The United Plan...

[RichH2016]

I keep hearing about this plan. That the club are in a rebuild and there's a long term plan that we must now stick with. Pundits are saying we need to stick with Ole because he's moving us forwards and he has a plan that he's trying to develop and execute.

So I ask... What is this plan?

Obviously the goal, the objective is to put us back at the top. That's what everyone at the club wants us to achieve.

But what is this grand plan? Because I'm not seeing it.

I'm seeing a squad that has absolutely no depth. A squad that's relying on youngsters, a lot of which we can't be sure will ever be good enough. We all like that youth are getting a chance but there's got to be a balance. And I'm not suggesting we need to buy proven players because we tried that and it didn't work very well. But buying a player like Maddison and Sancho... That's buying youth that aren't the finished article but it's adding known quality to the team. Giving Chong, who doesn't look anywhere near ready and I'm not sure his style ever will be in the PL isn't going to yield great results or show progress in style. I like Chong, he's a talented boy but he's just an example to me of someone with hype that I've seen nothing (admittedly in limited first team opportunities) to suggest he can be a top top player. It's early days but actually young players show a flash, they show a glimpse. They get you off your seat before frustrating you with a poor decision. I've not seen him do that once. Greenwood has. Chong hasn't.

We sold Lukaku, we sold Sanchez and for good reason but we didn't replace. We let Herrera go and solid Fellaini in January but we haven't replaced.

The results are laughable. Since Ole got the job full time we sit 13th in the form table.13th. Results are going to be mixed theres no doubt. I'm not expecting great results. Hell I'd take 6th or 7th with a decent cup run. This squad is definitely not a top 4 squad and doesn't look like a top 5 or 6 either. And that's kind of ok because we know there's a huge job on here but... the style of play I just don't see any improvement. And if it's counter attacking football that Ole is after then to me that's doomed to fail straight off the bat.

We have to expect a bumpy ride... But where's the actual progress of any sorts? A bumpy ride with exciting performances is fine but I don't really see that. I see a team void of ideas. A team who at times still appear to give up or accept defeat. I see no progress. There's no clear path like I thought there was with Klopp in his early Liverpool days. Hell I think there's a clear path and exciting times at Chelsea. Arsenal for their issues are entertaining and Emery has a style. We look clueless in attack. We get to the final third and there's no quick passing football to unlock teams. There's no idea of now what do we do.

Call me negative that's fine. I think I just speak what I see.

So what's this great plan?

 

[jsp]

We don't know what the plan is because the club aren't going to tell us that plan.

The plan seems to be clear out the existing squad which has failed to deliver for 6 seasons now and replace it with younger ideally British players this isn't a 1 year process it could take 2 or 3 years to get it sorted but there needs to be a realistic short term standard to measure them against.

I think the mistake in the summer was not signing a short term solution in the attack be that Mandzukic on a 2 year deal or Perisic on loan from Inter etc but I think hands were tied by the window closing to some extent as the Lukaku and Sanchez deals went beyond our window closing. Same in midfield with a player like Cabellos on loan from Madrid but the window shutting early really hurts clubs who are trying to sell players hopefully next season that sorts itself out. My only logic to this is with Europa League the club gambled that they'd give youth a chance and if it doesn't work and they can't meet the standard then we at least gave them a chance if this plan fails then the job gets more expensive next summer.

The goal has to be putting Utd back on top of the table both in England and in Europe to do that you need to be building a team that in 2-3 years time can take over from Liverpool and City when the players they currently rely on start to decline. You need to start catching them up and closing that gap then make sure you are ready to shoot past them if the likes of Pep or Klopp leave, City sat waiting for Fergie to go and they haven't looked back since.

You couldn't be more wrong about Emery btw ask or listen to Arsenal fans they don't have a clue what he's trying to do it changes every game one minute they're pressing the next they're not. Basically Arsenal are getting carried by world class attackers the rest of their team is all over the place. Pretty much all of them were happy to see the back of him last season and think he'll probably go at the end of this season.

 

[boothstownred]

I think jsp pretty much nailed what they are trying to do. Whether it works or not remains to be seen but at least it's a more sensible approach to tbe transfer market. I think the three players we have signed are a pretty decent snapshot of what they are trying to achieve. A player in his prime ready to play every game. A young player with limited premier league experience but looking like a good signing with years ahead of him. A raw talent that has hit the ground running but will probably have stuttering moments. Happy with that and if they can maybe get another in January and three in summer I would be delighted

 

[RichH2016]

So clearing out a squad where a number of players have long over stayed their welcome. And so with that we let go a couple but not enough. Jones still here, Rojo still here, Matic still here, Mata, Young still here and club captain. I know you can't clear out in one go but a number of those guys were wanted out by the previous manager and they still find themselves nicely employed by the club.

And on the pitch what's the approach? What's the style?

And what does Woodward and the board deem acceptable? So far it's been top 4 or out. So is that still the case? If not then how low is acceptable? Because I'm saying now this team isn't finishing higher than 6th. In fact it'll be 7th or 8th and the way it has started possibly lower.

 

[boothstownred]

It all really hinges on the next 2 transfer windows. These problems have built up over 6 years and 3 different managers. Ole is not going to sort that out in one transfer window. I am not convinced by ole and I certainly think it was stupid to appoint him when they did, however it is incredibly unfair to give him the job and then one transfer window to put it right. If after another 2 transfer windows, and maybe 2 months into next season, we have not made any progress then maybe it's a different story.

 

[SuperRash]

Honestly this season can be considered a bit of a free swing/write-off, however you want to phrase it really. We all know we don’t have a good enough squad. There is no point in getting rid of Ole because no manager is going to come and turn these players into title contenders. That’s why it’s described as a transitions period, we’ve gone away from bringing in the big time Charlie’s!

Who knows if Ole is the right man but got to give the guy time. If we had got rid of Fergie when he was not doing so great for us then we wouldn’t have had the success we did. Obviously Ole is no Sir Alex but got to give the man time.

 

[jsp]

So clearing out a squad where a number of players have long over stayed their welcome. And so with that we let go a couple but not enough. Jones still here, Rojo still here, Matic still here, Mata, Young still here and club captain. I know you can't clear out in one go but a number of those guys were wanted out by the previous manager and they still find themselves nicely employed by the club.

And on the pitch what's the approach? What's the style?

And what does Woodward and the board deem acceptable? So far it's been top 4 or out. So is that still the case? If not then how low is acceptable? Because I'm saying now this team isn't finishing higher than 6th. In fact it'll be 7th or 8th and the way it has started possibly lower.

Well you can’t sell everyone especially if you are struggling to buy it would seem Sancho, Dybala, Eriksen all turned down moves to Utd this summer and we were put off moves for Longstaff due to a high price tag.

The worry is Mourinho dismantled the LVG squad and built his own now Ole will dismantle that and there’s no guarantee he will get it right and can he attract top level talent as these players will have options. I’m not sure the best players will see Utd as the first choice destination most would probably choose City or Liverpool over us if given the choice and that’s without competing with the top European clubs.

As for the style who knows it seems to be a counter attack style we don’t press as a team but we’ve already seen that teams who sit deep against us and stay in position we struggle as we don’t break them down easily. We are also terrible on set pieces something that can be an easy breakthrough. Our moves at corners and free kicks are horrendous the delivery is often poor and there doesn’t seem to be much creativity to it. It’s like we don’t ever practise anything it’s basically get it near Maguire and hope for the best. 9 months in and it still feels very much like a Jose side but he hasn’t been able to radically change the playing squad still to many players who want to play backwards not forward.

As for this season 4th has to be the target I think it’s a tad ambitious we finished 6th last season and have arguably weakened the squad this season but Spurs, Chelsea & Arsenal all look equally vulnerable. So far we’ve had the injuries hopefully it’s not something that keeps occurring through the season but I think it will.

I think the plan is the right plan but I have to say the men executing this plan have no proven track record apart from Mike Phelan and all his success came under one man. Woodward, Ole, Butt, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna have the most important roles in the football side of the club currently only Phelan has a CV that warrants his position.

Forget the name on the badge and forget the history this is a club who’s finished 6th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th and we want to be number 1. The person who’s coming up with the plan and putting it in place should be someone who’s done this before they should have stolen key execs from Juventus a club that has had to rebuild following a total collapse.

 

[RichH2016]

I just don't see this plan I really don't. A plan means signs of progress and I'm not seeing that. Sure we made 3 good signings who are all young but we've made what we thought were good signings most summers.

Ole isn't the right man in my opinion. He's got sacked from Cardiff and since has managed Molde. He's a club legend and always will be but he's not the man to rebuild this club. I don't know who is but it's not him.

 

[jsp]

Look the plan for the board remains the same as always make as much money as possible success off the pitch comes first success on the pitch is a bonus.

In terms of recruitment there seems to be a new style of player being identified both this season and last season younger less high profile players Fred, Dalot, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka & James all expensive but we're not just chasing superstars.

On the pitch who really knows what is the plan like you say there's nothing obvious we seem to be sticking with a 4-2-3-1 formation there's been no deviation from that all season we've dumped the 4-3-3 from last season.

 

[boothstownred]

Ultimately of course the plan needs to show improvement bit that can't be guaranteed initially. It took the best manager of all time 7 years to win the league. There are no guarantees the Ole will pull this off but at least give him the chance.

 

[jsp]

Ultimately of course the plan needs to show improvement bit that can't be guaranteed initially. It took the best manager of all time 7 years to win the league. There are no guarantees the Ole will pull this off but at least give him the chance.

World is a different place now we can't keep going back and saying Fergie had time and Fergie had a team that had knocked on the door but they were heavily reliant on Robson and had a booze culture that needed to go. Ferguson was a massive innovator he was ahead of his time both on and off the pitch plus he'd proven himself in Scotland which at the time was a pretty competitive league.

Pep took 12 months to get his message across at City and totally overhaul the playing squad
Klopp took 18 months to do similar and another year to really fine tune it

The concern for everyone has to be the man in charge of this "project" is not someone who's delivered something similar at another club like Ferguson, Pep or Klopp had done before. He had success at Molde following a huge cash injection from new owners, then flopped at Cardiff in difficult circumstances but if you take his name away would his CV have made it past the first cull when they made the shortlist? Not a chance that's why this is a huge gamble and people are right to question it.

Everyone deserves the chance to fail but the thing is how long do you allow him to fail before pulling the pin and one thing I really hope is Utd have a contingency plan for if it gets to that point and you have to replace him. You obviously don't declare who plan B is (Pochetinno) but you need to have it there just in case all the top clubs have this just in case option.

 

[jsp]

Sources: Utd don't expect title bid until 2022

Manchester United's owners, the Glazer family, have sanctioned a three-year plan to restore the club's on-field fortunes.

www.espn.co.uk

Does seem like the club is leaking to the media that the plans are not a quick fix that Ole will be given time to sort it out.

Time afforded to the right man could bring huge results as we all know from our past time given to the wrong man can get you knowhere.

Lowering of expectations is a dangerous game to play because how long before the lower standards become acceptable just look at Arsenal after they moved to the Emirates suddenly 1st was no longer the target it became about 4th.

 

[RichH2016]

Look the plan for the board remains the same as always make as much money as possible success off the pitch comes first success on the pitch is a bonus.

This board is going to learn the hard way then I guess. And you know what? I start to hope things go drastically wrong. Then they'll sell up and someone can buy the club and fix things from the top.

 

[boothstownred]

You're right they will only learn the hard way. Crowds will dwindle. I would urge United fans not to spend money in the stadium but I can't see that happening

 

[jsp]

This board is going to learn the hard way then I guess. And you know what? I start to hope things go drastically wrong. Then they'll sell up and someone can buy the club and fix things from the top.

See this is where you are wrong.

They are already massively in profit they have taken money out of the club for the last decade without putting a penny back in, they've sold shares an pocketed some of the money directly rather than invest it in the business.

If the whole thing goes tits up yes they've lost a business worth a few billion but all the debt is secured against the club so there's no comeback on them personally.

As long as Utd remain a PL club they'll probably be able to remain in profit the TV deals are so vast and the reach is so big that they'll always find a way of making money and if they can lower fan expectations in terms of competing then potentially they can lower wage bills as there's no pressure to sign top players.

I don't think you'll ever get fans to stop going and no one should ever demand another person stops going to the game but I do think fans need to organise and start protesting before, during and after games to make it very clear over a sustained period that they don't accept the way the club is run. I honestly think that should focus on a Woodward out campaign he has been in charge for 6 years and it's been a total mess.

 

[RichH2016]

They are already massively in profit they have taken money out of the club for the last decade without putting a penny back in, they've sold shares an pocketed some of the money directly rather than invest it in the business.

Those profit margins won't continue though when this team is a mid table average side and that's the way it is heading for us.

 

[SuperRash]

Those profit margins won't continue though when this team is a mid table average side and that's the way it is heading for us.

Thing is we are so successful off the pitch than those profit margins will remain. That is one good thing that Woodward has done for us. Obviously success on the pitch will elevate that but after six years of mediocrity we are still generating even bigger revenue returns.

 

[RichH2016]

Thing is we are so successful off the pitch than those profit margins will remain. That is one good thing that Woodward has done for us. Obviously success on the pitch will elevate that but after six years of mediocrity we are still generating even bigger revenue returns.

We are successful because of who we are and our still fairly recent success. That won't necessarily continue when this team continues its slide in to irrelevance.

 

[jsp]

Those profit margins won't continue though when this team is a mid table average side and that's the way it is heading for us.

Yes they will because if the revenue drops then they'll slash spending profits will always be maintained or more importantly they'll continue to take money out in terms of salary or dividends and any shortfall will be dealt with by debts.

I agree things are only heading 1 way at the moment but lets see if they can stay true to their word about the slow rebuild.

As I've said I'd have some faith if there was someone somewhere in the higher levels of the club Ole up to Woodward who'd actually done this before none of them have so what faith can you have that they know how to do it properly.

 

[RichH2016]

Yes they will because if the revenue drops then they'll slash spending profits will always be maintained or more importantly they'll continue to take money out in terms of salary or dividends and any shortfall will be dealt with by debts.

They'll cut spending when we end up mid table or lower.

 

[jsp]

Ditching Ole Gunnar Solskjær will not stop the rot at Manchester United | Jonathan Wilson

By now the malaise at Old Trafford has deep roots stretching back several years and several managers – only equally deep systemic change will put it right

www.theguardian.com

This guy has never been an Ole fan but he makes valid points.

We get that it’s a long term thing but we’d hope to see a few more signs of progress by now and the injuries are a worry I personally think we have to many players who are just injury prone bodies can’t handle the workload.

The investor call thing is never really a football thing it doesn’t serve that purpose the people investing in Utd are doing it for money not because they want success on the pitch.

The worry is the club have decided not to appoint a proven director of football/technical director to help the manager, they’ve appointed a manager with zero big club experience and he has appointed coaches with zero experience (minus Phelan).

A lack of success on the pitch means the chances of investment off it reduce as people say the stadium is slowly becoming run down and it won’t be long before the training ground is left behind too.

 

[SuperRash]

Bit random but was watching Brentford in the Championship yesterday and a couple of their players were technically brilliant and I think that’s where we are so poor. A lot of our players really don’t have that technical ability that we really require. I get we were after young British players but we really need guys who can do that little bit extra in tight spaces. Think that’s where our transfer plan was poor in the summer.

 

[RichH2016]

We get that it’s a long term thing but we’d hope to see a few more signs of progress by now and the injuries are a worry I personally think we have to many players who are just injury prone bodies can’t handle the workload.

No doubt it's a long rebuild ahead of us that's going to take years. We need to get it right and be ready for when City and Liverpool start to regress. But to rebuild long term we have to have the right manager in charge and I've not seen anywhere near enough from Ole.

 

[jsp]

No doubt it's a long rebuild ahead of us that's going to take years. We need to get it right and be ready for when City and Liverpool start to regress. But to rebuild long term we have to have the right manager in charge and I've not seen anywhere near enough from Ole.

Directors think long term managers think short term the manager should be focusing and be judged on current results obviously he has to be judged within the restrictions he's working with but in modern football the first team manager should not be dictating longer term strategy as there's no guarantee they'll be around to see it through. That's what you have sporting directors for these people obviously come and go too but the idea is you have a core culture that you try to maintain by hiring people that fit your culture.

Utd's flip flopping from one to the other and back has resulted in this mess and maybe they realise that now and are prepared to put it all back together piece by piece.

We are almost starting from scratch the 90's and 00's are gone it's a different world now and while that was great the 10's have been a mess and the 20's could be worse they just need to take one look at AC Milan or other great clubs who got stuck in their ways and didn't change. Liverpool are probably a closer to home reference.

Utd have to get back to being the cutting edge and leading the way both on and off the pitch which is what they did with the PLC generating huge capital off the pitch and Fergie did on the pitch. The big worry for me is Ole is always looking back to what used to work.