Wayne Rooney | Match Discussion thread 2016/17

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RichH2016

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That may be true at International Level, but have the alternatives here at United (Mata/Mkhi/Herrera) been so impressive that Rooney absolutely has to be dropped? I don't think they have - albeit we have seen little of Mkhi.

Rooney has been poor for a long while but as the captain; as a leader (one of the few) and driver of the side, it is not a complete shock as to why he hasn't been dropped yet considering the alternatives.

For me, yes I would drop Rooney now. I'd give Mkhi a go at 10 - or play 3 in the middle. But I have to say, I'd be surprised if the outcome would be as alarmingly progressive as I'm reading many United fans feel dropping Rooney would be. There are big issues elsehwere in the side too.
I'm not sure I agree that there are too big issues elsewhere? Where else are there big issues?

The biggest issue is pace in attack, well drop Rooney for a quicker player and that helps instantly. Another issue is not being creative enough... Well a big part of that is because technically Rooney is limited so bring in a player with more technical ability and that helps there.

The team is trying to squeeze Rooney in. As a result the formation basically has to be 4-2-3-1 and it's hurting the team and not getting the best out of Pogba. Rooney is the single biggest reason this team is struggling so much. I'm not saying its the only reason but it's the biggest.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Midfield is still an issue, which is staggering considering the amount of money that has been invested in the area in the last three years. The team lacks a proper holding midfielder, who can dictate and distribute. Herrera, Schneiderlin, Fellaini are solid players, that will help the team to function, but they will not propel the team to the next level.

Ibrahimovic or the instructions given to Ibrahimovic is also an issue; a stationary target man is easier to defend against. Do any of the top teams play with a stationary target man? He should play as a false nine in a 4-3-3 system where he will be under less pressure and less likely to lose the ball, however I dislike the idea of reverting to that tactic; a striker should be able to run the channels and create space for the midfielders, but it's needs must in the current situation. And to bring the discussion back to Rooney, he has generally performed better with a mobile striker.
 

boothstownred

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I agree with most of what you have said here bob. Midfield has been a problem for years, including probably the last three years of fergie. Desperately need a royal Keane type player who is almost like one and a half players. This needs addressing as none of our midfield players are even close to that. I also agree with your point about Rooney but I think it's too late now. He started very young and I believe he will finish young with a lot of miles on the clock.
 

Sideshow Bob

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I think we would see a better Rooney, but that better Rooney is probably still not good enough.
 

RichH2016

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It's a fair assessment but I'm not sure we will now see a better Rooney... To me he just looks washed up and like he needs a new challenge maybe in the MLS. Sadly he's done at the very top level.
 

boothstownred

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To be honest I think we all think that, maybe in varying degrees. One thing we are all agreed on us he is not really good enough to be in our first team atm
 

macas

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Some poll today 96% of voters want Rooney dropped. That tells you that 96% are FIFA managers lol. But kidding aside I agree totally. He needs to be dropped and left out for good.
 

JSNFRMN

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Manchester United captain Wayne Rooney is just no longer good enough

Probably the best of a number of articles published in the past 24 hours about Rooney. Personally think it's been a long time coming, he's worse than ever now but has been getting a free pass for too long. Former teammates and friends in the media still not acknowledging that there is a problem. Savage only one criticising him on BT Sport yesterday, others made excuses for him or just ignored talking about him. Stan Collymore!!! has written an excellent article. Excuse the title though.

Does Rooney Have A Playing Clause In His Contract? - BoyleSports Betting | Stan Collymore | Gordon Elliott | Mark O'Haire
 

IrishManc.

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I'm not sure I agree that there are too big issues elsewhere? Where else are there big issues?
For me we aren't yet overly convincing at the back. Best CB partnership needs to be established. Valencia probably isn't a long term bet at RB. We have two number 8's playing in the two holding centre mid positions in a 4-2-3-1. We have no natural wingers and seriously lack pace on the right flank - I feel we badly need to sign a RW - Mahrez or someone who has pace and can beat a man (for me Mkhi is a 10/not a natural winger). Is Ibra then mobile enough for how we want to play, as Bob alluded to? There's several big issues.

But back to Rooney, agree with the overall sentiments here. He's past it unfortunately. Terrific servant, as we all know, but the plug needs to be pulled.
 

RichH2016

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For me we aren't yet overly convincing at the back. Best CB partnership needs to be established. Valencia probably isn't a long term bet at RB. We have two number 8's playing in the two holding centre mid positions in a 4-2-3-1. We have no natural wingers and seriously lack pace on the right flank - I feel we badly need to sign a RW - Mahrez or someone who has pace and can beat a man (for me Mkhi is a 10/not a natural winger). Is Ibra then mobile enough for how we want to play, as Bob alluded to? There's several big issues.

But back to Rooney, agree with the overall sentiments here. He's past it unfortunately. Terrific servant, as we all know, but the plug needs to be pulled.
You can't seriously be telling me Fellaini is an 8 type player? Based on what? Yes I'll agree though that midfield is an issue but dropping Rooney and changing to a 4-3-3 solved that.
 

IrishManc.

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You can't seriously be telling me Fellaini is an 8 type player? Based on what? Yes I'll agree though that midfield is an issue but dropping Rooney and changing to a 4-3-3 solved that.
Well it depends what you regard an 8 to be. For me an 8 is usually a box-to-box midfielder who is more attacking inclined than defensive. Usually complimented by a 6. Fellaini, for me, is exactly what I'd describe an 8 as. Pogba too. And Herrera. That's where our problem lies - our 3 most in-favour midfielders are all the same type of player. Carrick is a 6, Schweinsteiger too (more or less) but both seem past it. Schneiderlin is also a 6 but doesn't offer enough on the ball - which is why we end up playing with two 8's.

So dropping Rooney isn't going to solve it fully. We still need another midfielder. As I've said elsewhere, I'd either give Blind a go as a 6 or purchase somebody if Carrick isn't going to play.

Out of curiosity, what would you describe Fellaini as position wise? If he's a holding midfielder he didn't do a good job of it on Sunday, otherwise Watford's first two goals would have been prevented.
 

boothstownred

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I don't think he is a holding midfield player or an 8 tbh. All his best games, and they weren't for United, we're in a weird position more splayed him at Everton. He seemed to play as a target man in the number 10 position. I don't think that's an option for us.
 

JSNFRMN

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League Cup: Northampton 1-3 Manchester United - 21st September 2016

Played upfront and then shunted out on the right tonight. Centre forward is I think his best position and where he should play when he does play but probably our 3rd best centre forward.
 

Sideshow Bob

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I thought he was okay at 9, and should have scored. His involvement/performance dropped off when he was moved to the right.
 

bludsucker

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I think he should accept that he will not be the first name on the team sheet and not fight it. He can still be a squad player for us.
 

JSNFRMN

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There was nothing special about it but it looked like his position, his natural position, something i've not seen from him this season so far.

I don't get this talk of it being natural that he drops back into midfield now he's in the latter stages of his career. What other forwards have done this in their 30s. Personally think he'd be better off becoming a penalty box striker, should be looking to do less work around the pitch and in midfield he'll have to do more. Seems to have had his heart set on a midfield role for a while now though.

You can say "he can still be a squad player for us" but not sure he can or would even want to. If he's not first choice, he should go, best for everyone.
 

boothstownred

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Off the top of my head I can only think of Mark Hughes who moved back to midfield towards the end of his career and Alan Smith that was converted, but neither of those were great goalscorers. I think the problem with Rooney is he naturally drops deep to receive the ball. As a lonely 9 you can't really do that and he does it wherever he plays. If he is playing as a 10 he drops into deep midfield
 

Sideshow Bob

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Mourinho on Rooney: “Wayne Rooney’s form is like Man United form. We are a team. We are not Wayne Rooney and we all started well, we all won four matches and we all lost three matches in the week, so that’s not Wayne Rooney and to be honest he didn’t play against Feyenoord, so he was not directly involved in that match.

“Everybody is involved in every match, even the ones who are not playing.”
 

SuperRash

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I do think he will be dropped for the Leicester game, I think Herrera and Pogba will start in midfield.

He is such a tough one, he has been a tremendous player but he looks short of confidence and while he won't admit to it, criticism must be getting to him a touch, it's natural. Even the stuff he is good at he is getting wrong, the passing is awry and his finishing has gone downhill. I still think he could influence us but he just needs some confidence.
 

RichH2016

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Well it depends what you regard an 8 to be. For me an 8 is usually a box-to-box midfielder who is more attacking inclined than defensive. Usually complimented by a 6. Fellaini, for me, is exactly what I'd describe an 8 as. Pogba too. And Herrera. That's where our problem lies - our 3 most in-favour midfielders are all the same type of player. Carrick is a 6, Schweinsteiger too (more or less) but both seem past it. Schneiderlin is also a 6 but doesn't offer enough on the ball - which is why we end up playing with two 8's.

So dropping Rooney isn't going to solve it fully. We still need another midfielder. As I've said elsewhere, I'd either give Blind a go as a 6 or purchase somebody if Carrick isn't going to play.

Out of curiosity, what would you describe Fellaini as position wise? If he's a holding midfielder he didn't do a good job of it on Sunday, otherwise Watford's first two goals would have been prevented.
See for me there's nothing attacking about Fellaini when he sits in midfield. He's not got the technical ability and he doesn't get forwards enough to support the attack. He is very limited and that's why he doesn't bring the best out of Pogba. It's really no coincidence that Pogba was MotM today with no Fellaini.

That's not saying Fellaini is a bad player, he just isn't United quality. And his best position is behind a striker where he can be used as a target man... But at United that kind of style isn't acceptable.

As for Rooney well again it's no coincidence that he's dropped today and we play our best game by far. Again it's about getting the best out of Pogba and Rooney hinders that.
 

macas

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Was just about to say the same. No coincidence at all that Man Utd played a hell of a lot better with 2 certain players missing and that Pogba and Herrera were outstanding. We need to play faster football to get at teams speed is the key.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Europa League: Manchester United 4-1 Fenerbahce - 20th October 2016

He was better and linked play well.
 

IrishManc.

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Yeah did well. Feel sorry for him the abuse he's received the past while. He has carried himself very well throughout it all. Would love him to have an Indian summer before the season is up, but can't see it happening at this point.
 

JSNFRMN

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Probably his best game of the season. Touch better, made good runs on and off the ball, linked well with other forwards too. If he's to play, it's as a striker or on the bench, get him concentrating fully on playing there and get him challenging Ibra for starting place. Needs to get hunger for goals back too.
 

redredred

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It seems to me that Rooney doesn't know whether he's a striker or a midfielder and that is stopping him playing narurally. Personally I think he should take up a Scholes like position, he can pass the ball very well and links play like Scholsey did. At the moment in his head he doesn't know what his best position is.
 

SuperRash

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It seems to me that Rooney doesn't know whether he's a striker or a midfielder and that is stopping him playing narurally. Personally I think he should take up a Scholes like position, he can pass the ball very well and links play like Scholsey did. At the moment in his head he doesn't know what his best position is.
I agree that Rooney just doesn't know what position he is supposed to be in. LVG convinced him that he was a midfielder and Hodgson agreed but occasionally he was back in the number 10/striking role. And now with Mourinho he is a number 10 but gets subbed on in a right winger role. His head must be spinning! I have a degree of sympathy for sure.
 

RichH2016

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I agree that Rooney just doesn't know what position he is supposed to be in. LVG convinced him that he was a midfielder and Hodgson agreed but occasionally he was back in the number 10/striking role. And now with Mourinho he is a number 10 but gets subbed on in a right winger role. His head must be spinning! I have a degree of sympathy for sure.
I have a degree of sympathy and I do feel for the guy who's done so much in his career and been such a good player over such a long time... But he isn't the player he was and that includes when he was playing in a consistent position. He's never looked after his body like a professional athlete should and he's paying for that now I think.
 

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Europa League: Fenerbahce 2-1 Manchester United - 3rd November 2016

 

JSNFRMN

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Cracking goal. At the moment i'd prefer him upfront to Ibra. Think he's done well there when played and the goal tonight will have given him a boost. If we're not going to play Rashford upfront, give Rooney a chance to make it 2 (or more) in 2.
 

boothstownred

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The problem is it should have been 2 from 1. He really needed to have been scoring from his first chance.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Premier League: Swansea City 1-3 Manchester United - 6th November 2016

An improved performance.
 

JSNFRMN

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Think dropping him has woken him up a little, everything he does looks more focused than before. Touch much better from where it was at start of season where, honestly, every time he got the ball it was poor.
 

bludsucker

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Much improved performance from him. A stint on the bench has done good for him.
 
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