Premier League 2020-21: Manchester United vs Newcastle (Sun 21st Feb - 7pm)

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We keep making fairly toothless teams look good. They should pay us a bonus because they get a bunch of great clips for their highlights reels when they play us.
 
Not sure how much else he's meant to do coming backwards on to the ball. Doesn't help he was the only player defending the box.

I can see why people that look to criticise him would jump on it but think it's extremely harsh. Possibly could have put it out for a corner? What else could he have done?

But he gets his head on the ball gets it out and where is any other player that should be reacting? Why's he the only United player in the danger area. Shocking defending again.
I’d tend to agree with this. He’s the new scape goat, so everything he touches must instantly turn to fecal matter. Nobody wants to mention Fred for some reason, but he just lets ASM have that show uncontested bc he’s in the middle of a power nap.
 
It was a terrible header by Maguire, it looked like he was trying to head it in another direction.
IDFD if that had been lindelof you'd be slaughtering him.
 
I'd have been slaughtering the players around him. I've only seen it the once and when I went to rewind it after people said Maguire was terrible it'd already passed the hour mark but to me Maguire gets his head on it running back towards his own goal and there isn't a single United player alert to the second ball or anywhere to be seen in the danger area. Was Lindelof off getting a cup of tea or something?

He does his initial job he deals with the ball in to the box other players have got to do something defensively.

But the same could be said for you. How it's possible to slate Maguire for that but give Lindelof a pass on the West Brom goal last week is unfathomable.

I'll put on motd 2 and reassess my opinion. But still think I'll wonder where the rest of our defence were and why no one reacted to the second ball.
 
I haven't given him a pass, I said it was terrible defending but also a foul.

Maguires header is terrible, you can't put that blame anywhere else. Awful defending. He doesn't even head it where he wants to looking at his head movement. I swear he's got his eyes shut again, difficult to work that out though.

I'm not a lindelof over Maguire fan, they are both proving terrible. Maguire is looking a complete waste of 80m. What bugs me is the amount of grief lundelof gets when Maguire is equally terrible.
 
Just watched it again. He's caught under the ball if he tries to head it out for a corner he risk scoring an own goal so did the only thing he could do with it. It's not good defending but he's done all he can with the position he's trapped in back peddling towards his own goal. Others have to react and seriously where the hell is everyone we are defending a corner!

Watch the corner before hand and the exact same thing happens with Martial and again no one reacts but De Gea makes an excellent save.

Could they have got out quicker perhaps? The problem isn't the header as there isn't much he can do but our general defending of set pieces and a failure to react.
 
Lindelof v WBA was absolutely a foul, but equally rubbish defending. Don’t think there’s a case of Maguire v Lindelof v Bailly (who could’ve just as equally given two early goals away v Sociedad,) I don’t think either of the three are any good. Today, Maguire headed the ball away in the only direction he could, and nobody else reacted. Fred in particular should’ve gotten there or at the very least put ASM off, instead he was off in la la land and was super slow to react. There are plenty of things to blame Maguire for (like the Everton equalizer) but this ain’t one.
 
Would you say he was worse than usual? I ask bc I really don’t understand what he brings deserve the praise he seems to get.
Against Sociedad Fred delivered a raking pass of exquisite beauty. Beyond that, I think Fred has been uniformly awful and should be fighting for a place in the reserves.
 
Just watched it again. He's caught under the ball if he tries to head it out for a corner he risk scoring an own goal so did the only thing he could do with it. It's not good defending but he's done all he can with the position he's trapped in back peddling towards his own goal. Others have to react and seriously where the hell is everyone we are defending a corner!

Watch the corner before hand and the exact same thing happens with Martial and again no one reacts but De Gea makes an excellent save.

Could they have got out quicker perhaps? The problem isn't the header as there isn't much he can do but our general defending of set pieces and a failure to react.
One big difference surely is that the captain should be marshaling forces and calling out danger. Maguire made an error, it happens, we still won. It doesn’t add up to blame all of the others defending that corner and then let off the hook the one who made a mistake. Like most people here, I’ve played plenty with vocal, aggressive captains who make sure everyone is on task: Maguire is not that person.
 
I do think it's time Maguire gets away with stuff because Lindelof is worse line of thinking stops.

Neither are good enough, to think we spent 80 on Maguire is laughable, Leicester did us there. But that is besides the point, all our CB's make too many costly mistakes.

I also put some of the blame at De Gea, but he did make some good saves yesterday, albeit ones I guess he should be making.

Martial yesterday was terrible, I can remember one decent effort, his time at the club has surely gone now.

Still big work needed in the transfer market. Can't see enough getting done in one window to get us up there next season. The awful summer window we just had set us back a season or two for a push for the league.
 
I haven't given him a pass, I said it was terrible defending but also a foul.

Maguires header is terrible, you can't put that blame anywhere else. Awful defending. He doesn't even head it where he wants to looking at his head movement. I swear he's got his eyes shut again, difficult to work that out though.

I'm not a lindelof over Maguire fan, they are both proving terrible. Maguire is looking a complete waste of 80m. What bugs me is the amount of grief lundelof gets when Maguire is equally terrible.
Terrible header? He got as good a contact on it while running towards his own goal as you can get, if he makes contact any other way it flies into his own net. The other option, which isn't an option, is to not make any contact and let the ball fly into the goalmouth. The players behind him were sleeping. How far do you think he should have been able to clear the ball with a flicked back header while moving towards his own goal? You've obviously never played the game.
 
I do think it's time Maguire gets away with stuff because Lindelof is worse line of thinking stops.

As I said I went back and rewatched it there is literally nothing else Maguire could do.

This is a case of you slating a player simply because he's called Maguire and you've got an agenda. Perhaps that should stop.

What is it you expect a back peddling player to be able to do in that position? He deals with the initial ball in and no one is alert to it. Questions should be asked of our defending of set pieces but the header itself he could have done no more. Why are the rest of our defence asleep is the question.
 
I have no agenda against Maguire, I would love our 80m investment to show some kind of form. I don't want to be spending more on our defence when the attacking areas need looking at.

And because you look at it and see no fault, doesn't make it so. I think he should have done better. I still don't believe the ball went where he wanted it to, looking at his head movement, and I swear his eyes are shut which would explain why it didn't go where he wanted. I would have thought the first instinct should be to head it out for a corner, which is what his head movement seems to indicate. Not head it straight back into a danger area.

In fact it was you who brought my attention to it, goal goes in, I come on here and you straight away blame everyone but Maguire, sounded a bit fishy to me. Sounded like trying to pass the buck in defence of player you can't see fault in.

It's not an agenda when our CB's are making so many mistakes. It's a fact, which is why we concede so many goals. They are not good enough. And it's a worry that our scouting team keep getting it so wrong back there.
 
I also think Rashford dived, it was a foul, but he went down after the contact.
 
I'd urge you to rewatch it and think about where the ball goes if a back peddling defender attempts to put it over his goal for a corner.
 
To say I have an agenda is bit of a stretch. Twice this week, you and JSP have posted things on here that I have said like it's a fact when I haven't. JSP on the league position of man utd after the transfer window, and you on this thread saying I didn't say Lindelof was poor for the WBA goal. See below.
If I have an agenda against Maguire over than goal, then so does a lot of the sports press.

Guardian
Saint-Maximin forces a corner with a fizzing shot and from that Maguire heads the ball weakly away and Saint-Maximin once more fizzes it and it’s an equaliser.
Sun
Maguire performed a strange backward header that went straight into the path of Saint-Maximin who caught it on the full as he blasted a shot into the roof of the net.
BBC
Allan Saint-Maximin then scored a deserved equaliser with his first goal since coming back from a two-month absence caused by coronavirus symptoms, slamming in after Harry Maguire failed to clear.
Sky
Newcastle took another short corner and Willock sent in a cross that Harry Maguire headed into the path of Saint-Maximin to lash past De Gea on the half volley.
ESPN
The visitors, who had looked more likely to break the deadlock, hit back six minutes later when Allan Saint-Maximin took advantage of a poor clearance by Harry Maguire and swept the ball into the roof of the net

VAR are meant to review every goal, how they deem an attacker can cover up the defenders eyes is beyond me.

But it wasn't Lindelofs only error.

It's a foul, I don't care what Neville says, but lindelof did worse during that game. Show the rest of the tosh, not where he was fouled.
 
I think there is an agenda against Maguire. It reminds me of the early Fletcher years. Everything jumped on.

As for the Lindelof yeah you very generously called it a foul instead of slamming the player and you best believe you'd have been slamming the player and not calling it a foul had that been on Maguire. Wondering why he's just stood there and not dealt with it.

The only other two options Maguire had yesterday were head it towards his goal or leave it. Both of which you'd have slammed him for. He's got pinned under the ball and couldn't have done anything else.

It's not a stretch at all. You're looking at the situation and ignoring what happened around simply so you can slate Maguire. Not even taking in to account that there is no one else defending the box with him, he's back peddling, no one else reacts to the second ball.
 
as I said, I have no agenda against any of our players, I just happen to think none of our CB's are good enough. I could have printed many more reporsts re: Maguire yesterday, so to say I have an agenda agaisnt him is just wrong. Literally every press report is the same.

And yes I did say it was a foul, (WBA) becasue it was, I also said he should have done better, and he did plenty worse things during the game, hardly a glowing report I have given Lindelof there. So I bring up both their faults, but you ignore the ones I say about Lindelof and somehow try and turn them as if I am actually praising him, and then use this in your defence agaisnt Maguire. It makes no sense, you literally don't seem to be able to accept any critisism of Maguire and turn everything towards Lindelof.

Let me repeat once and for all, none of our centre backs are of the quality we require. They need to up their game or get sold. At a loss no doubt.

Yesterday, the goal is of course a matter of opinion, no one is actually correct. I happen to agree with the football press, you don't. But the point here is, you can't say I have an agenda against Maguire when in fact most if not all the press are printing the same.

If you are going to continue saying I have an agenda against Maguire, I'd rather the correct fact be used in that I have an agenda against all our CB's. I am not just picking on Maguire like you suggest. But I don't think it's an agenda, it's just pointing out how incompetant they are. Currently.
 
The football press say Maguire made a backwards or poor header that landed at the feet on ASM?

That's true he does. The question is does that place him at the blame for the goal or was there nothing else he could do in that position.

Now I've asked what you'd like him to do. Apparently just score an own goal is the better option. Do you not think there should be someone else helping defend the box? or that one of our players should have reacted to the header? Do you think risking the own goal is the route he should have taken? You're ignoring it situation and solely looking at the header in isolation.
 
well I don't think I should keep retyping the same thing.

I think he should have headed it out for a corner. Which it what it looks like, body position, he was trying to do. But it looks like he has his eyes shut and it hits the wrong side of his head, putting into the box. It hits his top right of the head, if it had hit the centre it would have gone for a corner or at least in that direction. I'd be even more shocked if he actually meant to put the ball there.
 
I'll agree to disagree because it's not going to go anywhere.

You've placed the blame at Maguire and can't see that there is nothing else he could do in the situation. I watched it over and over after it was suggested. He tries to head that over for a corner whilst back peddling and he better hope De Gea can make a good save from his poor thinking.

100% Maguire's fault and no one should be defending the second balls in a United shirt and he should be super human and be able to head the ball for miles whilst running towards his own goal and caught under the ball.
 
Again, don't think I said it was wholly Maguires fault, so I am being misrepresented again. I said it was awful defending by him.

It's a terrible header by Maguire

Why are 3 united players marking one Newcastle player is another point.

Why didn't, I think Matic or Greenwood, take control.

At least one of those two should be on the scorer, ASM.

It's a litany of errors, doesn't remove the fact Maguire should have done much better.
 
Maguire is stretching and heading it to an extent blind he's just hoping that the flick on takes it away from whoever might be coming in behind him and that it lands in an area of little danger. It's a gamble and he's unlucky that it lands to their striker who finishes it well.

Maguire will probably be annoyed at how he's handled that situation but in the circumstances I think you always head that ball away from goal rather than try to head it out for a corner.

Newcastle caused us quite a few problems on set pieces in the first half yesterday which is a worry it's certainly an area that as a team we are not doing well enough in.
 
Also, we are bit over reliant on Bruno in the other direction.

Newcastle have improved since bringing in Graeme Jones, they seem a bit more attack focused
 
I thought once we got our heads on and basically woke up from our slumbers the game was easy for us the issue was both halves we were awful for 10 minutes.

You can see the team is fragile mentally you've got a centre forward he's just misssing and not involved in the game, James isn't really going to hurt you if he has no space to run into and the two central midfield players are no better on the ball than our two centre backs.

The positive was Rashford looked confident on the left again scored his goal and won the penalty I think he was the main man going forward miles better when he plays left side but the rest of the team just wasn't functioning at all.
 
Indeed, we need to stop this Rashford on the right nonsense. It's purely to accomodate an ineffective Martial.

The Pogba issue needs resolution doesn't it, I again read Raiola is still trying to shift hm, which is a shame.
 
Yeah it's a long road back just think how many of our players would actually start at City? Shaw, Rashford and probably Bruno on current form I don't think you can even make a case for anyone else as they're just so much better in every area of the pitch.

I haven't really read anything about Pogba in a while it's all been very quiet here about his future feels a bit like the club are resigned to him going which is fine just got to get the best deal we can and move on but you can see how important he is to this team when he's at his best but we've just not seen that anywhere near enough.

Good to see another kid off the production line too 17 years old getting a debut they must think he's a special talent was reading he played in a U19 Champions League game at 14 years old at the time the youngster player ever to appear in a CL game at that age group.
 
I think Ole has said the pair of young uns will play a part on Thursday. If Diallo, plus Greenwoods improvment, means we can save a bunch on Sancho that would be great news.
I did also read today, we could have a chance with Haaland if we agree to his silly wage demand, which I think is something like 300 grand a week. But I'd guess you'd pay that if it was Mbappe so why not?
 
Again, don't think I said it was wholly Maguires fault, so I am being misrepresented again. I said it was awful defending by him.

It's a terrible header by Maguire

Why are 3 united players marking one Newcastle player is another point.

Why didn't, I think Matic or Greenwood, take control.

At least one of those two should be on the scorer, ASM.

It's a litany of errors, doesn't remove the fact Maguire should have done much better.
You're clueless about the game, as are the journalists who reported on it.
 
You're clueless about the game, as are the journalists who reported on it.

Please refrain from personal insults of that ilk. Whilst you may disagree there is no need to call someone clueless. Just to try and get across why you disagree. There are more eloquent ways to put a point across.

It's a shame how much the defensive situation splits the fan base. I do genuinely believe in this instance he's copping a lot of flack because he's Maguire. I'd say as a defender you're probably going back to Brown and O'Shea in their early days before they were jumped on like Maguire and Lindelof are. Even the chuckle brothers got a little more slack.

People are going to see things differently at times. My initial reaction was where the hell are the rest of our defence.
 
My initial reaction was where the hell are the rest of our defence.
I agree with this too, as I mentioned. I just think it was a poor header. It's not just the press or me, the goals against prove we have serious problems in defence, that can't all be labelled at Lindelof, or Maguire for that matter.

It's a real probem area, City are cruising, check their clean sheets
 
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