Spurs hunt for new manager

jsp

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So far it looks like the following managers have turned them down

Rodgers
Poch
Conte

Where do they go next?

With the recent reshuffle of a lot of managers you feel like they need to get it sorted quickly so the manager can prepare with pre season
 

Cruella ne Ville

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If the reported reasons Conte had for turning them down are to be believed, Spurs wanted him to play the kids and weren't in a rush to win anything. How they believed they belonged in a European Super League is beyond me.

The longer their search goes on, the more likely it is that they go in house or take a punt on a Howe or a Nuno.

EDIT: Also, this can't bode well for Kane's future either.
 

SuperRash

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Think they’ve dodged a bullet with Conte. No doubting his pedigree but I don’t think his style of football would have gone down to well there.

The latest links are Ten Hag and Roberto Martinez but just paper talk I suspect. They’ll end up with Harry Redknapp at this rate!
 

jsp

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Have they got a crop of talented kids to come in and build around over next few seasons?

Surely if they did we’d have seen some of them at points this season.
 

IDFD

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Troy Parrott and Oliver Skipp are the only two they really rave about. Sessegnon to come back from loan.
 

jsp

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Yeah they signed Rodon from Swansea last summer as well.

Going to be a hard rebuild if Kane goes surely Son will follow he’s not going to commit he might have to wait 12 months but he will want out too.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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So, there's been a lot of chatter about managers doing the carousel across Europe, or the competencies of our own baby-faced assassin, and it got me thinking. How important is the manager in the modern game? Is there such a thing as a super manager? Can a top manager succeed anywhere they go?

Supporters (not just ours) tend to believe that when things aren't going well, they should change the manager, and he'll change the formation and tactics or motivate them better and the same group of players will get better results. Sometimes that happens, case in point Tuchel at Chelsea. Sometimes it doesn't, Mason at Spurs.

In England, we've traditionally had success with one man for a long time (Busby, Fergie, Paisley, Shankly, Wenger) who built the squad and turned his club into a powerhouse over a long period of years. On the continent, managers like Capello, Ancelotti moved from club to club, often within the same league, winning a few trophies and moving on.

Obviously there's no way of knowing, but could Fergie have moved from club to club in the same way and still had the same success? Could Capello have stayed at Milan for 26 years and built the same dynasty that Fergie did? I don't think so. Fergie's main strength was man management and an eye for talent (midfield notwithstanding) while Capello and Ancelotti were tacticians.

Is a managers ability to be successful dependent on their circumstances more than their abilities? Take Pep for example. Can't lose in Europe with Barca, and can't win without them despite domestic dominance with Bayern and City. Barca have won without Pep though. Would any other manager have had the same European success as Zidane at Madrid? Will he be able to replicate the same successes at Juve or PSG, or was he the right man with the right skill set for that particular group of players and the situation Madrid were in when he took over?

Conversely, switch Pep (top of the league) with Chris Wilder (bottom). How many points worse are City? How many points better are SU? And, are SU better than City are worse? As in, how much better would SU be with a better manager, and could a top manager replicate his magic without the circumstances he's orchestrated at City?

Management is much more than tactics and formations, as Jose is finding out the hard way. Cheat code wins until suddenly he wasn't anymore. Managing egos and personalities not only in the squad but in the board are extremely important as well. Over time, a long term manager will have complied a squad with players he can get along with (for the most part) and have the conditions around them to be successful. Somebody like Pep brought it all with him (City built to attract him). I wonder if those conditions are necessary for a manager to ultimately have success, and if they're more important than the manager to that success?
 

jsp

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There’s a widely thought of theory now that every 3 years you need a change of manager or a significant change of players as the group need a new voice/message. At most clubs this is a change of manager rather than change of players due to the cost of the player option. It felt like with Pochettino that it needed a fresh face but they went with the wrong man.

Intensity is such a huge part of the modern game and the top managers seem to be very demanding and intense characters which is why the players can quickly grow tired of a manager.

The top clubs tend to retain a big group of high quality players take Chelsea for example Tuchel had so many players to pick from not all got chances but there’s so much to work with he was quickly able to assemble a winning team. I think that’s why top managers can go in and out of these big clubs and quickly get results as they know there isn’t a huge amount they need to change.

Spurs like Utd a few seasons ago now have reached a crossroads it’s quite clear that the standard of the squad is miles from the top sides it is going to need a slow and patient rebuild. It needs a manager that can sell that to fans and play a style that they will stay behind and stick with.

They did that with Poch and it nearly delivered trophies but it feels like this is another rebuild.
 

IDFD

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It all depends on the club. At United the manager is the most important person at the club. At Chelsea the manager is probably the 10th most important person at the club.

For me a manager should be allowed to come in, create his team and given time to make it work. I have no doubt Ole is doing a great job. We've not had a striker through out most of his time here. He's changed the attitude in the dressing room, got rid of the high earners and moved us forward at the same time.

There is more to the game than just results and it's clear to me Ole is making steps forwards. Compare him to Arteta at Arsenal, or Lampard at Chelsea and it's unquestionable now whose doing the better job.
 

Mr C

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3 good posts above

The long term manager has only really worked in very few cases, mostly throughout the years English clubs are searching for that type of manager I think, I guess Moyes could be included at Everton, and Howe at Bournmouth, albeit with limited success. But they are all searching for that level of continuity and success.

But since the arival of the premier league, it's all about the money. Being relegated, missing top 4 or 6 has huge financial implications and the easiest/cheapest change to make is the manager. And the managers that manage to pull off that saving the relegation, all seem to have a similar style, defend in numbers, lump it up. That doesn't work over a full season really. And those players are limited in their abilities, could they play in a Pep team. No, or he would buy them. So I don't think he could manage a lower positioned team. Likewise, Pulis or Big Sam, they aren't going to be able to manage elite players.

And I personally think the trigger is pulled too soon in many cases, a bit like the Ole out brigade. Not many cubs have the squad of Chelsea for a Tuchel to come into. The amount of money they spent last summer I guess a CL win is the minimum they could have expected. Tuchel isn't going to walk into Fulham and save them.

Do I think Ferge could manage in the era of social media? I don't think so, these players now have teams of people around them that he wouldn't be able to manage or control.

The manager in Europe has seemed to be less important and is more disposable, and I think this is now how the English clubs will go, much like Cheslea. City were doing it pre Pep too, but you don't bin the best manager around.

Pep and his Barca CL success and ZZ with his, that is down to two special players in my opinion. Take them out and those teams don't look so scary. I don't think ZZ will be able to repeat that success myself.

As for Spurs, they should get Nunes or Howe and accept Kane is off. Levy wants 150m, could buy some good players for that.
 

jsp

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I think the issue is Spurs fans are restless they got so close with Poch that they now believe they should be challenging for trophies and they've been starved of a trophy for a long time.

Like Arsenal they're being asked to pay sky high ticket prices for that they expect a good team but right now they haven't got one and judging by the size of the job on their hands it'll be a few seasons before they get one. It looks like some long hard years in that brand new stadium which to be truely viable needs to have the big CL nights played there. Given the current climate around football they must be bricking it that a lot of loyal fans won't renew and will call it a day.

I guess the sell Kane and reinvest plan brings back some painful memories for Spurs fans over Bale he was sold and with that money they signed 7 players quite a few were expensive flops. How many 7/10 players does it take to replace 1 truly 10/10 player in Kane? That lad not only scores most of the goals he also creates them for Son.

How do you attract these players to come to Spurs? For Spurs to succeed like a lot of clubs they need to go and spot these under valued talents in other leagues and get them in early like Leicester have done.
 

Mr C

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Also I suppose, looking back, were those stadium builds just too expensive for Spurs and Arsenal.

I don't think Spurs will ever have the money to get big players, they won't pay the fee or the wage. They need a manager/back team who can find those players or coach players to the next level.

and to bring him up again, I don't think Ole gets enough credit for how players have improved under him.
 

jsp

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I think the stadiums are inevitable costs that a football club has to deal with at some point Spurs revenues at the old ground meant they couldn't compete same way Arsenal couldn't compete at Highbury. You need owners who able to weather that storm over the long haul though.

What Spurs have done with incorporating the NFL into the stadium could make them fortunes as well and it's certainly tapped into an executive market that they couldn't tap into at the old ground. From what I understand the corporate packages are the ones with the biggest profit margins on them.

The issue for Spurs is no matter how well they run their operation it's unlikely they can generate the income Utd/Liverpool generate and then there's 2 clubs with rich benefactors owners. So for them to win the league they need to absolutely nail every decision over a 3 or 4 season period and pray that these big boys all have an off season at the same time like they did the year Leicester did.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I find this interesting because we've mentioned all sorts of other factors that can impede a manager from being successful. Like @IDFD alluded to, there has to be someone at the club who is implementing a vision on the playing side. At United that was the manager, at Chelsea, who knows, but somebody is doing it, and the manager is more of a first team coach.

Finances are obviously going to make a manager more successful, but Zidane didn't turn Madrid around by spending. He was almost the anti-Benitez, and his style was such a foil for what the players were used to that it apparently worked. Had he taken over from Ancelotti he probably doesn't have the same effect. Ditto had Tuchel taken over from Mourinho at Spurs or us, and yet PSG tried the same thing by bringing in Poch after Tuchel and it didn't work as well.

Zidane has street cred from his exploits as a player. Pep/Klopp/Fergie all earned their cred as a manager, which is why players buy in and listen to them. Yet, the likes of Keane and Gattuso did as well, and it hasn't helped.

I really think there's something to be said about a specific manager being the right person for a specific job at a specific point in time. Long term managers like Fergie or Wenger built those clubs over time and slowly created the conditions for their success. Nowadays, you don't have that luxury and need those conditions to be present when you arrive. I'm also not sure what those conditions are, which is why I'm fascinated by it all.
 

jsp

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Zidane succeeded because unlike Benitez he had the fans on his side for his fairly pragmatic style so when he benched big stars no one questioned it. He had a great squad of players but he knew how to play them to get the best results which his results shows and even with Ronaldo in that side Zidane was still just as big with fans.

As for Spurs they rely on managers to set the vision Poch was an evolution from AVB similar styles but maybe a bit more aggression from the Poch side than the AVB one. They totally ripped up that style bringing in Mourinho and his methods which I think has sent them backwards fast the next manager needs to be more in the Poch style get than the Mourinho style.

I don’t think you can rely on a manager to set your identity anymore it needs to be deep rooted in your club and while a coach can put their twist on it the identity of the club needs to be remain intact.
 

jsp

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Looks like Fonseca is the new front runner for the job.

Not the man many Spurs fans would have hoped for but he's got a decent reputation in Europe so lets see how he goes that Roma side we played were fun to watch just awful at the back.

They've also hired an ex Juventus director as their new sporting director Fabio Paratici sounds like it's a new role rather than replacing someone already within the club. He was Chief Football Officer at Juventus for 11 years so he comes with a good CV.
 

Mr C

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everyone turning them down, I guess becasue Kane is going, so will Son probably. And Levy will keep all the money

I tell you what though, I'd take Son in a heartbeat
 

jsp

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Got to know your level really, Spurs can pay a handsome wage but it's also a club that can tarnish your reputation lets be honest Mourinho went there because his reputation was in the toilet.

You've got fans who are unhappy with the owner.
A squad that needs improving
No money to make those improvements.
A chairman who's known for dithering in the transfer market and leaving his managers short of players.
Your best player wants to leave this summer and if he goes others will look to follow.

If you're a top manager you probably take a pass on Spurs right now unless you just fancy a pay off because right now that club isn't looking like it's ready to bounce back from 2 seasons of decline.

That is why like they did with Poch I think they need to look for a younger manager who given a bit of time can build something up
 

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