Willian

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#1
Rumours about Willian again this morning he’s rumoured to be very keen on the
That would be a hell of a signing and makes so so much sense. Jose loved him at Chelsea, he's a right sided attacker and he's such a good player with great pace.
 

jsp

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#2
That would be a hell of a signing and makes so so much sense. Jose loved him at Chelsea, he's a right sided attacker and he's such a good player with great pace.
My only issue with Willian is are we signing another player who's best years are behind him I'd rather we go find the "next Willian" the one who's still only 25 and ripping it up at Shakthar or wherever and ready to step up to the big time.

If we go for Willian I'd be asking serious questions of our scouting department as it's about time they found us a hidden gem who magically solves all our problems rather than just spending fortunes on the obvious solution.
 

Mr C

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#3
We have tried that, what we need is quality established players. The press, and many utd fans are waiting for Jose to fail in his 3rd year.

Robben and Ribery are still at a big club 5 years down the line from Willian
 

jsp

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#4
Yeah I like Willian but he's never been Robben & Ribery class and those guys have had it easy at Bayern 6 weeks off every winter they play like half the games now anyway in a shorter season in a team that bosses the entire division bit like Scholes & Giggs did for us almost semi retirement used when required.

I'm not saying Willian would be a bad signing but you look at players like Robertson, Marcus Alonso & Trippier that rivals have picked up relative cheap and turned into really good players who make major contributions we need one or two of those type signings.
 

IDFD

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#5
I like Willian but I don’t want to see us go after him. If we were going to it should have been two seasons ago when Mourinho came
 

jsp

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#6
I like Willian but I don’t want to see us go after him. If we were going to it should have been two seasons ago when Mourinho came
I'd go one further and saw we should've been in for him when he was at Shakthar he was a quality player back then when they had a really good side.
 

Mr C

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#7
I'm not his biggest fan.

I'd rather risk Bale and move Sanchez out right, but that all seems risky, player with dodgy injuries and a player playing out of his favourite position
 

jsp

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#8
I'm not his biggest fan.

I'd rather risk Bale and move Sanchez out right, but that all seems risky, player with dodgy injuries and a player playing out of his favourite position
Why not just play Bale on the right considering that is where he plays for Madrid?

Sanchez isn't going to play on the right I think we can give up on that now he's either playing on the left or in the centre.
 

Mr C

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#10
Why not just play Bale on the right considering that is where he plays for Madrid?

Sanchez isn't going to play on the right I think we can give up on that now he's either playing on the left or in the centre.
I read a couple of articles where he says he doesn't like playing off the right, but yes it's a possibility, but like moving Sanchez there, it's square peg round hole.
 
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#11
I’m in two minds about Willian, obviously a fantastic player but will he regress from this point out? He will be 30 by the time the new season starts. This is not to say 30 year olds can’t make an impact because David Silva is 32 and ripping it up. I wouldn’t be disappointed if it didn’t happen but I wouldn’t be that excited if it did happen.
 

jsp

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#12
I read a couple of articles where he says he doesn't like playing off the right, but yes it's a possibility, but like moving Sanchez there, it's square peg round hole.
I think the right side was Bale's best position because it meant he could come in on his left foot and shoot but I think now he's basically a centre forward/number 10 because he hasn't got the energy to play on the wing and do the defensive work.
 

Edgy1968

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#13
Do we not already have the next Willian on our hands though? The way I look at it, we have Sanchez and potentially Willian both 29ish and then we have Chong and Gomes, both of who are 17/18 and both of who United expect huge things from, one can play from the left one can play from the right, are them two next in line say two years down the line to take over from them pair?

Obviously your hoping the development continues but you can gradually integrate them into the squad, Rashford in a year or two potentially being an out and out striker, food for thought, buying a 29 year old right winger might be more sensible than we think.
 

boothstownred

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#14
If that's the case then bringing a 32 year old in actually seems like a decent idea. Willian comes in for 2 or 3 years giving chong and others to e to develop in a natural way. We definitely need a right flank player. Bring in nobody and you rush the am through. Bring in a 23 year old and that position looks set for 6 or 7 years.i have high hopes for several of our academy but patience needs to be shown by both player and club.
 

Edgy1968

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#15
Yeah just my opinion but I think we have two lads on our hands who can be exceptional in Gomes and Chong, both look a level above the reserve league, especially with them being relegated this year, we also have Pereira coming back who can potentially play right hand side as well, I think Willian would be a great bit of business personally.
 

JSNFRMN

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#16
I'm surprised we're looking at another right footed attacking option if this is true. Out of the 6 attacking options we have for the 3/4 spaces available only 2 are left footed, one is our main striker and the other is now 30, really slow and has only scored 3 goals this season having scored 10 in each of his previous 3 full seasons.
 

Edgy1968

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#17
I don't buy into this whole he has to be right footed or left footed to play here and there, what happened to the days where a winger could come inside and out, it's like now you can only do one role and that is it.

Willian can come inside, he can go on the outside, great delivery with either foot, as long as he can play on the right wing, I'm really not bothered what foot he uses, it's like people forget that Giggs could only use his left foot and he somehow managed to make a half decent career out of playing on the left wing, if you listen to people in this day and age that is just crazy talk!

Every player we have wants to come inside and they constantly run into each other, it would be a breath of fresh air to have a winger who can actually beat a full back and put a decent ball into the box.
 

boothstownred

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#18
I am probably a bit less sure about Gomes than I am chong. I think to make it to our first team he might have to be patient in the way lingard was. There are several other really good prospects in the academy too.
 

jsp

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#19
Willian is right footed but he actually plays on the right which is rare on a modern wide player plus his left foot is also pretty good.

My view of Gomes & Chong is whoever we buy they will need to prove they're better than them and they will hopefully get the chance to do that but Utd need them to go on loan and get themselves ready over the next 2 years to then be in the first team.

Where we are right now I don't think we can afford to be developing players it's 5 years without the title now and that's 5 years where we haven't even been close next season we have to put up a legitimate challenge to do that I don't think we can afford to be relying on players like Gomes & Chong.

Lets get ourselves back on our perch then focus on bringing through the academy boys when we can.
 

Edgy1968

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#20
Which is why I think Sanchez and Willian at the age they are is perfect, it gives the young lads two maybe three years to develop, gain experience, have a few loans, and be ready when Sanchez/Willian are 32/33 and need to be replaced.

Look at Alexander Arnold, if he was at United he would not have had a sniff now, Klopp trusted him, allowed him a few bad games without the world going mad, he is now a guaranteed starter in the Champions League Final and gong to the World Cup, not every youngster needs 17 loans and 8 years to develop, some of them just need a chance and a bit of trust.
 
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#22
We seem to seriously overthink things when it comes to youngsters.
I totally agree but with the money around and the need for instant success - it doesn’t lend well to throwing in youngsters.

I think if they are good enough they are old enough but some players just need to be given a chance.
 

jsp

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#23
Which is why I think Sanchez and Willian at the age they are is perfect, it gives the young lads two maybe three years to develop, gain experience, have a few loans, and be ready when Sanchez/Willian are 32/33 and need to be replaced.

Look at Alexander Arnold, if he was at United he would not have had a sniff now, Klopp trusted him, allowed him a few bad games without the world going mad, he is now a guaranteed starter in the Champions League Final and gong to the World Cup, not every youngster needs 17 loans and 8 years to develop, some of them just need a chance and a bit of trust.
That lad got a chance because Clyne was out injured for the whole season and he took it the manager has stuck with him because he hasn’t got much choice it’s how Rashford got his break all the strikers got injured he got a chance and took it.

Gomes remind me of Lingard at 18 he’s not ready for men’s football the premier league would break him so I think he needs holding back to get himself physically ready for it as he’s picking up a lot of injuries even in youth football.

Chong to me looks like he might be ready for it but we have Rashford in the squad as an emerging talent with this manager I don’t think there’s room for 2 in the same area he wants consistent players and that is more experience.
 

Edgy1968

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#24
He was getting chances while Clyne was fit, fair play to Klopp he has given the lad and chance and he has smashed it. Just don't want us turning into Chelsea whereby they have won the youth cup something like 5 out of 7 years and the only player to come through is Loftus Cheek who has hardly been given a sniff and been loaned out.

To be fair to Gomes he tore it up when he came on at the end of last season and against Yeovil, it might be "Mens football" but its not mens football of the 80s or 90s, its mens football of prime dona's who have it in their contracts their not allowed to be tackled in training and go diving like Tom Daley if anyone goes near them, hardly anything to be frightened about.

Not like he has Vinny Jones crunching through him on his debut, he will have some soft Instagram playboy footballer trying to intercept his pass scared of getting a hair out of place if he tackles haha
 

jsp

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#25
Footballers now tackle with more force than they ever did in the 80's or 90's the tackles might not be knee high lick they used to be but even a normal tackle by a PL footballer is done with way more force because the players hit each other at much greater speed as they're all athletes now. It's the same with Rugby as the game has become more professional the players are bigger, quicker and stronger so when they hit each other the injuries are much more severe and football is the same.

Wilshere I think suffered the injuries he did because he tried to compete with the bigger boys way before he was ready unlike Rooney he didn't have a mans body at 16/17 when he broke through. Both Chong & Gomes have had pretty bad injuries in the last few years and have missed a lot of football I don't think they need to drop down the leagues but I think both would benefit from a year or two out on loan either in another top european league then come back fully ready to go.

Got a solution just got Rojo to 2 foot them in training every few weeks if they get up from that then they're ready if they stay down then they're not ready. Footballers aren't the violent thugs in the Vinny Jones fake hard man thing anymore but they all still know all the nasty tricks on how to properly hurt someone.
 

Edgy1968

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#27
And re Gomes/Chong again its why I said that signing wingers who are 29ish is great as it gives them two or three years to go out on loan and get them ready for the first team
 

IDFD

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#28
His statement was a factual one about forces of impact not challenges made. The force players are hitting eachother and making challenges at will generally have more impact now than it used to. It's simple physics if two players run in to eachother and both are running at say 35kmp/h the force of the impact will be greater than in the 70's when the football wasn't played at such break neck speeds. The horror challenges that used to exist aren't around but the impact between the collisions will be higher.

The fitness, speed and build of these players is better than it's ever been. No need to rush players let them fill out their bodies and then bring them in.
 

Mr C

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#29
In theory that is correct of course.

But players don't run full pelt at each other and tackle. A high percentage of tackles I would say are at slow speeds in the middle of the park, or sideways tackles.

Personally, I think the tackling is nowhere near as dangerous as it use to be. I'd rather have Smalling tackling me than Ruddock.
 

Edgy1968

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#30
Players arn't sprinting every time they tackle! If your in midfield you lunge, intercept, its rarely these days that players leave the ground as every time they do its a booking, yes if two players run from big distances and charge into each other of course, how many times does that happen on a football field?

So people complain that we are getting close to a non contact sport but somehow there are worse challenges than back in the 80/90s?? That makes zero sense.
 

Edgy1968

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#31
Plus I'm not to sure if these messages are coming across but for about the twentieth time I'm not saying to rush our kids through into the team for next season, I am saying that giving them two or three years makes sense as a kid should be more than ready to play first team football by the age of 20/21.

Not said once to rush them but saying not all of them need to wait until their 25 to be given a chance.
 

jsp

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#32
Football 20 years ago was much much slower and these days at the very top level players are regularly flying into each other at full speed if you've got a winger going down the line and you come across to cover chance are you're both sprinting full speed into that tackle it is why they had to change the rules.

The tackles are nowhere near as dangerous in terms of where players hit each other know but force of impact is infinitely greater just listen to ex players talk about it. The tackles aren't worse they are just more dangerous.

I played a bit of sunday league with an ex pro and when he wanted to stick one on someone who was being a bit of an idiot he could do some serious damage with a perfectly legal tackle when he wanted. Speaking to him about it he said basically he had to hold back with tackles because if he went full speed they'd be losing 2 or 3 players a game and he didn't want to be responsible for lads missing work so he basically reserved it for people who deserved it.

I'd say for the example of Chong & Gomes who are wide players your chances of being nailed at full speed are much greater if you play out wide because chances are you are going one vs one and looking to get in behind players on the cover. However, the cummulative effect of the smaller impact tackles put a lot of strain on young players who aren't physically developed enough to take it.

I thnk I'm right in saying both these kids are 18 neither I don't think is ready yet but 2-3 seasons time when they're 21 if they're managed well they could be incredible. I think people not you @Edgy1968 get far to keen on rushing kids into first team football because they're running rings round people in the academy. The process takes time you get some like Rashford who are ready from the moment they step into first team at 18 but they are the 1% of the 1% who make it to the top.
 

jsp

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#35
£50m apparently. How can a 29 year old be worth that much?
It’s a new world when it comes to transfer fees.

If top guys are going for 150m then a seasoned vet with 3-4 good years still in them at 29 is probably worth that.

Surprised Barca were willing to offer that for what would be a squad player but I guess at Griezmann turned them down they’re looking at an alternative and to be fair Willian ripped them apart in the first leg of their CL tie.
 
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