Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Sideshow Bob, Jun 22, 2017.
I'll be honest I fell for it at Basel. I'll admit it. I thought he was good there. When I watched him play at Chelsea I realised how wrong I was. He was terrible. He runs so fast that the ball just cant keep up with him. If forest gump played soccer as he'd say, this would be the closest thing to him.
On paper his record at Fiorentina and Roma looks great. But if you watch him, his so wasteful and so heavy footed. He scores because his quicker then anyone else so he gets more chances that way. There's nothing clinical about him. It's persistence. I think the defenders in this country will figure him out early. His got no plan B his one dimensional in every sense.
No one else was linked to him which says a story in itself I think. Klopp should be thinking about the shaky back 4 and goal keeper situation really. Instead of trying to build a men 4x100 relay side.
If you hadn't mentioned club names I would swear you were talking about Raheem Sterling.
Salah is much of a muchness, he'll do you a job and will pick up his share of goals and assists but did they really need him? Obviously good to have depth and now they are back in the CL they need that but could have spent their £35m better I would say.
He looked a very exciting talent at Basel but he made a mistake in going to Chelsea he wasn't ready for the step up and at the time they didn't need him and he never really seemed to get a fair crack bit like De Bruyne. He was clearly a guy they thought they could get for £10m do a few loans and sell him on for twice that which is a policy that has served them pretty well and they're quite good at it.
He's improved massively in his time in Italy he was brilliant for Fiorentina and Roma and I'd be pretty excited if he was coming to my club he's similar to Mane in that he's direct and a good finisher I always kind of thought of him as the egyptian Walcott he couldn't really dribble past his man but he was clever and used his speed in other ways to create openings by looking for one two's. Klopp might be able to help refine those rough edges in his game.
I'm not sure he improves their starting XI but he certainly improves the squad and it means if one of the front 3 get injured or isn't playing well they've got quality to come in whereas last season when Mane went to ACoN and then got injured it really hurt them as the guys coming in weren't as effective.
£35m is a lot of money but when you're talking about Utd having to pay £70m to sign Morata is it really that much?
Despite his flaws I reckon he'd get in the Utd team he's a better wide player than Mata & Lingard for example.
It wouldn't be hard for anyone to be a better wide player then Mata or Lingard. Mata is a natural 10 who never stays wide anyway and Lingard is terrible anywhere on a pitch let alone out on a wing.
I don't think you can compare dropping 70 on Morata to 35 on Salah because of the size difference between us and Liverpool. Firstly clubs don't play fair with us because we are such a big fish. We have to pay the premium for anyone because of the money we generate by simply being Manchester United. Roma said last week they wanted closer to 50 Million for Salah, Liverpool bulked and the deal got negotiated down. That wouldn't and doesn't happen with us because clubs know we've got the money. Look at this Perisic deal which sadly looks like its going to happen. We've reported bid 30 million, inter want another 15-20 so who's going to win? No doubt we will pay more and walk away with him at the extra cost. It comes with the territory of being one of the biggest clubs in the wold.
Its also an expensive fee when you consider how much have Liverpool got left in that transfer kitty now. 35 million i would have thought would be a big chunk of that summer spending spree. I'd be shocked if they went out and brought another 4 or 5 players for that type of money after this deal. Whereas we drop a similar amount of Lindelof and no one would be shocked if we brought half a dozen more players for even larger fees.
I personally can see nothing but speed in his game. His so faint and lightweight as well i think we will get manhandled in this league. He looks great on Wikipedia but then so did Afonso Alves at one point in his career.
That simply isn't how business works Madrid like Roma have a sale price that they will do a deal at in any negotiation your first offer is always lower than the asking price as the asking price is always higher than the sale price anyone who's every tried buying a house or a car knows how the system works. I bet liverpool didn't start at £35m for Salah they'll have come up a bit and Roma will have come down from their initial price of £50m. Liverpool have probably paid a bit of a premium to do the deal now if they'd waited until the window was about to close assuming no one else came in Roma might have accepted £30m as no one wants a player who is unhappy.
Liverpool are hardly on the breadline they are having to pay the same silly prices we are they signed Mane for £34m last summer and Firmino for £30m the summer before that when we signed Mkhitaryan and Depay for similar sums and they were at the time much more high profile and valuable players they get mugged off the same way we do.
We don't know what the kitty is they've probably got Champions League football next season and I think they're going to go big this summer it was clear they were prepared to pay a big fee for Van Dijk until they annoyed Southampton by trying to tap him up. I think they've accepted they can't compete on the cheap and if they want to get to the next level they're going to have to start spending and acting like the big club they are. Revenues are clearly up thanks to CL qualification, they've got more ticket money coming in following the redevelopment and new sponsorship deals kicking in.
Bringing in a player from outside of the Premier League is always a gamble as you don't know how they'll adjust to the different style and challenges but that's the same if Roma were buying a guy from Liverpool rather than Genoa you don't know how someone will adapt to a new league. I reckon he'll score 10-15 in all comps next season which is pretty much what you want from a £35m wide forward these days. I think his speed suits the way Klopp likes to play which involves the ball moving a break neck speed and if he can understand the Klopp pressing system he should be able to implement that well.
Ok firstly how I put It is exactly how business works.
Your saying that any selling club/player dealing with man united won't ask for a higher fee or a player won't ask for more wages then they would if they were dealing with any other club? That's ridiculous of course they do. They know we've got the money so they always ask for more.
It's not like buying a house or a car at all. Cars and houses have prices or a values that both parties know before selling even begins. Players don't walk round with price tags on them. If Richard richard branson knocked on my door and wanted to buy my car, I'd offer it to him slightly higher then I would say to my neighbour. Anybody would, because you know his got money so you try it. Don't be naive to think that all clubs would sell the same player for the same price to anyone. Clubs all over European rub their hands together when they hear united wants one of their players. Open your window now your probably hear Benfica and talisca singing with joy we are back in for one their players.
Im not saying Liverpool are on the breadline. I'm saying they aren't in our league for spending. 35 million to them is almost a club record. We spent 90 odd on Pogba alone. We are linked to 100 million pound players. They aren't. Regardless of champions league incomes and all of that jazz. Liverpool ain't going to spend a fortune compared to us. Compared to themselves maybe. But not us. Obviously that's just my opinion I havent heard back from Klopp to confirm that.
I agree Salah will probably score 10-15 goals in all competitions. Because he might hit a hat trick at Rochdale in a cup but not in the prem. I don't think he can pass a ball at break neck speeds and he certainly can't dribble the thing. I'm pleased they've got him and we didn't. This time next season Amr Zaki will still be the best Egyptian player these shores have seen.
Using your own example of a car if you've advertised it for £10k that is the most you will get for it and while Morata doesn't come with a fixed price Utd will know what ball park Madrid are looking for as they'll will have been discussions through agents. They obviously know the figure they hear from Madrid is higher than the one they would actually accept but a good negotiator will find a common ground where both parties are happy.
One thing you learn in business is not to rip people off on one deal if you wish to do business with them again. To use your example why sell Richard Branson one car where he knows he's being ripped off when you could sell him a new car every year if he feels he's getting a good deal. If Madrid try and rip us off guess what happens next time they come for one of ours?
Of course Utd can go to extremes Liverpool can't when it comes to transfers as you've highlighted with Pogba but when we go for similar players we pay similar prices. Utd get charged the same premium by European clubs that any other English sides do the only difference is when Utd & Liverpool want the same player Utd are prepared to pay more not in a transfer fee but certainly in wages.
Football business has no memories. Fergie once told us he wouldn't sell Real Madrid a virus. Yet its never hurt relations when dealing for Ronaldo or Di Maria. David De Gea was a fax machine away from joining as well. Everything in football is a deal by deal basis. There's no real friends, its a business at the end of the day and everyone's out for the maximum they can get.
My overall point in all this is that clubs all over the world in my opinion, would prefer to sell their players, to a club in England. Simply because of the amount of money in our league. The premier league is the biggest cash cow around and our clubs have got and will pay more money then anyone else. So it gives the selling club the advantage when negotiating a fee. At the top of the pile is Man United. In my eyes players a players value will rocket if Man United are involved. I take your point about whats the point of ripping someone off because they will only rip you off back. But unfortunately clubs dont have morals. The biggest clubs in the world know that they will have to end up dealing with each other again anyway at some point. So it doesn't matter.
Pre Season: Liverpool 2-1 Leicester City - 22nd July 2017
Pre Season: Hertha Berlin 0-3 Liverpool - 29th July 2017
Premier League: Watford 3-3 Liverpool - 12th August 2017
Premier League: Liverpool 4-0 Arsenal - 27th August 2017
Premier League: Leicester City v Liverpool - 23rd September 2017
They've been bang on the money 2 seasons in a row with their signings of wide forwards Salah can be frustrating as he misses a lot but he gets so many chances in a game he will eventually score. Just before that goal he missed a much easier chance.
Premier League: Tottenham Hotspur 4-1 Liverpool - 22nd October 2017
Premier League: West Ham United 1-4 Liverpool - 4th November 2017
Premier League: Liverpool 3-0 Southampton - 18th November 2017
14 goals in 18 games.
Signing of the season?
You have to say that in him and Mane have nailed it 2 summers in a row with these signings.
Premier League: Bournemouth 0-4 Liverpool - 17th December 2017
20th goal of the season.
Premier League: Liverpool 2-2 Tottenham Hotspur - 4th February 2018
21st league goal of the season.
the guy is on fire, I hope someone comes in for him in the summer, madrid or munich or maybe even psg
The one thing I'll say about him is lets see if he can do it again next season, Mane was like this last season and he's found it a bit harder this season.
I don't think he'll be gone this summer but if he does it again next season then the vultures will start to circle.
Think the way Liverpool play suits him perfectly their front 3 don't really have to track back into defensive positions they stay high but they do their defending by pressing teams high up the pitch so they still work hard but it means they never find themselves 70-80 yards from goal covering in front of full backs.
Like a certain manager requests from certain wingers you mean?
I think Jose gets a lot of stick about his defending, but it is in much as the game as attacking, Liverpool may look good going forward but look how many the concede. Will they ever win the big trophies, I don't think so defending like that. Jose goal difference and goals for is pretty good. He should be admired for the lack of goals we concede really, and we score enough too.
Well our manager obviously expects his wide players to cover in certain games but in recent big games Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs he's let them stay much higher up the pitch and he doesn't really ask his attacking players to go all out to recover the ball he tends to want his players to get back into shape rather than focus on recovering the ball. Other teams have that 3 second press thing that Klopp, Guardiola & Poch use and they either recover the ball or make a foul to stop the counter attack.Mourinho doesn't really do that he tends to retreat into position to defend a counter attack.
Guardiola wants his wingers to stay high and wide leaving space for his attacking mids to get forward in central positions they only go inside once the full back arrives to provide the overlap, Salah and Mane don't really hug the touch line for Klopp they almost play in the width of the box leaving all the space out wide for full backs to attack.
I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to do it but certain wingers fit one style and not the other you can see why Salah never really worked for Mourinho and why he's thrived at other teams who haven't asked him to do as much defensive work but he also came to Chelsea at a time when he wasn't really needed same with De Bruyne there were better players ahead of them and Chelsea clearly signed both players with a view to make profit on them.
Roma must be kicking themseleves for selling him for £35m if they'd waited another month until the Neymar money hit they could've got double that, Liverpool did a great bit of business there getting in early for a player no one else seemed to be in for. The lad is full of confidence now and he's nowhere near as wasteful as he was at Roma.