The Government

Shoot

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Conservative or Labour?
If Starmer can prove himself to be a true leader and can unite the Labour Party I think it is time for that change. When he takes the gloves off he will tear Boris limb for limb for the poor handling of the Corona crisis. Infection rates on the rise again, was certain to happen.
 

jsp

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Labour

Starmer with his background will run rings round Boris in PMQs no doubt about it he will set him up to lie then expose his lies as he’s used to dealing with that environment but will the majority of people see that when we go back to the polls in 4 years. He’s so much more electable than Corbyn ever was but the press will hammer him for the next 4 years he needs to turn some of them on the tories which will be hard.

Boris might not last the full term I expect he will but the way the tories go through leaders who knows.

He’s got a hell of a job to catch Boris next time around the tories really crushed labour at the last election possibly forever.

The challenge for starmer is to win back those northern seats in England that were lost to tories but also try and get seats back from the SNP in Scotland.
 

Mr C

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I never really voted either of those, they didn't really reach to me. However I did think they country needed a change at the last election, unfortunately labour had an unelectable candidate.

I fear for the cuts the tories will bring in to recover from Covid.

I agree about Starmer, he looks like he can easily rip Boris a new one. Boris lost it twice at PMQ within 10 mins.
 

Mr C

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I see the housing minster has done some dodgy dealing, and Boris is defending him. How can Boris keep defending ministers and aides etc who do things wrong and get away with it. He should be under more scrutiny as a prime minister. Didn't he mess in PM questions yesterday too? said something untrue that Kier shot down.

Seems to be bullet proof
 

IDFD

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Only thing I remember him saying was that no other country has a working track and trace system.

Germany laughed.
 

Mr C

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yeah that was it, an aide had to apologise after, that the prime minister when into PMQ unprepared and not knowing the facts o_O Germany is among many.

Plus this housing minister dodgy dealing, Cummings. Boris can just do what he wants. If was a labour, or SNP minister or something all hell would break loose
 

jsp

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He's got a massive majority so of course he's pretty bullet proof as are the people around him.

Starmer will pull him apart time after time over his lies in PMQ's but come the next election can he get enough people to turn their backs on the Tories and join labour.

I think labour will struggle to win any election out right going forward their only real chance is forming a coalition government.
 

Shoot

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Priti Patel is one present Government member who impresses me despite her being a bit of a Thatcherite.
In recent times she has been the most vocal in condemning the mass gatherings that have been taking place, the destruction of statue's, and the Black Lives Matter's campaign, warning of a second wave of Corona.
She was a strong performer in the Leave Campaign whilst highlighting the undemocratic nature of the EU.
 

Mr C

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I can't bear that woman, before she was a minister and she used to appear on QT, any pressure and she'd lose her temper.

Did you see her on the Marr show yesterday? and her U-turn on the NHS visa's while in a crisis wasn't great in my eyes. In fact I just don't agree with any of the proposed policies on imigration, as someone who is an immigrant, so their policies are not helping me personally. But they were voted in on it I guess so F-me :)
 

jsp

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She's pure evil so yeah she'll probably be a front runner to take over from Boris.
 

IDFD

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Surely Rishi Sunak takes over from Boris? He’s the only one coming out of this with any credibility. I took 5/1 for him as next PM after his speech on the 20th announcing the Furlough Scheme.

(Still the exact same price now with no movements).
 

Mr C

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isn't he just a mouthpiece? do as he's told. Isn't that why Sajid left?

I see there is another change going on, Cummings removing all aspects of scrutiny.
 

IDFD

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One thing that is interesting is that 4 months ago the bookies didn’t give Labour a chance of winning an election. The odds on conversatives majority has gone from 1/10 to 8/11.
 

jsp

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I think the Tories will be bricking it over Starmer they'll be desperate for him to get wrapped up in scandal like Corbyn was over the whole anti-Semitism thing.

Rishi Sunak will struggle once the next stage of these recovery plans are announced once the jobs start going and the support network is taken away with an economy in free fall he's going to have to announce some very harsh truths which a lot of people won't forgive him for.

We're 4 years away from an election anyway no way the tories call another early election given how the next 4 years are likely to go labour should be able to destroy the tories just a case of waiting for your moment. My guess is they'll wait until the Brexit deal is done then really start to crank up the pressure on the Tories. If the economy doesn't surge post Brexit then they should have no problem ripping the Tories apart.
 

SuperRash

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You would imagine Raab is the next in line if a new leader was going to come in at any stage? Sunak has done a great job with the furlough scheme and seems like a good guy but like jsp said it’s how he handles the next stage that will determine how he’s looked upon going forward.

Been very impressed with Starmer so far, a long long way to go before I think Labour could usurp the Tories but they’ve definitely got the right man for the job in my opinion.
 

jsp

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The only real threat to Boris for the next 4 years is Boris himself if he loses the support of the party they could oust him but I don't see that happening unless he does something extremely stupid and has to fall on his own sword.

He needs to deliver on his promises he's promised an end to austerity in the northern cities that the Tories took he wants to build, build, build so he needs to start getting on with that build the schools and hospitals he promised people along with HS2 and he northern rail links he's also promised.

Labour also need to find a way of getting some seats back in Scotland from the likes of the SNP but given everything that's going on the SNP are likely to continue to gather strength as a party over the next 5 years and keep pushing for that second referendum especially if Brexit is a disaster. If Brexit goes well then they might be able to weaken the SNP in Scotland.
 

Mr C

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I think the biggest risk to Boris is Cummings. That man is dangerous.
 

Shoot

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So, regardless of thread title I think this should include devolved governments.
Scotland's Nicola Sturgeon has announced that Scotland will maintain the 2m rule and face masks will be mandatory to go shopping from July 10th.
Whats behind this? Is it the right and sensible approach to be taking? or is political gain and/or a moral high ground being sought?
 

Mr C

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I like how Sturgeon has performed during this crisis.
 

IDFD

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I think it’s probably a bit of both. I think we should all be wearing mask in public places as they reduce the spread of the virus but that she’s also implementing it because of the fact she can take advantage of the fact the bumbling idiot in Westminster hasn’t.
 

jsp

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Scotland do seem to be taking things a bit slower in terms of re opening but they also stopped a lot more people from working.

I guess it’s horses for courses if the NHS is a bit more stretched in Scotland then it may be they need to be a bit more cautious to protect everyone.
 

Shoot

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Scotland do seem to be taking things a bit slower in terms of re opening but they also stopped a lot more people from working.

I guess it’s horses for courses if the NHS is a bit more stretched in Scotland then it may be they need to be a bit more cautious to protect everyone.
I'm not convinced the NHS was more stretched in Scotland unless I have missed something. I though the cases were relatively low?
 

jsp

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I'm not convinced the NHS was more stretched in Scotland unless I have missed something. I though the cases were relatively low?
Meant in its ability to cope with high numbers.

Assumed there’s less beds per person and longer distance to a hospital in Scotland than England so it’s more important to keep the spread to a lower rate. Purely an assumption nothing to support it just assumed that’s why they were being more cautious than they were being advised to be by Westminster.

Do you think she’s being political with decision making to try and show her power off?
 

Shoot

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Meant in its ability to cope with high numbers.

Assumed there’s less beds per person and longer distance to a hospital in Scotland than England so it’s more important to keep the spread to a lower rate. Purely an assumption nothing to support it just assumed that’s why they were being more cautious than they were being advised to be by Westminster.

Do you think she’s being political with decision making to try and show her power off?
I do think their is a bit of political posing going on yes. I am no great political expert, but its not hard to work out that Hollyrood is not under the same pressure or spotlight as Westminster where economy recovery is concerned. So Scotland probably has better scope for being precious about keeping people safe.
 

jsp

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I do think their is a bit of political posing going on yes. I am no great political expert, but its not hard to work out that Hollyrood is not under the same pressure or spotlight as Westminster where economy recovery is concerned. So Scotland probably has better scope for being precious about keeping people safe.
Don’t really know how much power she actually holds under the devolved government I mean surely Westminster will really determine the economic recovery because they’ll be the ones deciding the grants and tax breaks for businesses across the UK.

I have found it a bit odd that she’s been going out every day and giving a briefing very similar to the Westminster one almost making the most of a captive audience. She’s been able to play the opponent to Boris a lot easier than the actual leader of the opposition has been able to during this.

I don’t believe they’ve been doing daily briefings in Wales or Northern Ireland for example and they’ve done similar to Scotland in re opening more cautiously.

I do think the time will come for the government to really be called to task over how they’ve handled it and Starmer and Sturgeon (the SAS) will go to town on them. Our lockdown was late, it was also lame and if will no doubt be longer than other european nations who seem to get on top of it much quicker, took tougher measures and as a result came back out in a better position than we have.
 

Shoot

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There is to be an independent inquiry into how the Government handled the Covid 19 crisis. I don't think they will come out of it too well.
It cannot be ignored that many people lost loved ones and many of these deaths could have been prevented had the Government acted sooner and more decisively.
 

jsp

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The government also demanding a review of the way covid deaths are counted by public health England.

Let’s squeeze that number down before we get questioned.

They were caught sleeping at the wheel. They were warned, they did nothing, by the time they did it was panic and as a result the virus killed more people than it should have.
 

Shoot

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Even now I don't think they are getting much right. What's the point in announcing that face masks will become compulsory in shops from 24th July.
Why not now?
 

jsp

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Think with something like that you do need to give notice so people have a chance to buy a mask the advice should be we want you to start doing this now and by the 24th it will be compulsory with a fine if you don’t do it. No one around to enforce these fines though will be the problem.

All these idiots saying they won’t wear them because it’s against their freedom are beyond parody it’s a bit of cloth over your face FFS
 

Shoot

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All very well, so why didn’t they announce it a week before shops opening?
 

IDFD

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It should have been announced back in March.

But I actually think one of the main reasons for the introduction is a visual reminder to people that this very much still exist as people seem to have dropped back to normal behaviours. Especially in my town. Some pubs are rammed with social distancing out of the window.
 

jsp

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One of our pubs has threatened to close if people don't start respecting the rules the landlord said he had groups of 20 people turning up at his pub over the weekend. He doesn't have a booking system but he said dealing with big groups of drunks is a ticking time bomb in the town. One of our pubs didn't even take your name and number when I went in the other week I thought that was a legal requirement under the new rules.

Yeah I was surprised the masks didn't become compulsory much earlier even in supermarkets but with supply short they probably wanted to avoid more panic.

I guess the idea was they wanted to force people to stay home if you say you can go out if you wear a mask people will think that gives them a get out of jail free card.

Now they need us to start coming out of our homes it makes sense to ask people to wear masks in public.
 

Mr C

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it's ok, it will all be back to normal by Christmas o_O

The government has made mistake after mistake, the biggest one for me was not sacking Cummings, that gave the green light to loads. If he can do it we can etc.
 

Shoot

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So Boris is in Scotland bigging up the importance of "The Union". Seems there has been an upsurge in Scotland for independence, hopefully he can turn that round. The Union in my opinion is hugely important.
Hopefully under Starmer the Labour party can re-establish itself and start taking some Scottish seats of SNP to dull their momentum where independence is concerned.
 

jsp

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Do you think the independence movement is largely an anti tory position or is it a genuine we want total independence?

Was independence even on the agenda when Labour were in charge?

If there was another referendum I think the Scots would go the out argument is always an easier one to win that the in argument as it's basically free reign to promise what you want whereas the in argument is basically saying lets keep it as it is.
 

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