Who was worse Moyes or LVG?

jsp

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Bit bored so which of these two do you think did more damage to Man Utd in their spells at the club.

LVG has said a few things again over the weekend about the way he was treated by Woodward who he's basically calling 2 faced for telling him one thing while he was trying to hire Mourinho behind his back in that final season and Moyes still to this date says given time he'd have got it right.

I personally think Moyes did more damage he was totally the wrong guy and he killed the winning culture at the club but LVG served up the worst football I've ever watched it was painful to watch.
 

IDFD

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Moyes - He came in an killed the winning culture of the club. I still to this day think firing Ferguson’s back room staff is the worst mistake I’ve seen anyone at United make.

If given time he’d have got it right then why has he failed everywhere he’s gone since.

Unlike anyone else Moyes came in to a club used to winning. Had the championship winning side and staff to hand and threw away a golden opportunity.
 

Mr C

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LVG should never have come, he was completly the wrong fit for the club, I hated his Barca team.

Moyes just did it all wrong from the off, they way he got rid of the staff showed a real lack of experience.

Both awful, but I would say LVG, as he had more experience and should have performed better. Moyes replaced Fergie, on to loser from the start.
 

jsp

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Do you think LVG had time to prepare for the job?

IIRC he was basically nailed on for the Spurs job then at the last minute Utd swooped in he told them he'd be 100% focused on the world cup but apart from conclude the deals in place for Herrera and Shaw they didn't really do anything in terms of new players until LVG arrived only a few weeks before the season started. Moyes knew he had the job in April and still took until deadline day to sign a player and didn't get rid of anyone either.

I do think both men had the same issue there was no plan to really follow just this huge void left by Ferguson was sort of like building flat pack furniture without the instruction manual you'll probably get their in the end.

The suggestion was the club wanted Moyes to keep on Fergie's coaching staff but he wanted his own people around him
 

Mr C

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I think Moyes was hindered by Gill leaving too, which is why the transfers were a car crash.

Moyes made a huge mistake getting rid of key staff members and not appreciating players like Rio.

They were both two awful appointments. However I expected it of Moyes, although I hate LVG playing style, he should have done more with all his experience.
 

jsp

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I think losing Gill was an issue but Moyes also didn't really know what he wanted because he didn't know what needed to be done to improve that team because lets be honest he didn't know what to do which is why he was never the right man. Sort of like putting a great banger racing mechanic in charge of the F1 car on race day he can tune the crap out of a piece of junk but probably hasn't got a clue what most of the bits on an F1 car do.

I don't think Gill had much involvement in transfers under Ferguson but he definitely carried respect when he picked the phone up to people and the issue in Moyes first summer was they targeted the wrong players. Spent the whole summer chasing Fabregas who used us for leverage against Barcelona to get what he wanted had no intention of joining us.
 

Shoot

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;)

Couldn't just answer the question your were asked could you
That's because I don't know how the question can be asked while omitting Mourinho. I respect both Moyes and Van Gaal as managers and think both their careers were tainted by the shit show at United following the retirement of Fergie, but probably more importantly Gill.
Mourinho was tainted before he arrived.

In terms of who was worse, the real answer is MANCHESTER UNITED
 

jsp

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That's because I don't know how the question can be asked while omitting Mourinho. I respect both Moyes and Van Gaal as managers and think both their careers were tainted by the shit show at United following the retirement of Fergie, but probably more importantly Gill.
Mourinho was tainted before he arrived.

In terms of who was worse, the real answer is MANCHESTER UNITED

Because it can it was a question with an a or b answer.

Gills retirement was more important than Fergie’s?

Gill had F all to do with the on field success of Utd he couldn’t keep the shareholders out of the grasp of the glazers couldn’t get them to see there was way more money to be made by sitting tight rather than selling out to the Glazers. Couldn’t control Fergie either he should never have let him go after major shareholders in court arguing over horse jizz.
 

jsp

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Yes, if you were Fergie's successor it would have been. Without doubt.

I don’t for one minute doubt I’d of made a bigger mess than Moyes but we wouldn’t of signed Fellaini and I’d have kept everyone in current roles hoping that they’d cover up all my flaws like a good manager.

Reality I’d have been sacked before the pre season tour started for disgracing myself in Ibiza on a lads holiday after my massive pay day.

Now if I’d replaced Gill we’d be flying
 

Shoot

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I don’t for one minute doubt I’d of made a bigger mess than Moyes but we wouldn’t of signed Fellaini and I’d have kept everyone in current roles hoping that they’d cover up all my flaws like a good manager.

Reality I’d have been sacked before the pre season tour started for disgracing myself in Ibiza on a lads holiday after my massive pay day.

Now if I’d replaced Gill we’d be flying
:rolleyes:
I didn't mean you, literally
 

IDFD

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Haha! I read it the same way JSP did at first and wondered what the hell you were on about. Now you’ve clarified that you meant to Moyes it was more important Gill leaving than Fergie leaving it makes sense.

However to the future of United Ferguson leaving was the most important thing. Replaced Gill with Woodward was just another mistake in the long line of things.

I still think any manager could have walked in and told the back room staff and players to just continue what they were doing the season before and they would have got better than 7th out of themselves without a figure head.
 

Mr C

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History tells us replacing Fegie was a hiding to nothing, whoever took over was doomed to fail really. Yes it was a championship winning squad, but I doubt any manager alive other than Fergie could have done that with that squad.

Moyes was always going to fail, I don' t blame him really, he was a fish in a shark pool, way out of his depth. LVG should have done much better.

No doubt Gill leaving had a huge impact, granted we chased a player sho didn't want to come, but you move Gill out and then the agents are no longer on the lower ground. Especially with Moyes at the helm.

They should have done everything it took to get Pep. And to some extent that's down to Fergie. He could have warned the board of his plans a season or two before. He needen't make it public knowledge like before. I'm sure clubs plan years ahead with transfers, so to just up and leave would be difficult for everyone involved, maybe with a bit more time to plan we could have got the right man.
 

Tolekcantona

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Bit bored so which of these two do you think did more damage to Man Utd in their spells at the club.

LVG has said a few things again over the weekend about the way he was treated by Woodward who he's basically calling 2 faced for telling him one thing while he was trying to hire Mourinho behind his back in that final season and Moyes still to this date says given time he'd have got it right.

I personally think Moyes did more damage he was totally the wrong guy and he killed the winning culture at the club but LVG served up the worst football I've ever watched it was painful to watch.
I admit I backed Moyes simply on Fergie’s recommendation.
Sadly we became a team that feared other teams. ‘We’re not worthy ‘ seemed to be the attitude when playing top opposition.
I lived through the dire 80’s but enjoyed that era more than LVG’s time but at least he won us the long awaited FA cup and was a character...with his balls (stories) In conclusion...Moyes.
 

Shoot

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I admit I backed Moyes simply on Fergie’s recommendation.
Sadly we became a team that feared other teams. ‘We’re not worthy ‘ seemed to be the attitude when playing top opposition.
I lived through the dire 80’s but enjoyed that era more than LVG’s time but at least he won us the long awaited FA cup and was a character...with his balls (stories) In conclusion...Moyes.
Yes but I think some forget Moyes had done a great job with Everton, commanded great respect and was successful all his career prior to going to United which admittedly seemed to be the job too far. Clearing out all Fergie's backroom staff to bring his own in probably sealed his fate. Can only presume he was trying to show he was his own man.
But clearly he wasn't helped by Woodward who is a very lucky man to have survived the last 6-7 years. Only now is he starting to redeem himself. Neither Moyes or Van Gaal got the chance to do that.
No mistake should be made when making assessment of the clubs failings over these years, Woodward is largely responsible.
 

Steve Bott

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Bit bored so which of these two do you think did more damage to Man Utd in their spells at the club.

LVG has said a few things again over the weekend about the way he was treated by Woodward who he's basically calling 2 faced for telling him one thing while he was trying to hire Mourinho behind his back in that final season and Moyes still to this date says given time he'd have got it right.

I personally think Moyes did more damage he was totally the wrong guy and he killed the winning culture at the club but LVG served up the worst football I've ever watched it was painful to watch.
Moyes was the worst. At least won Van Gaal steered us to an FA Cup win. Ironic wasn't it. He'd been told he had got the bullet before we plahyed in that final against Palace. Tough at the top eh?
 

RichH2016

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LVG without doubt. He changed the style of this team and with Jose we then picked a manager with a similar style and set up which was away from what the club apparently wanted to do.
 

jsp

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Moyes was the worst. At least won Van Gaal steered us to an FA Cup win. Ironic wasn't it. He'd been told he had got the bullet before we plahyed in that final against Palace. Tough at the top eh?

I think Van Gaal steadied a sinking ship we were in a real bad place at the end of that season under Moyes so many key players were finished and pretty much everyone at the club was unhappy and wanted to leave it really was that bad.

The biggest mistake with LVG was they should have fired him in December of that second season the football was garbage it was clear he was going at the end of the season but they kept pretending like he was carrying on and it ended with the calamity of him basically being sacked on the day of the cup final and fans booing him which was disgusting. That deal with Mourinho was done months before LVG got the job everyone knew it they just couldn't say it publicly probably because of his pay off deal at Chelsea.

Yeah it's tough but he gets his contract paid up and he's happily retired a year earlier than planned so it's not the end of the world.
 

Cosmic Slop

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I think LVG could have made a better show of it with the exact same resources as Moyes had. LVG might have actually succeeded in landing one of the transfer targets Ed promised Moyes (and didn't deliver). Even 1 of the targets, Bale, Fabregas, et al., would have made a huge difference. I don't think LVG would have won the title with the team he inherited but I think they would have been better suited to executing his game plan than the team he did get. Neither were right for United, neither were very good, but at least LVG at one point was a top manager. Moyes was always a journeyman.
 

Shoot

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A journeyman? He had managed Everton for 11 years behind only Fergie and Wenger as the league’s longest serving managers
 

jsp

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Journeyman is the wrong word but he was a good experienced mid table manager who punched his weight with Everton and given a chance at the big time and he flopped massively.

He tried to change to much quickly thinking he could re-shape it in his image but the results were so bad he got the sack.

If you say Utd wanted to appoint a manager from within the PL then Moyes was the logical choice ticked a lot of boxes but he was a big gamble as he'd never been anywhere near a club of our size.
 

RichH2016

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Moyes made a lot of sense at the time. Don't get me wrong I had reservations and concerns but it made sense. I actually thought at the time Jose was the more logical choice to carry on from Sir Alex but I did understand the process with Moyes.

And I do recall Moyes had some terribly bad luck. Goals against us that were unfortunate deflections. Goals against us when we were dominating games.

He made mistakes, he said some stupid things that alienated fans but I do think he was unfortunate in some ways. I recall times when the camera would cut to him on the sideline and he would be laughing in disbelief at the bad luck.
 

jsp

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Never got the Moyes decision he'd never punched above his weight at Everton, he didn't win anything, he didn't regularly cause major upsets, did he ever win at Anfield or Old Trafford for example?

Always felt he got the job because there was absolutely no plan amongst the board at Utd for what to do when Fergie retires and when he gave them 2 months notice all the top names were already committed elsewhere and Utd were left scrambling. Sounds mad but they'd have been better putting Phelan in charge for a year while they found the right man.

He turned out to be the wrong man when he eventually got the job but Mourinho was probably the right man to replace Fergie he knew the players, he knew the league and he wouldn't have been afraid of replacing Sir Alex he'd replaced winners at other clubs. When he came 3 years later I think he was a changed man again the fact Chelsea exploded in his face again made him even more bitter and twisted.
 

Mr C

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I felt like he got the job because a Scottish man worked last time. There is no logical reason for him to have got the biggest job in football. Completely out of his league
 

jsp

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I felt like he got the job because a Scottish man worked last time. There is no logical reason for him to have got the biggest job in football. Completely out of his league

Probably was some of that this idea that they shared the same working class Scottish values and all that but personality wise they were very different people and they certainly didn't play the game the same way. Fergie sides took risks and didn't bulk at the high risk high reward table whereas Moyes played conservatively safety first football that drove Everton fans mad towards the end because he was afraid that by trying to win big he'd lose big.

Fergie arrived with a great record in Scotland he'd climbed the mountain and beaten goliath even some pedigree in Europe he was the hot young thing of his time. Utd were a club starved of success looking to get back on top after 20 years watching them down the road win everything.

Honestly think if they weren't mates the idea of Moyes being seen as his heir would have infuriated him.
 

Rammlied

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Bit bored so which of these two do you think did more damage to Man Utd in their spells at the club.

LVG has said a few things again over the weekend about the way he was treated by Woodward who he's basically calling 2 faced for telling him one thing while he was trying to hire Mourinho behind his back in that final season and Moyes still to this date says given time he'd have got it right.

I personally think Moyes did more damage he was totally the wrong guy and he killed the winning culture at the club but LVG served up the worst football I've ever watched it was painful to watch.

Mourinho and often he play Lukaku, Ibrahimovic, Rashford, Mata, Matic, Smalling among otherwise creative squad.
 

Rammlied

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Still think Stam or even Moyes are prio to coach role if Ole miss top4 race in the 2021 ..
 

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