing thing was the football performance was a United performance,and the timing was right as we had City next.
Come the derby and i was up ready met Unc and the rest and Old Trafford here we come.
As i said in my last piece i missed 1 home game all season....this was it...the reason being .. it was FEB 6th.As we stood on forecourt and looked up at those massive pylons it was eerie,this was the first occassion that a match had been played on this date and a derby at that,this was the one to test our resolve,would anyone break the pact that we'd made...
There was nearly 60,000 in the ground that day and as i stood on that forecourt i'm sure that everyone of them brushed past me pushing me closer to the turnstiles....i remember looking round at Unc hoping that one would make a move and break the rule so as for us all to go in...it was then that Unc said"go on if you want.i'll wait for you here..." with that i did take a few steps towards the turnstiles and just then i stopped and looked round and looking at the faces of Unc and the rest of the lads i quickly turned round and went and stood at their side that was it noway will i ever question myself again..
It was while being outside that i noticed a person and his daughter also stood looking at the players entrance with eyes that were distant and at the same time expectant he stayed there for some 30 minutes before putting his flat cap back on and taking his daughters hand and leading her back up Warwick rd against the tide of supporters coming down to go in the game,it was later that i learnt his name (George harley)because was to bump into him for a few years on this date,sadley George passed away in the seventies...George never went to watch United again after the Munich air disaster because as he said the memories and the ghosts of those players would spoil it for him to watch the present teams...sad but something i'll never forget. It was weird stood outside while a game was going on listening to the oooohhh's and aaaahhhh'ss not something i wanted to do again,so it was there and then i thought i would come early next time a game was on this day.
The derby ended in a goal-less draw.the following week we entertained Preston (but not the crowd) in a boring 1-1 draw,it was one of those games where we couldn't string 2 passes together,it could only get better against Sheff Wed the following week at home.....ohhh noo it couldn't we were abysmal we couldn't even put 1 pass this week...we went down 1-0 to a side that though at the end of the season finshed two places above us where not at that time playing well themselves.Another dismal performance and a 3-1 mauling on the Wednesday night against Leicester and things were getting no better......Sir Matt would sort it out...we had faith..
Well tommorrow was another day....i would not be going to school again i would be going to Old Trafford for a special day....(it had to be for me to be let off school(though dad didn't know and god help it if he found out !))...what was the occassion ...well it's there for all to see..
 
JOE JORDAN

Joe Jordan was spotted at the age of 15 by a Leeds scout while playing with Morton, who recommended him to manager Don Revie who bought him for £15,000 in 1970. Joe was a strong, courageous and potent, young striker and in 1973 managed 16 League starts and scored nine goals, although he missed the Cup Final defeat by Sunderland. The following season Leeds coasted towards the League title with Joe scoring seven goals in 25 League games. He was in the team that lost the 1975 European Cup final 2-0 to Bayern Munich. In early 1978, after 135 League appearances and 39 goals Joe moved to Manchester United for £350,000. At United, he reached the FA Cup final in 1979 which they lost 3-2 to Arsenal and two seasons later made a surprise move to AC Milan where he earned the nickname 'Lo Squalo' (the shark).

After leaving Milan he played for Hellas Verona before returning to England to join Southampton in 1984, finishing his playing days at Bristol City, for whom he was also player-manager for a spell. His Scottish international career ended with 52 appearances and yielded ten goals, along the way equalling Kenny Dalglish's record of scoring at three World Cups

That is a run down of Joe's career but ...and a big but is that it does not reveal how Joe was loved by fans wherever he played,he was a player you could relate to,one minute he'd conjure a goal out of nothing,next he,d put it over the top from 6 yds with the keeper beaten(rare but I'd seen him do that),Joe gave everything in every game whether it be good bad or indifferent,he would walk round the pitch snarling at players who weren't pulling there weight....and there was no more fearsome sight than a snarling Joe Jordan,no front teeth a mop of long black hair,short sleeves even in the throe's of winter bearing down on you..!!!
Joe was a mans man(which most probably meant that when he got home he did the washing up and gave a 'yes love' 'no love' to his misses....lol)he would leave the odd foot in at a tackle he would throw out the odd elbow to let defenders know he was there,never malicious but just enough for them to remember it wasn't going to be easy with him around.
Joe made his debut in the 4Th round of the F.A.Cup where we played 5 forwards that day with Pancho Pearson.little Lou(Macari),Stevie Coppell and slippery Gordan Hill we drew 1-1 with Stevie getting United's goal...the replay was 4 days later we lost 3-2...it was 8 games before Joe got off the mark in a 2-2 draw with Newcastle,overall Joe played 125 times for United netting 41 times,but it was more what he brought to the team in ways of fighting spirit that he will be remembered for.Joe scored on his last game for United in a 1-0 win over Norwich in 1981,the team had changed a bit in that 3 1/2 seasons he had been with us,little Lou was still up front but they had been joined by Gary Birtles and Ray (the crab)Wilkins,it was a surprise when Joe left to go to A.C.Milan but he left with well wishes of all United fans and football supporters alike...so it was goodbye 'Jaws' 'The Shark' 'The human Battering Ram'...in fact call him what you want just don't call him soft........
 
YES, he's the type of player I like. Tough b/ not dirty, no-nonsense, lets get this shet done leader. lol @ your description of a mans man, WT. Our opinion differs on that. A mans man can get the job done @ work & home, having his missus singing Yes Sir! Yes Sir! haha B/ thats just my female POV. Good read WT, who's next?
 
whoever you wish dev...there is only you who has asked for anyone recently.........
 
Nicely put WT Joe Jordan was much loved on the terraces & his snarling was funny to see especially the opposing defenders.One thing always gave 100% for the team & Hansen didnt like marking him :)
 
JUST FOR YOU SEA.............

NORMAN WHITESIDE (born 7 May 1965)


Norman played 256 times for United scoring 67 times,i remember Norman making his debut against Brighton away in April of 82(1982....not 1882..i'm not that bloody old even if i feel it!!!) and his last game was away at Southampton in a 2-1 defeat in May of '89...
Norman was unfortunate in numerous ways....he always put his body on the line , thus bringing his football life down,he was also a bit of a drinker...which is alright in moderation but not the way that some of the players put it down in those days...(too which i can tell you through witnessing it myself was professional...)
Norman was one of the best midfield players to have worn a United shirt i can think of,he was a player who if he had looked after himself and hadn't got into the drink culture(he did a Besty in the effect that he wanted to be the best at everything..ie football,drinking etc..)would have gone on to be one of the greats.If Norman had have gone on to fulfill what was going to be a great future people like Keane,Robson..even the great Eric would have been second names....Whiteside would have been the first on peoples lips...that is how high i rate Norman.Cup finals with 10 men wasn't the case when Norman was in your side,we started with 12 because he was in ours.........teams were scared to death of this beast of a man,he feared no one.....i remember going to anfield when the hub cap stealing b*st*rds were in there pomp and he stood on the half way line and looked at them as if too say 'who the f*ck do you think you are' it lifted United so much(Jan 84 1-1 Norman scored....i couldn't shout i was in the kop....but god did i feel great...yeeeeessssss!!)
Norman for a young man(to me......no funny remarks please..!!)walks with a slight unease nowadays as do most footballers of those era's due to injections to play and also playing through the pain barrier that they did.Norman was a United fan as well as player and put his body on the line a lot of times.Norman played in the same side as Arnold Muhren who i thought was a master we got to late but who taught Whiteside a lot in the way of patience and when to release the defence killing pass.....do we miss someone like him today..do we.Norman could one minute be on the edge of the box breaking down a move to being on the end of a pass scoring..... a lot of people said Norman was slow but i beg to differ..his strides were long therefore he never looked as though he was burning up the grass(Berba anyone...?)but like all good players you don't remember where they come from....but they're there.
Norman represented N.Ireland in 2 world cups he was the youngest player ever to take part in the World cup,he won 2 F.A.Cups with United in 83 and 85...sadly due to the drink culture at Old Trafford at the time Norman was one of the ones to go where he went to Everton,his career was sadly curtailed at the tender age of 26 because of knee injuries...
Norman was a like able lad....still is if you can afford exec prices to listen to him on match days....like a lot of footballers that we used to recruit from Ireland they and him were proud to play for United and wore their red shirts with pride...and with Norman you could see to him it was 'i.m United you have to get through me first to get near our goal....'
He was a man amongst boys at times and a man you always wanted on your side....THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES
 
Norman the biggest 16 yr old I'd ever seen awesome,big,powerful & built like a brick shithouse.I can still see him now turning Hansen & Lawrenson on the edge of the box before scoring @Wembley in the Milk Cup final to go 1 up, to unfortnately lose 2-1.Stapleton playing in defence and Grobbelaer should of been sent off,before a lucky Whelan strike jammy bastards,not bitter thou ;)
 
But how can I forget this with 10 men

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On February the 25h 1960 the memorials to the players and staff of Manchester United who lost there lives at Munich The first was unveiled above the entrance to the directors box ,this was a plaque in the shape of a stadium and in it was the image of a green pitch.Inscribed on the pitch was the name of the victims in black and gold glass.
Above the plaque was a wood carving of a supporter and a player with heads bowed stood either side of a wreath and a football upon which was inscribed '1958' This was unveiled by the late Sir Matt Busby,i or really Unc was to find out about the unveiling and had decided to come to Old Trafford on the chance of being there bto which we not disappointed.
The plaque had cost the costly sum of £2,100,which was a lot of money then.It was designed by J.Vipond an architect from Manchester,it was made by a Manchester firm Messrs Jaconello.
The eight members of press who had lost there lives at Munich had also had a Bronze plaque unveiled with the names of the eight victims,this was unveiled by a great writer who actually survived the crash, Frank Taylor who represented the football writers association.unfortunately this was later stolen in 1980,which was replaced by one similar and was placed behind the counter to the press entrance.
Last but far from the least was the last memorial 'the famous Munich clock' something that would be looked at and stared at by millions and the one memorial which through it's simplicity, and what it stands for, gives me goose bumps and a tear even after all these years,for those who have never had the good fortune to stand and gaze at this memorial,it is a simple two faced clock attached to the south-east corner of the stadium,with the date'Feb 6th 1958' visible at the top of both faces and running along the bottom of both faces is the word 'Munich' .The clock has remained in the same position since it's unveiling on Feb 25th 1960 ,the clock was unveiled by the chairman of the ground committee Dan Marsden ,as it was the ground committee who paid for the last memorial to be unveiled....
As we walked away from Old Trafford i couldn't help but feel a little tear welling up in the corner of my eye,but also a feeling of gratitude and thankfulness,........gratitude because though of tender years, i had seen my heroes and till the memory goes,it is something that will always be with me.........thankfulness ,just because of those memorials especially the clock,because if it just makes one little child ask what it's for, a proud parent will be able to take just 5 minutes of his or her time to tell a little child, a bit of United's history and if it makes that child want to learn a bit more.......................
 
But how can I forget this with 10 men

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haha that was CLASS! I just love players from the 70-80's era, they seem bigger & more masculine.
 
Thanx 4 that WT. It may seem we take for granted the emotional effort it takes to revisit these memories b/ I'm sure all appreciate your posts. I have some1 you could give history on. How about Andrei Kanchelskis? I prefer my Giggsy b/ Kanchelski was a class winger. I think you were gonna do a post on him earlier b/ probably forgot. Take ya X & like always its much appreciated.
 
Sorry for taking so long SEA hope you enjoy.

SIR BOBBY CHARLTON.
Sir Bobby was born in the village of Ashington on the 11th of October 1937(Northumberland).Most of Bobby's family were some way related too football.His mother Cissie was the cousin of 'wor Jackie'Milburn the famous Newcastle and England centre forward,who really was a legend in those days.Bobby's uncles and grandfather were all professional footballers,three of them played for Leeds united while the fourth played for Leicester city.So you could say it ran in the family and Bobby was destined to play professional football.
Bobby was spotted on a misty day in February 1953 by the scout Joe Armstrong,joe said'i had too peer through the mist but what i saw was enough,this boy was going to be a world beater'.United had to make a move because numerous teams were after him,Sit Matt worked his magic and Bobby signed for his beloved Manchester United.
Bobby became a member of the famous 'Busby Babes'and played in the successful F.A. Youth cup sides of 1954,55,56...It was in 1956 that Bobby made his full debut for Manchester United against Charlton Athletic in a 4-2 victory where Bobby scored two goals,(6th October ).
We all know the trauma that Bobby went through after Munich.He was a haunted man for a long time,the glisten in his eyes went,as did his hair,which up till Munich had been plentiful.I remember listening to Sir Bobby at a charity sports dinner some years ago and Munich was brought up in the questions and iv'e never seen a persons shoulders sag so quick,what he did say that night though was that up till Munich football was sheer enjoyment but afterwards it just became a job and though he still enjoyed playing it was never the same.
Bobby was lucky too have survived at Munich,(as was anybody from that crash)and afterwards went on to win almost everything there was to win in the game,he won an F.A.Cup medal,Three league championship winning medals a European cup winning medal and he was voted European player of the year in 1966 and too cap it all(106 of them!!)he won the World cup with England in 1966(just in case you'd forgot that one..lol)
Bobby played in 4 world cup finals,58,62,66 and 1970 in all as i have already said Sir Bobby amassed 106 caps and scored 49 goals for England,after saying all that and winning all that was possible Sir Bobby remained 'Bobby'he changed very little from the young lad i saw,he was a football machine,his skills were never in doubt,he didn't run he 'glided' he could pass players on either side of them and leave them for dead,he had tremendous balance ,i've seen players trying to kick seven lumps of shit out of him as he's gone past them and he just rolled with the tackle and picked up speed and was gone,he was so graceful it was unbelievable,though not the best header of a ball he practicedand did get better(that glancing header in the 1968 European cup final was superb...)Bobby was also so athletic he seemed to be able to run non stop and at 90 mins was still going as though the game had just started,but most of all and what Sir Bobby was well known for was his shot,it was like a bullet from a gun where he could hit it at a range of anywhere up to 35 yds and it would still be rising when it hit the back of the net(god help you though if his radar was slightly off,many a few games he had the crowd ducking......no not me this time!!)
Ever since Bobby made his debut he was the ultimate professional he had one goal(two if you include the one he used to shoot at)in his career and that was to make United the best and if it meant upsetting people in the dressing room with his honesty then so be it,off what i've heard and people (ex pro's who used to play with Bobby)some didn't like his obsession about the way United played the game or his closeness to Busby,but if Bobby had one fault it was that he couldn't understand that not everyone wasn't as good or couldn't find the game as easy as him,i personally think that was why he never made a good manager.
I remember 'Big' Bill Foulkes telling me that Bobby never lost his temper on the pitch but 'boy' could he lose it of it,as i found one day when i caddied for Bill at a City v United golf match organised by Bobby and because he shanked a shot he came out with a right mouthful and nearly bent his club with the force he slammed it into the ground....i think it was only Mike Doyle(city captain and the biggest United hater i have ever known(someone i once made look a fool..lol))laughing that made Bobby regain his composure so quick and get on with his game.....but that was Bobby,he wanted to do, not the best,but to the best of his ability.
Some of my best memory's was of Bobby going down the left wing(a position he didn't like playing but one that Sir Matt insisted he played because it was for the good of United,it was later that Bobby played inside forward and centre forward,but in all honesty he was dangerous wherever he played.)
i have gone on long enough about Bobby,in fact i could go on a lot more but i don't want to bore you too much,but i will just finish by saying 'Roy of the Rovers' won everything as a comic book hero......Bobby Charlton was the real thing..
GOD BLESS YOU BOBBY AND THANK YOU !!!!!
 
February 27th 1960 brought my first visit to Blackpool to watch United,as a special treat we went on Friday night and stayed in a caravan that Smidge had borrowed from a friend,(well i stayed in the 'van them boozing sods went out on the town leaving me and a mate in,(which we didn't, we went out and had a walk down the front and got a 6d bag of chips in newspaper(why oh why did they always taste better out of newspaper...?).Teddy boys were out in force with there enormous quiffs sculptured by either brylcreem or tru-gel(those were the days...even i had hair then.....(god memories..lol)).
Looking back on the fifties the memories come flooding back....Wimpy bars opened in 1955,the yo-yo craze where they used to have comps on the stage of the pictures before the Saturday morning matinee.ITV was launched in 55 where commercials included 'a double diamond works wonders'...well it did for me!!.....fish fingers came in(frozen)in the 50's....six five special began in 57,James dean....Elvis...Marilyn Monroe (cooorr!!!!)..hula hoops...sooty..woodentops..andy pandy.....Grandstand started on TV in 1958..Donald Campbell set the world land speed record at 260 mph.Mike Hawthorn became the first Briton to win the world motor racing championship..mount Everest was breached for the first time (Edmond Hillary) Roger Bannister broke the four minute mile...rationing finished in 1954 ,9 years after the war had ended...picnic and galaxy...wagon wheels..Opel fruits ...munchies..all came out in 50's...Daz...Tide...Omo..Fairey snow..turf..all washing detergents....tony the tiger with Kellogg's frosted flakes....tetley's tea bags...maxwell house instant coffee and possibly the best....andrex soft toilet paper (didn't half beat them squares of newspaper hung on a nail in the outside loo...(bloody cold in winter..(and used to be fed up of dusting off the white wash from your jumper when you touched the walls)))
Music included Elvis...Lonnie Donegan..the platters..Russ Conway..Alma Cogan..Doris Day...Frankie Vaughan...Bill Haley and the Comets...Cliff Richard(and old swine's still going...if i'd have done him in i'd have been out by now!!)
T.V shows like Crackerjack...take your pick...beat the clock..the army game..Phil Silvers
comics came in such as Topper..T.V Fun..Tiger...Beezer
The lone Ranger on his horse ......Silver...who was that masked man?...hi ho Silver awaaay the kids used to shout as they came out of Saturday morning matinees..... parents were moaned at for Davey Crockett hats..Clint Eastwood was there on our screens in Rawhide.....and this all started from seeing a bunch off teddy boys !!!!
Anyway as i was saying...my first time at Bloomfield rd and what a week-end that was,eating chips out of paper as we walked along the front dodging the sea spray as it battered against the sea wall sounding angry and trying as it might to lure two unsuspecting kids to a watery grave.pretending to be asleep when unc ,unc's mate(cannot for the life of me remember his name.....old age) and smidge came back three sheets to the wind banging and clattering around(don't worry i'll get my own back in the morn.....noisy b*st*rds)
Morning came and we were up with the lark (our turn to be noisy now)we were bombarded by cushions fag packets anything that came to hand.....did they have sore heads.....no sympathy self inflicted....hahaha.Eventually they arose,cup of coffee 4 or 5 fags and we were off,scarf..check,bob hat ...check,money...check....right lets go..i'd been to a few away matches by then but it's still a strange feeling that pent up emotion you get when your nearing your opponents home ground,the hornet noise getting louder,the first sight of there floodlights,the first shout of the programme seller and your stomach is getter tighter by each passing phase(strange but it still happens to this day)well this day was no different the expectation was ..........well it just was.It was five games in the league since we had last won we needed to get back on track we still had an outside chance of the title and we had Wolves at home next week(looking good for the title)so we had to make a statement and get some belief back.....And Boy Did we...We absolutely ripped Blackpool to pieces with some of the best football i'd seen in two years,it helped scoring with virtually our first attack when Viollet rounded off a move that started deep in our own half and without a Blackpool player touching the ball,Viollet added another and Scanlon scored but the star of the show was Bobby Charlton who ran them ragged and scored a hat-trick in the 6-0 romp.one player who also stood out was Maurice Setters his no nonsense play in the centre of defence was a joy to behold,United have been lucky over the years in the centre half department (as we are now, drooling over Vidic) and Mo was no exception.....coming out of the ground planning the nights raids on the Blackpool quenching holes...ie pubs i happened to glance round and i saw a young lad(possibly same age as me)with a Blackpool scarf crying because of the result and the hammering his beloved team had just received,memories came flooding back to me of the Spurs game and how i felt when i was walking out of Old Trafford.......did i feel sorry for him.......did i heck...i loved it !! ROLL ON THE WOLVES..........................
 
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