Mourinho ponders fielding United under-23 side against Crystal Palace

boothstownred

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Not sure I understand why. If we get to the Europa Final isn't that before the Palace game?
 

IDFD

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Assuming it's a dig at the European powers that be for the scheduling of the final. It could easily be the Wednesday after the FA Cup final between that and the champions league final.

However nah we play Palace the 21st and if we made the Europa league final that's the 24th. If we can't finish top 4 come that game then I'd agree with him and rest all 11 players he plans on starting the Europa league final with.
 

jsp

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If we can't get top 4 on last day and we have a European final play he tea lady vs Palace. I don't care about integrity of the league, not like we've spanked the entire league at home this season anyway.

However, classic diversion from Mourinho, who drew at home to a team 3rd bottom worst defence in the league scored 1 goal (a generous penalty) and created little else. I know injuries are playing a part but this is classic get everyone talking about something other than the result from Jose.

The date for the final has been fixed all season. Utd are being punished due to our own success. Next season I bet Mourinho plays very weak sides in league cup if we make CL. If we are in Europa he'll rotate a lot more than he did this season.
 

the nuts named eric

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He never played weak sides in EFL for Chelsea. Why would he start now. He'll play a close to first eleven in most games as is his style.
 

IDFD

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He likes the EFL see it's as a good platform to build from but we definitely saw rotation in the earlier rounds.

Herrera played himself in to the side with his performances in the EFL
 

jsp

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I just think he will focus on the league more next season. If he's got this squad again he knows we can't last the distance, the same thing happened under Moyes & LVG Utd teams, in 4 seasons now have finished the season poorly.

Maybe it won't be the League Cup but I can't see him pushing as hard on all fronts next season. I think having got to the league cup semi finals, he'd have preferred going out of the FA Cup early but we had some easy draws before Chelsea.

While Herrera played his way in others like Schniederlin & Depay played themselves out. Could he have used Carrick earlier or even Schweni? Could he have got someone short term in January?

This squad will shrink in size over the summer, it's been too big for Mourinho. He will want it smaller next season, he tends to work with a core of 15/16 high quality players with little rotation.
 

gav81

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That's fine - it's pretty much what Klopp did at the end of last season. But why is Mourinho making a thing of it? What does he expect the FA to do? It's not like they can extend the season and potentially hand an advantage to United and their opponent.
 

the nuts named eric

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Great a smaller selection of overpaid Mourinho Acolytes to be depressed with. Especially when TFM and Axel get pushed back further by this. If anyone wants example of that happening look at Mourinho Chelsea. Lost Lukaku (admittedly hard to displace Drogba) DeBruyne and others although of the others not many have proved as strong as the above. That can come from not getting enough games in their formative games, having played under Jose!
 

jsp

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Great a smaller selection of overpaid Mourinho Acolytes to be depressed with. Especially when TFM and Axel get pushed back further by this. If anyone wants example of that happening look at Mourinho Chelsea. Lost Lukaku (admittedly hard to displace Drogba) DeBruyne and others although of the others not many have proved as strong as the above. That can come from not getting enough games in their formative games, having played under Jose!
It's a tough one. Mourinho has been under pressure to win all the time, so he's never really had to think about youngsters.

De Bruyne & Lukaku were obviously let go too soon but both were desperate to play and refusing more loan moves but they weren't ready for the first team, Mourinho had better options at the time and I'm not sure he had full control at Chelsea. You can also argue he took players like Terry, Lampard, Joe Cole, Drogba, Cech, Robben, Duff, Ibra on to new levels.

The squad right now is a mess it needs proven winners
 

gav81

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Great a smaller selection of overpaid Mourinho Acolytes to be depressed with. Especially when TFM and Axel get pushed back further by this.
What do you mean? Why would it push them back further?

If Mourinho plays Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe and other under 23s against Palace I'm sure he will be declared the father of youth football by some.
 

jsp

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I think both those players will go on loan next season.

More interesting will be what happens to Andreas Periera & Januzaj. I think Januzaj will get sold and Periera may go on loan again

Mourinho will give a player a chance, maybe even a 2nd chance, but 3rd/4th/5th chances are few and far between.
 

the nuts named eric

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What do you mean? Why would it push them back further?

If Mourinho plays Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe and other under 23s against Palace I'm sure he will be declared the father of youth football by some.
I mean in terms of jsp's smaller squad talk for next season. Mourinho has often gone with a 22/23 ma squad, but he doesn't ever seem to deviate from that. So next season that'd leave us with less opportunity for youngsters as the squad will be filled with Mourinho bruises. Not something I am looking forward to!
 

gav81

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I mean in terms of jsp's smaller squad talk for next season. Mourinho has often gone with a 22/23 ma squad, but he doesn't ever seem to deviate from that. So next season that'd leave us with less opportunity for youngsters as the squad will be filled with Mourinho bruises. Not something I am looking forward to!
Ah gotcha. Yes I don't understand Mourinho's preference for a small squad - doesn't seem sensible.
 

SuperRash

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I think we should skip most of the U23 players and mix the U18's with the first teamers, that's where the real talent lies in the youth teams. Bohui, Gomes, Buffonge, Chong and Gribbin to name a few. Obviously they all are around the 16-18 range so are a few years away from the first team but they are all potential picks for the odd bench appearance. Klopp has given Woodburn a dig at 16 but I guess Mourinho is a little more conservative with his youth players.
 

boothstownred

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I think Gribbin is tbe only one developed enough to strp up. Chong and Gomes are two of the best prospects but are both injured. The other big prospect is Lee O'Connor but I think he is only 16 and quite small for a centre half at academy level. Top player though.
 

jsp

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It's a huge huge gap from the U23 level to the first team level at Utd. It's massive. Januzaj looked like Kaka in his prime playing U23 football last season and he wasn't even trying that hard.

A big thing for a lot of these kids will be making sure that they are physically ready to handle professional football as the pro's hit a lot harder and unless at 16 you've got the body of a 20 year old, you can do yourself some serious damage.
 

the nuts named eric

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Januzaj!

A big thing for a lot of these kids will be making sure that physically they are ready to handle it as the pro's hit a lot harder and unless at 16 you've got the body of a 20 year old you can do yourself some serious damage.
Januzaj and Perreira both looked different gravy last year. One of the things that got both in trouble with LVG was an apparent challenge between each to see who could score straight from a corner. Putting their individual reward above team.

Januzaj did look good in his breakthrough year, but personality clashes with more pragmatic coaches has probably done him, that and an apparent attitude issue at Dortmund. Perreira has looked good for Granada though so here's hoping that he comes back to the squad to play (oh why do I do this to myself?).

On to the younger lads, it cannot hurt to have them mixing with the first team, maybe not full training games, but gym work, tactics, skills drills anything that doesn't pit 16 year olds against fully formed defensive machines should be pretty good for them. Thing is, that is not Mourinho's modus operandi, so yet another hope he looks to build for a future he knows he's not part of? Not happening.

EDIT: I played full adult football from 16 by the way, and it didn't actually do me harm. Yes they weren't professional, but they all wanted to kill the rapid little b****** who kept taking them to the cleaners. So why not toughen them up in that aspect?
 

jsp

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I'm guessing the ones who are closer to being first team ready are training regularly with the first team mixing in with drills and matches, but most of the more talented ones went out on loan. There's obviously Januzaj, Periera but also Borthwick-Jackson, Wilson & Varela all went out on loan and apart from Periera who's done well in a side that got relegated, none of them really did much, although Wilson & Varela suffered injuries. The young keepers who all went out on loan have all done well. Johnstone, Pareira & Henderson have had successful loan moves. Some suggest that Pareira might be kept around as number 2 next season as there are rumours that Romero wants to move to play first team football with the world cup coming up in 2018.

I did the same we mixed into mens level, both Saturday & Sunday league standard from 16, but you really can't compare the two as the speed and force that a pro player now hits you at, will break you whereas some clogger at the levels we play at doesn't hit you anywhere near as hard and most of the time you can see him coming a mile off.

Listening to Johnny Evans on a podcast the other day he tells a story of RvN getting sent to train with the youth team. He said RvN was in a foul mood and actually went in too hard in a few tackles and broke a kids ankle. Evans said in first team training they'd kick lumps from each other but by then your body could handle it. In youth team level when you get hit by a pro you are in trouble.

There seems to be a pattern currently with the kids who break through very young from academies having lots of injury problems, unless you're a man at 16 -17 like Rooney. It's hard to compete compared to a player like Lingard who Utd held back until he was 21-22 as they knew he needed to physically develop before he could play top level.

Januzaj was unlucky. He'd done well under Moyes in his breakthrough season and was an obvious top talent but mentally maybe wasn't ready for a guy like LVG who's very methodical in everything he does. He doesn't allow off the cuff style football which is what Januzaj was at that point.

A lot of coaching right now isn't about toughening these kids up physically, most of them are used to the bumps and the bruises, it's toughening them up mentally so that they can think for themselves as they've grown up in a bubble where everything is made easy for them. A big part of youth coaching now is trying to make their lives harder so they can make decisions for themselves.
 

SuperRash

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I think Gribbin is tbe only one developed enough to strp up. Chong and Gomes are two of the best prospects but are both injured. The other big prospect is Lee O'Connor but I think he is only 16 and quite small for a centre half at academy level. Top player though.
Yeah I've heard good things about O'Connor ever since he arrived at the club, definitely one to watch. Another talent that has popped up in my mind is Burkart. On paper we have so many talents in the under 18's but it's whether a few of them can really progress, if all the aforementioned players rise to their potential then we have one hell of a team in the future.

Gribbin is definitely a huge talent, I do remember him being likened to Giggs and you can't argue the comparisons. He is quick and very good with either foot. I don't think it's long before he's knocking on the first team door.
 

IDFD

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Listening to Johnny Evans on a podcast the other day he tells a story of RvN getting sent to train with the youth team
PM me the Podcast sounds an interesting listen.
 

Sideshow Bob

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The issue with Januzaj, is Januzaj. Players like Januzaj stop trying to better themselves, probably because of the attention and the rewards they receive at such a young age. I like Gribbin, but I think he will fade away, just like Januzaj. I could be totally wrong, but he appears to have an attitude issue, just like Januzaj.
 

RichH2016

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I know other teams will disagree and I know some fans will disagree but I'd actually be OK with this. Hell I'd be OK with it even if we don't have the Europa League final to plan for.

Seeing the younger players in action is always good because you get a glimpse of what's to come. You get to see who might be breaking through in to the first team next year.

I miss the days when we fielded really young teams in the league cup. Squads have become so full and so overcrowded these days that experienced players who don't get much playing time normally are the ones who get the opportunities.
 

JSNFRMN

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Another problem with fielding young players in the League Cup is the poor scheduling of reserve games. The reserve team goes 2 weeks or more without a game sometimes but always have a game in the week of a cup game.
 

jsp

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I think if we go through then we rest players vs Spurs, first team vs Southampton midweek and then rest players vs Palace to give them a full weeks break before the final.

If we go out and there's no final and Palace are in a relegation fight on the last day we should play a strong side just to be fair to the league I'd play the youngsters/reserves against Southampton. Let's be honest though even our best side drew with Hull & Swansea so not like they can really moan. If there's no final I'd consider sending Rashford & Pogba on holiday early especially if England want Rashford for U21s.

I think with no final Mourinho will want a big win on the last day to send fans home happy and optimistic for next season. Plus it would be nice to be the team that finally relegate big Sam.
 

SuperRash

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I know other teams will disagree and I know some fans will disagree but I'd actually be OK with this. Hell I'd be OK with it even if we don't have the Europa League final to plan for.

Seeing the younger players in action is always good because you get a glimpse of what's to come. You get to see who might be breaking through in to the first team next year.

I miss the days when we fielded really young teams in the league cup. Squads have become so full and so overcrowded these days that experienced players who don't get much playing time normally are the ones who get the opportunities.
I'd be more than happy playing a youthful side vs Palace, there is always something exciting about seeing a young player coming in to the side. It's even more exciting when they do something special, ala Rashford, Macheda and Januzaj to name a few.

It's a shame we don't see more young players, to be honest when we were getting an abundance of injuries under LVG and he was forced into playing the youngsters was probably the most exciting tie of his reign.

I wouldn't go as far as the entire line up being youngsters but definitely all the key men rested in preparation for the EL final (if we get there).
 

JSNFRMN

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If Palace are safe and Spurs are out of the title race then i'd have no problem with us giving others a chance regardless of what happens tomorrow night. The last relegation place is still up in the air but everything else looks like it may be settled after this weekend, 4th place will probably go another week too with Arsenal winning tonight.

For me, if it wasn't for the Europa League, i'd be looking to next season already.
 

RichH2016

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I'd be more than happy playing a youthful side vs Palace, there is always something exciting about seeing a young player coming in to the side. It's even more exciting when they do something special, ala Rashford, Macheda and Januzaj to name a few.

It's a shame we don't see more young players, to be honest when we were getting an abundance of injuries under LVG and he was forced into playing the youngsters was probably the most exciting tie of his reign.

I wouldn't go as far as the entire line up being youngsters but definitely all the key men rested in preparation for the EL final (if we get there).
I'm with you here buddy. Seeing a young player with that spark and ability is exciting. Seeing them take that step up and sometimes look like they belong is great and something unfortunately don't see enough of these days.

There's some really good young kids in our youth teams and I do fear that with Jose they aren't going to get a fair crack at the first team.
 

IDFD

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I'd play a proper team against Southampton they need a win under them before the Europa it's 3 games without a win and one in our last 6 but the would play none of the Europa League starting 11 against.

What we thinking Europa league starting 11?

Romero

Valencia Jones Blind Darmian

Herrera Pogba

Mhki Mata Martial

Rashford

?
 

jsp

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Might need a new topic for a final starting XI but I'd be starting De Gea in the final, it's the biggest game of the season so sentiment goes out the window and we pick the best team even if it is harsh on Romero.

At CB it's either Smalling & Blind or Smalling & Jones. As far as I can tell I don't believe Jones & Blind have ever played together as a centre back pairing.

The midfield is a difficult one do we start with Carrick and have that big game experience in there personally I'd like him in between Herrera & Pogba.

Up top it's Rashford obviously as the CF but who plays either side of him is anyones guess as none of them are in any sort of form at the moment. Rooney to his credit has had a few ok performances since he came back in to the side but I think he's someone we're better off using from the bench either to close out the game or if we need him to come on as a potential match winner.

I think start the team that he intends to play in the final vs Southampton then play a team that combines the subs for the final and the kids against Palace.
 

JSNFRMN

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Great to see the young lads taking this opportunity today. Harrop will get the headlines for the goal but I thought Mitchell was brilliant throughout and he's still learning his new position.

Bloody brilliant seeing Gomes coming on for last 5 too and getting so many touches of the ball. Pretty sure it won't be the last time we see him. Having played up a year or 2 since he was young has prepared him well to cope with physical side of game, will be interesting to see how he develops physically though too.
 

IDFD

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Angel Gomes excites me like no youngster has since Morrison. Let's hope he can stay on the straight and narrow!
 

gav81

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We played Pereira, Fosu-Mensah, Mitchell, McTominay, Tuanzebe, Harrop and Gomes... and comfortably beat Palace 2-0. Think I cheered more than I have done all season when the Harrop goal went in!

So what was all that Mourinho was saying about the youngsters being not ready? I would congratulate him but he's only fielded the young players because he feels forced.

Surely we could have seen more of them this season even if only in cameo roles - the rest of the players might not be so tired then.
 

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