Racism in Today's Multi Cultural Society

So basically what you’re saying is you aren’t willing to discuss the elements of BLM you don’t agree with? You just want a nice little tick box you do agree with. Not that you’ve mentioned any you disagree with yet.

this is ridiculous, do I have to discuss EDL whenever I talk about Brexit? just because an extreme group jumps on to the badwagon.
 
BLMUK isn't 'an extreme' jumping on the bandwagon. It's the main movement where all of the donations are going and the representation that discusses and organises the protest.

The main political arm of the movement in this country. Those that are coming up with what the end game is for all of these protest.
 
The Brexit party then, who pretty much started Brexit.

Do I have to list all the racist things they have said.

Does that make every Brexiteer a racist. Because they get donations too.
 
I don't think the brexit party were advertised on every single football shirt in the country leading to millions more in donations only to then have to come out and say 'actually we only agree with part of it'. Football shouldn't be advertising an Anti Semitic political movement.

However you're never going to agree on that and will like Linekar. When following a movement you don't get to pick and choose only their good bits without accepting you blindly accept the bits you don't like too.

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It's pointless to continue this conversation as you aren't going to accept that BLMUK lead the Black Lives Matter campaign and are intrinsically linked.

EDIT: We're never going to come to an agreement on this. As I see BLM as a political movement and you see it as a simple race message (A message I agree with) so it's best we leave this here.

Though I probably would say those voting for the Brexit Party probably were racist and those that just wanted Brexit lended their votes to the conservatives. Anyone freely voting for Farage knew exactly what they were doing. I don't think anyone without racist tendencies could vote for a party he was a part of.
 
The football shirts say black lives matter

Not BLMUK or UKBLM etc. etc.
 
The thing is it shouldn’t be a ‘tricky organisation to understand’ if there were no underlying motives then it would be fairly simple.

Black Lives Matter. There wouldn’t be this desire to remove prison services or defund UK police with a desire to cause anarchy it would be one simple and united message of racism needs to stop. Regardless of which race it was against and who was being hurt. There should be no need for any other message underneath. They shouldn’t be trying to educate people that ‘Police = Bad’

As for who will be in power for the next 5 years. That’s another thing they should be trying to focus on and educate. Getting black youths and the poorer in society in to the voting booths. There is a mass difference between the percentages of those that vote between the rich and poor that allows the current situation to continue. But then it also falls back to the way both us and the US hold our elections and the systems we use too.

I think that comes from it's roots I don't think it was ever intended to become a political movement it was a reaction to some pretty horrible actions by the police in America it was created to make noise. So it was never really setup to become what it has become and all sorts of groups have been able to come in and use the BLM name for whatever agenda it is that they are pushing.

It's the same with any sort of political movement you always get some extreme hardcore believers and you get some move liberal minded people so the message gets very mixed it happens on the far right and on the far left. As you say it would be much easier if there was one voice on this and they clearly say what they want to achieve and try to suppress the extreme ideas that they don't actually want to stand for but that isn't an easy thing to do now.

I think Obama gave a lot of black people hope in America but reality even in his two terms he didn't really change much in terms of sorting out race problems in America he ended up doing the same sort of things the white guys before him had done. He basically shafted the people of flint by not sorting out the water poisoning problem and supporting the governors who basically poisoned an entire town by building a needless new water supply.

Voter apathy is a big problem the idea that no matter who we elect nothing changes so don't bother voting is a big problem because that way of doing things means parties will put up the same policies and the same candidates every time because they know they'll get the votes from the people who actually turn up.
 
BLM go after Kier Starmer now

'As a public prosecutor, Sir Kier Starmer was a cop in an expensive suit. While black people are now incarcerated at the same rate as African Americans, the prison population in Britain has almost doubled since the 1980s. This has affected all working class people in Britain.'
 
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I think we've established BLMUK is not the same as the BLM movement, or UKBLM etc. It's just the one you focus on.
 
BLMUK is the official UK BLM movement and the ones the police and politicians are in discussions with. And again the ones that all the money and support is going towards. I’m unsure why you resist accepting that when it’s what’s happening.

But as you don’t want to accept they’re aligned. Just go and look at the BLM movement and their anti Jewish sentiments from 2016. Or their proposals mirroring the BLMUK’s demands released yesterday.

We haven’t established anything. You’ve just realised you don’t actually agree with everything they say so are suggesting they’re a different arm. When the straight forward truth is they aren’t.
 
I don't agree with anything that promotes any kind of discrimination in any form.

I would have thought that was obvious.

I have said that the BLM protests are a good thing. If it ends the racism in our society. I have not changed a thing, you however bring everything down to one particular group to prove your point that one group is responsible for all the problem in our society. I haven't promoted or agreed with any group.

This recent spat on here all started because some black kids fought police when a lockdown party was broken up. I was pointing out that it shouldn't be on here, it was just one many crimes comitted at lockdown parties across the country, and putting it on here was racist. It was saying this people are members of a particular group with absolutely no evisdence, just skin colour. Even if they were shouting black lives matter (which they weren't) it doesn't associate them with that group.

Also, I don't see anything anywhere that says they are any sort of official group for anything. They are one of many groups it looks like to me. They might promote themselves the best or whatever. I don't see their logo on any photo's of any march, I can't see anything where they organised they marches. They just seem like a bunch of people who have jumped onto a badwagon and got lucky with a gofundme page. Probably because people haven't actually read their bio or twitter feed. Or maybe they confused them with UKBLM. Who knows. I don't speculate or guess to suit my thought patterns.

I couldn't find where the gov are meeting that group, where did you see that?

I just found another group BLMM they also, like BLMUK, refute the UKBLM's claims
 
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yes, it does seem that one particular group is not helping anything.
 
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That ‘group’ has the same has the same stance as the main arm of the BLM movement. Which is what you aren’t seeming to grasp. Other latch ons may say they disagree with it but they’re the ones aligned with the main movement and the ones pocketing millions.
 
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That ‘group’ has the same has the same stance as the main arm of the BLM movement. Which is what you aren’t seeming to grasp. Other latch ons may say they disagree with it but they’re the ones aligned with the main movement and the ones pocketing millions.


so all the marchers and protesters are anti semites? what you are not seeing is the phrase black lives matter does affiliate you with any group. If you had BLMUK then that's a different story. The phrase black lives matter is not exclusive.
 
The phrase black lives matter definitely affiliates you with the group black lives matter. As I said it’s important to distinguish distinguish between the message and the group but the messages is still that pushed by the group and their following don’t realise what they’re advocating.
 
ok, so I went on the BLM wiki page, it does say loads of ambiguous groups use the slogan.


On the wiki page I hit the webiste


On the website I went through about 5 pages, yes they mention defunding the police, but we have discussed that here. It basically means use the money better, distribute the money to other areas that might redcue crime. It's not quite as the headline would make you think.

It does not deviate from the fact, people protesting using the phrase black lives matter does not affiliate them with any group. How do you know what group they support to start?


To be honest I can't be bothered reading it, I don't care whatever some group thinks. I care what I think. And I think everybody should be equal.
 
To be honest I can't be bothered reading it, I don't care whatever some group thinks. I care what I think. And I think everybody should be equal.

And that’s the important thing and all that should really matter. Not defunding of the police. Not abolishing capitalism. Not removing all prisons. All people being treated as equal.

But people need to be careful in what political groups they get caught up in funding and supporting.
 

I think much like the footballer yesterday said this needs a politically neutral organisation to lead the way.

The FA have a very good anti-racist body and they should have continued to push that note. Kick It Out is what should be advertised and used in football instead of aligning themselves (even if not deliberately) with a political aim.
 
Not everyone supports kick it out though some of the black players think it's to close to the governing body.

Rio refused to wear the shirts because he didn't think they supported his brother over the John Terry thing as they were afraid to call out a player for being racist.

I do agree if BLM UK is going to get this support from the players and the media in the way it has they need to be very clear about what they want, how they want to achieve it and also who they actually are.
 
Well, having spent a very busy week in Somerset I haven't had a great deal of exposure to the news. Catching up now I see the black boys are still up to their games. Trying to turn their estates into no go areas for the police and in general acting in a totally lawless manner, the latest incident being the early hours of this morning when brick, rocks and bottles were rained on police for trying to put a stop to an illegal music event following complaints from the public.

As long as these outlaws continue to behave like that they will continue to stoke the fires of racism in the white population. If they don't want to be part of a civilised society then why should they be accepted and considered equals regardless of race, colour or creed?
 
Wasn’t there so don’t really know what actually happened but it seems the police decided to send coppers in riot gear steaming into a street party where there was no reports of violence but people enjoying themselves but making to much noise.

We see the exact same stuff from white boys at football year after year when the police go in heavy people fight back.

You have to ask why weren’t a few officers sent in to end it calmly before sending in the heavies if that approach doesn’t work.
 
Because last time they did that they were attacked and defenceless. Can’t keep making that same mistake.
 
Football thuggery is a different issue. Why don't you start a thread on it?
You really are away with the fairies at times. Maybe they should send a couple of PCSO's up with a bag of balloons and ask them to turn the music down a bit.
 
Football thuggery is a different issue. Why don't you start a thread on it?
You really are away with the fairies at times. Maybe they should send a couple of PCSO's up with a bag of balloons and ask them to turn the music down a bit.

Why not start a thread about street parties?

You’re making it a black thing I’m saying it’s not a black thing because when confronted with a strong police response white people act like twats too. So it’s not a race thing it’s a society thing.

The police need to do something about these parties to stop them popping up in the first place do more proactive things than reactive because the reactive method results in this. It will now be a contest amongst rival estates to chase the police off if they try and shutdown your party. Sound familiar to the sort of things we’ve seen historically amongst football firms.

These communities need to take some responsibility to and stop these parties being acceptable in their community they know they shouldn’t be doing it and they know what will happen if they do but as we saw with football violence through the 80s those doing it didn’t really care about the consequences.

Going in cracking skulls week after week isn’t going to solve the problem.
 
Police have done something about the parties. They’ve put a ban on all outdoor drinking in Hackney as of today.
 
You’re making it a black thing I’m saying it’s not a black thing because when confronted with a strong police response white people act like twats too. So it’s not a race thing it’s a society thing.
I just say what I see, and what I see is a large gathering of predominately black people in an area highly populated by black people, attacking police with bricks and bottles for responding to their unlawful behaviour that has attracted numerous resident complaints.
This is very much the common theme in all the social unrest we have been witnessing in recent times. So it is a black thing.
 
After yesterday’s F1 race with 6 of the 20 drivers not taking a knee as they say they’re against racism but taking a knee isn’t something they agree with.

If you worked in a profession where they wanted you to take the knee would you take part?

Do you think it’s fair some of the comments saying if you’re silent you’re complicit and accusing those racers not taking a knee of being racist?
 
I think by making it a big staged event prior to games you are singling out those that don't want to take part this could even include black people in some sports who don't agree with everything the BLM group campaigns for. My guess is quite a few players don't really know what it's about, probably don't even really care they just do it because they're told to do it as it's part of the pre game show now. If you don't know what it's for and don't support it should you really do it?

We've seen it before in the UK with the poppy every year we have the same of stuff about James McLean not wearing one and there's probably a few others who feel the same but don't want to be singled out. How many players actually know what the minutes silence or applause we have before some games is even for? Most players just go along with it all as they don't want to get the rep of being a trouble maker.

I do find it a little bit odd that everyone is still taking the knee before every game but I guess that's sort of the point don't do it once then forget about it keep reminding people but it's all become very staged which makes it less meaningful than the spontaneous stuff we saw in the NFL.

Do they plan to do it before every F1 race this season?
 
One thing that was very noticeable was that Lewis Hamilton was wearing a ‘Black Lives Matter’ t-shirt. The rest all chose to wear an ‘end racism’ T-shirt. Lewis did make a point to say his Black Lives Matter T-shirt is supporting the message not the political movement and it’s important to keep the two separated.

Leclerc and Verstappen both made statements before hand saying they wouldn’t be taken a knee but stand united with the fight against racism but this isn’t the way they want to take action.

I’m not sure about if it’s a one off or a thing for every race.
 
I think a lot of clubs and businesses who joined in to support the BLM movement have said similar things they support the message around racism not the more political messages that have become a part of it as it's evolved.

Will be interesting to see when fans return to grounds if this taking the knee thing continues how will they react to it.

I guess the likes of Hamilton will still wear the T-Shirt around the paddock and he may decide to take a knee on the podium as well as before the race.
 
Why not start a thread about street parties?
My post isnt about street parties, its about how the behaviour of these people is actually counter productive in any stance against racism. It does the total opposite and creates racism.
 
My post isnt about street parties, its about how the behaviour of these people is actually counter productive in any stance against racism. It does the total opposite and creates racism.

So what we're saying is to tackle racism black people need to act like absolute saints all the time while white people are allowed to get up to what they want?

I know that's an extreme bit of what you're saying but what you are suggesting is that because a minority within the black community cause trouble the whole community gets dragged down. Surely that just proves racism exists because the people who form these opinions based on the action of a few people are judging every black person by that standard in a negative way.
 

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