Ole moving us to the next level

I expect the GK as you say to take care of itself so that brings it down to 4.
I dont think we will be getting any CB, Ole will continue with our present 2 starters backed up by Bailly and Tuanzebe, but we will also see the emergence of Mengi who there are big hopes for, so that takes it down to 3.
There is such a wealth of midfielders ready to breakthrough from the under 23's i really don't see us signing anyone. I'm backing McCann to step up and form a formidable partnership with McT in the next season or two. That brings us down to 2.
So a right winger and a striker it shall be. Guess who?

My list was more positions where we need an instant starting quality player to really make the progress I think the lads from the U23's will hopefully be stepping up to add the depth to the squad as players like Fred/Matic/VDB/James probably move on over the next few summers. Some positive noises about Laird at MK Dons playing as a right back very attacking player but struggled with injury could potentially provide some competition to AWB.

GK ~ Don't think it's nailed on solved but I've seen enough to say that can be a 2022 problem not a 2021 problem.

CB ~ He has to get a centre back and he probably knows it. Tuanzebe to me needs a season out on loan next year his career has stalled, you can't trust Bailly to stay fit and Lindelof/Maguire partnership doesn't work. To me you buy a starting quality CB pair him with Maguire or Lindelof, keep Bailly for squad depth and loan out Tuanzebe and Mengi next season.

CM ~ Well assuming Pogba is off and Matic is well past his best Utd need reinforcements. Not sure who McCann is but Mejbri is the one from the academy with the promise as a centre mid to me looks a little way off yet but certainly could move up to a squad player role next season not a starter. James Garner seems to be doing well at Forrest think he might be one that moves up to the first team squad next season and maybe gets a few chances. But realisticall over the next 18 months we probably need to replace Matic/Pogba/VDB/Fred from the current 5 so I think he has to start working on that this summer.

RW ~ We invested in youth with Pellistri and Amad but both still very young think we might see them both out on loan somewhere next season. Greenwood has struggled this season after his breakthrough year last year teams maybe worked him out a little bit so needs to add a bit more to his game but it's always 2 steps forward 1 step back with young kids. I think the RW position suits his skills and may be his long term home as a forward rather than up the middle. Utd have to add more quality to this position we need a reliable threat on that side of the pitch to allow us to attack down both sides of the pitch Sancho was the obvious target last season. With prices dropped maybe he's gettable this summer.

CF ~ Sounds like Cavani won't be hanging around and we know Martial can't be relied on so it's big decision time here. All clubs have their eye on one man right now does that mean Utd need to look elsewhere or can they find a way to get the "wonderkid." This side is crying out for a top quality centre forward but they're in high demand and short supply so won't be easy to find them.
 
If we don't sign a CB CM and ST we aren't competing for the title. And that's even if Pogba stays. We are crying out for a player of Kante quality in DM. It would allow us to play the 4-2-3-1 with Pogba in a 2.

I think they're the 3 positions you have to go get before we are title contenders.

If any of the youth team were seriously ready to step up right now they'd be getting game time here and there.

The RW you have to assume that Diallo / Pelestri / Greenwood are going to take that role on for now.

GK whilst I would like to go and get Donnarumma on a free you do probably have to give Henderson a year to look at him properly.
 
thats how I feel IDFD

Those 3 positions we need to sign real ready to go quality.

I disagree with JSP on Greenwood, I think he does really well out right, he's not scoring as much but he is really providing more, often not taken, and is a real outlet down there. Always positive
 
I said he's had a bit of a struggle this season especially first half of the season but he's hit some good form recently form that really deserves some goals at the end of it as you said he's becoming more of a creator for others as well as getting his shots away but he will be dissapointed with his goal total this season.
 
Mason will be very disappointed with the season he's had. He's gone from the brightest of the very young British talents to 3rd at best with his performances. 1 goal 1 assist in the league after last season's campaign is a massive backwards step. He's not even in the talk of the euro squad now. This stage of last season he was nailed on for it and he needs to make a big step forwards again next season.
 
If he has a good end to the season he's got a shot but his behaviour when he was first called up probably lost him a bit of faith from the manager.

We saw something similar with Rashford after the big break through there was a season or two of hit and miss before he then stepped it up a level again I expect the same with Greenwood. Teams know him a bit they can plan for it a bit now so it's up to him to add more to his game so he can still create the chances.
 
I don't think we're getting to the next level, if that means league titles. The season we're in right now was our shot - but we didn't get the players in we needed. Sancho or Haaland would have us giving City a run for their money. Next season, we have to address the holes we already have in the squad plus address those who have underperformed or are getting past their best.

Current holes: CB, DM, all round midfielder, CF. Next season we should think about upgrades on Matic, Cavani, Pogba, Martial, Fred, VDB, James. The first two still have some spark in them but they are too old to play every week. Pogba and Martial have always had questions over their performance levels and commitment, and we need players that give 100% every match. Fred, VDB, and James I just don't think they're good enough. Ole clearly doesn't trust VDB but trusts Fred, so it's a mystery. James might add to his game, but think of some of the players we've had on the right, and it becomes a glaring gap in skill.

For Ole to take us to the next level, we "only" need 10 players. Ha. I think we could do with our current defenders if we had more attacking potency. We could let the odd goal in and it wouldn't hurt us.

I like Ole. He's a good manager with a mediocre squad. If he gets a great squad, that will cover up his deficiencies, but he's not getting a great squad.
 
I don't think we have a complete squad, but neither do I think Ole is getting the best out of what he has. I think other managers out there would get our squad playing better, more consistent football.

Can Ole improve? Possibly. Has he earned the right to keep trying? I'd say he has. Will he succeed? I very much doubt it, sadly.

Player wise, we definitely need an out and out striker more than anything else. I don't think there's a hope in hell Haaland will be interested, given his family history. Don't know who else is out there who'd be a realistic target.

We need someone who's better than Fred.
 
I don't see how anyone can say someone could get us better, we're second. What more do you want, did you see our bench compared to city's?

other managers would be better? Another manager could improve Shaw as much as Ole has?

He's doing an incredible job. I get the feeling people judge him because he's not come from a massive club, he's only managed Molde. But he has improved them so much.

I think he's doing a fantastic job with what he's got. Best since Fergie left by miles.
 
I don't see how anyone can say someone could get us better, we're second. What more do you want, did you see our bench compared to city's?

other managers would be better? Another manager could improve Shaw as much as Ole has?

He's doing an incredible job. I get the feeling people judge him because he's not come from a massive club, he's only managed Molde. But he has improved them so much.

I think he's doing a fantastic job with what he's got. Best since Fergie left by miles.
It's not just about league position; you cannot give Ole credit for the fact Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea aren't at the races. If those sides were all at their best and we were still above them, then you can credit Ole for that. At this moment, in this season, we've been lucky.

Sometimes your side plays well, but still doesn't win. You've done all you could, but someone else has still done better. All our past battles with Arsenal, Chelsea and then City were more like that. Being bested by Barca, Bayern and Real were like that. This season is not like that.

Too many times this season we have been turgid, unimaginative, uncreative. Too many times we have been plain lucky. Is it the squad? To some extent. Is it the coaching? To some extent. For me, it's more a coaching issue than a squad issue. I'm sure I'm in the minority with that view.
 
We are still in the FA cup and the Europa league too........ for now
 
I can't see how it's not more a squad issue than a coaching issue. People say if Ole was to leave would he get another top job elsewhere?

How many of our players start for City? Or even get in their squad? In the starting 11 you've probably got Shaw and either Pogba or Bruno.
 
We don't know how our squad would look if it were coached by a Guardiola or a Klopp. I'd put money on Shaw, AWB, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and possibly a few more pushing to get in the City or Liverpool squad.

Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldun. A few years ago that would not look like a top midfield on paper. Given the right coach though....Fabian Delph; two league titles and four domestic cup winners medals. Who knew?
 
Delph, that's like saying David May got a CL medal.

Of course we don't know, we don't know what their teams would look like with Sir Alex.

What's the point here, do you think this squad is over achieving by beig 2nd or underachieving is the question as to whether Ole is doing a good job.
 
Shaw - I don't think you can question his improvement under Ole. 18 months ago you'd have laughed at the idea of getting in their squads. It's because of Ole we think he can.
Pogba - As above. Again as improved under Ole and is getting back to the player we expected to get. When Ole took charge he couldn't get in our starting 11.
Rashford - Yeah he's a good player. Has improved under Ole but I don't think he's pushing Sterling or Mane out of their respective positions.
AWB - Don't think he's good enough going forward for Pep or Klopp. He's the best in the league defensively though. Certainly doesn't get in the City side imo though. Cancelo is the best full back in the league down either side for my money.

Bruno walks in to any team in the world at the moment with possibly the exception of City because of De Bruyne. That's just them having imo the only better attacking midfielder than him around.

I wouldn't say Henderson Milner and Wijnaldum is a top midfield. I'd assume Klopp would agree and that's why they signed Fabinho, Keita and Thiago.

As you said Ole has improved us since coming in. If we are making steps forward why cut his legs from under him. You say we can't praise Ole because Tottenham, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea are having bad seasons. It's a difficult season to get right and Ole is managing it better than all but Pep with a poorer squad than most of em.

Would we have achieved more under Pep. 99% certain we would. But he's the best manager around and he's at City already. You'd have said LVG and Mourinho were more likely to be successful than Ole. But we tried the star managers and it didn't work.

Ole needs a trophy though and needs to start backing some of this moving forwards up with silverware.
 
As I have said in this thread and elsewhere, Ole has earnt the right to continue, so I'm not saying we should cut his legs from under him.

I disagree with the notion that we have a generally weak squad and the related idea that Ole just needs better players.

I feel the squad can be improved, but more so the coaching. Time for the coaching team to up their game and get the most from the squad week in week out.
 
I wouldn't say Henderson Milner and Wijnaldum is a top midfield. I'd assume Klopp would agree and that's why they signed Fabinho, Keita and Thiago.
They were good enough under Klopp to help Liverpool win the ECL and PL.

Milner and Wijnaldun are at the end of their careers, so it's no surprise replacements have been found. Henderson's still very much in the mix.

My point is more that a great manager can turn any player into a winner, within reason. So all this talk about players getting into other squads is a bit of a red herring. If it was 2017 and you got offered that Liverpool midfield, you wouldn't have snapped their arm off.
 
I don't see how anyone can say someone could get us better, we're second. What more do you want, did you see our bench compared to city's?

other managers would be better? Another manager could improve Shaw as much as Ole has?

He's doing an incredible job. I get the feeling people judge him because he's not come from a massive club, he's only managed Molde. But he has improved them so much.

I think he's doing a fantastic job with what he's got. Best since Fergie left by miles.
Some of the most decorated managers in the game had a go before him. Ole is still in the process of sorting their mess out.
 
Would we have achieved more under Pep. 99% certain we would. But he's the best manager around and he's at City already.
You may not have said that at the end of his first season at City
 
I guess time will tell if it is a mistake or not but I do question the reasons behind it. Just like offering him the job in the first place it feels like it is being rushed before it is needed. With all respect to Ole I do not think there will be a long list of clubs looking to employ him so there is no real reason to tie him down to a contract in the same way you would if it was Pep. Personally I am fifty fifty with him. He has certainly made the place better to be around and the players more valued. We talk about identity all the time with our football club. We have two identities, the positive one when we are playing teams like City and Leeds that come out and play so we can hit them on the break. Unfortunately we also have a negative one against inferior teams that sit deep and plug gaps, that we have come nowhere near close finding an answer to. I would prefer to give him another season, backed in the transfer market, to see if he can resolve this problem before we offer another contract.
 
Currently it’s being reported as talks opening but expectations are it’ll be concluded quickly and announced before the end of the season. I think it is time for talks he’s just entering the last year of his deal so both sides will likely want assurances about what the future holds.

For me he needs to deliver top 4 again as the minimum to get his new deal ideally he can add one of the cups alongside that but I’m not confident about that right now.

If they back him with a new deal then they really need to back him in the transfer market this summer to plus those gaps in the squad and try and close that gap to City. That’s going to take some serious funds. This was where it all went south under Mourinho we gave him the new deal then the following summer didn’t back him with funds to buy the players he wanted that can’t happen again this summer.

It didn’t surprise me that shortly after a new structure was announced that the talk of a new contract would come as that structure needs to be seen to be backing ole.
 
I can understand the reservations about a new contract too early, but on the other hand it can be difficult to take a long term view for the good of the club if you have doubt about your employers intentions in regards to your own prospects.
Its clear that to date Ole's plan has been a longer term one and not short term. That needs to continue so as we see the fruits of it. I'm backing a title win inside the next two years to bring us back into the games elite.
 
I felt we rushed into a permanent deal with Ole first time around and Woodward allowed Mourinho to bully him into a new deal because that’s what José does.

I think my concern is we give him this deal now and this dodgy form continues we end up 5th and no CL. If that happens should he really be carrying on as manager or like the others that missed top 4 does he have to go?

Even if in that scenario he stays no top 4 means transfer budget is slashed.

I guess the point of the new structure is to allow the manager to focus more shorter term on results as the longer term planning and vision is being looked after by others. While Ole still has a part to play in that vision he really has to start being judged by his results and the quality of the teams performances.
 
The problem is when we go on these bad runs they tend to be really bad. This particular bad run has not been as bad as others I dont think which might be thought of as moving us forward. This is a big week. If we have a good week we are in a good place moving forward. A bad week and we could be out of all the cup competitions and dragged into a top 4 finish battle.
 
Thing is, I don't really see us as being in a bad run. I see us as being at the start of a good run since beating City who had won their last 21. Drawing with Milan wasnt necessarily a bad result, thay are a good team as they showed. It is indeed a big week and i'm expecting us to come through it well. We will know better when the head hits the pillow next Sunday evening.
I certainly dont share @jsp concerns about top 4. I am confident we will finish second.
 
Yep there’s 3 big games in the next 7 days before the international break.

Just need to keep the fight going on 3 fronts and hope that we return from internationals with a few more healthy bodies for the run in. My gut feeling is we will be out of Europa but who knows this team has a habit of delivering when you least expect it as we saw vs City.

Win today I think top 4 will be fine but if we don’t I still think there’s work to do to be sure.

Hopefully a corner was turned vs City but we were very poor mid week.
 
Thing is, I don't really see us as being in a bad run. I see us as being at the start of a good run since beating City who had won their last 21. Drawing with Milan wasnt necessarily a bad result, thay are a good team as they showed. It is indeed a big week and i'm expecting us to come through it well. We will know better when the head hits the pillow next Sunday evening.
I certainly dont share @jsp concerns about top 4. I am confident we will finish second.
I really like your positivity but I think it is fair to say to be in a good run it has to be over a minimum of 2 games.
 

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