Midfield

boothstownred

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Passing out of midfield is way different than passing out of defence. As a defender you are facing forward and have more time. In midfield you are often receiving the ball facing your own goal or on the half turn.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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no, I'm not looking for anything really.

Everytime I say (on here) why are we a playing a defensive duo, the answer seems to be to accomodate Bruno. Which is great, when he is on form banging them in. But when he isn't we need to change it up.

We don't have two players good enough to play the DM role, so something has to change.

So if we are only playing two DM to suit Bruno, should that be something we need to look at.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just floating it out there.

We do have a problem though.
Bruno seems to be a streaky player and has been known to go missing for stretches. Perhaps that's down to fatigue and overuse, perhaps he's wasting too much energy trying to referee the match while also playing in it, I don't know. I think it's a fair point to rest him more and use a different formation.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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Passing out of midfield is way different than passing out of defence. As a defender you are facing forward and have more time. In midfield you are often receiving the ball facing your own goal or on the half turn.
True, but Fred can't do those things either. It's not like Lindelof could've been more useless v Wolves than Fred was.
 

IDFD

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Lindelof isn't going to CM. He doesn't have the pace or fitness levels to play the Fred role. Absurd talk.

More likely to Bailly in there and his passing is as bad as Fred's. Has moving a CB forwards ever really worked? I can think of a few that have gone the other way.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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If the Fred role is to get dribbled past at every opportunity and be an offensive liability then Lindelof has all the skills necessary. :p

Yeah, I don't think there's a history of this working, and I'm not really advocating for Lindelof to move up. I just don't see any other options and Fred just needs to stop being picked.

I also remember silly suggestions about Jones and Blind doing similar.
 

mitchmouse

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If the Fred role is to get dribbled past at every opportunity and be an offensive liability then Lindelof has all the skills necessary. :p

Yeah, I don't think there's a history of this working, and I'm not really advocating for Lindelof to move up. I just don't see any other options and Fred just needs to stop being picked.

I also remember silly suggestions about Jones and Blind doing similar.
Blind might have been capable of doing this in a great side (ours in '99). Jones? errr, has enough trouble being a CB
 

jsp

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I think Phil Jones when he was 19 was potentially a midfielder or centre back, the lad had so much talent and people have forgotten that but years of injuries meant he never fulfilled it. He was basically fearless and that attitude probably resulted it some of his injuries putting his body into places it didn't below.

Lindelof is tidy on the ball for a centre back but you get way more time in central midfield he'd be in big trouble as you have to be so much more aware in midfield the game is 360 degrees in defence it's more like 180 degrees.

I don't think switching to a back 3 sorts out our midfield either probably creates new headaches as to where everyone in the attack fits as none of our wide forwards could play as wing backs.
 

Mr C

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Here's an idea, give the actual midfielder we bought, DVDB, a go.
 

jsp

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Here's an idea, give the actual midfielder we bought, DVDB, a go.

He’s had some chances and looked crap let’s be honest about when he has played.

Having kept him you have to assume Ole plans to use him it’s just really hard to see how.
 

Mr C

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Evra and Vidic were terrible when they arrived.

I don't think he's had a fair chance, and he beefed himself up over summer.

If we sell him without giving him a chance it would be a disgrace. Especially if it's for a loss

And I still say he can't do worse than Fred
 

jsp

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Well he can be worse than Fred and I’d argue he has in plenty of games because the way we play exposes the weaknesses in his game and gives him no chance to show off his strengths.

Good footballer just not for Utd but I really hope I’m wrong and the work he’s done over the summer will help him.

Now he’s here he deserves opportunities but he has to take them when they come.
 

Cosmic Slop

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He’s had some chances and looked crap let’s be honest about when he has played.

Having kept him you have to assume Ole plans to use him it’s just really hard to see how.
He was voted MOTM in one of those "crap" performances (on Red Cafe) btw.
 

jsp

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He was voted MOTM in one of those "crap" performances (on Red Cafe) btw.

Was that West Brom at home by any chance?

That was his one half convincing performance in a pretty dull home win.

That's the only game that I can really remember him featuring in and thinking he might have a chance but it was an opponent that sat off him all game and put him under no pressure.
 

Cosmic Slop

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Was that West Brom at home by any chance?

That was his one half convincing performance in a pretty dull home win.

That's the only game that I can really remember him featuring in and thinking he might have a chance but it was an opponent that sat off him all game and put him under no pressure.
Oh come on, be nice. Give Donny a break.
 

mitchmouse

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Evra and Vidic were terrible when they arrived.

I don't think he's had a fair chance, and he beefed himself up over summer.

If we sell him without giving him a chance it would be a disgrace. Especially if it's for a loss

And I still say he can't do worse than Fred
I remember seeing Evra and thinking "what the bloody hell have we done"? I never became his biggest fan but he did get better. Vidic, of course became a bloody monster! Even way back, Gary Pallister looked very dodgy early on
 

nonewname

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Simples
Look to get Donny and Martial sold in Jan window and try all out for bissouma
Bissouma pogba and bruno with mc t and matic backup
Get rid of Fred in summer mata.lingard and matic off the books hopefully with Jones as well to free up funds for Harland and another quality midfielder
 

mitchmouse

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Simples
Look to get Donny and Martial sold in Jan window and try all out for bissouma
Bissouma pogba and bruno with mc t and matic backup
Get rid of Fred in summer mata.lingard and matic off the books hopefully with Jones as well to free up funds for Harland and another quality midfielder
Get rid of Jones? I think he's grown roots into the OT pitch - maybe he'll be our next manager!
 

jsp

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It's really hard to see a solution to this problem before January.

Even the McFred combo which at times last season was reliable is struggling big time this season.

Matic just won't last 90 minutes.
Pogba leaves us to open
VDB hasn't been trusted but don't really see it as his position.

People are now suggesting chucking centre backs into this part of the pitch which to me is madness and a recipe for disaster.

Some of the stuff I've seen in the last two games in very alarming from a tactical point of view and Ole hasn't stepped on to the sidelines to address it and that's how far ahead of the ball our midfield is going. When our defenders have the ball the midfield is almost up with the forward line they have no pass into midfield so if that pass isn't retained our midfield is normally ahead of the opponent leaving us vulnerable to counters. Full backs are also very high on the field leaving us very exposed.

He obviously doesn't have the time to work with these players over the next 2 weeks as they'll be away on internationals but when they're back they need to do some serious work on team shape and sort out this vulnerability to the counter attack and stop over committing.
 

jsp

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Before January? I really don't see United addressing the issue in January to be honest with you.

Me neither but they should be doing something to address it if they can even if it's getting someone on loan.
 

Ben Townsend

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Franck Kessie - Great shout, his contract is up June next year and doesnt look like he's interested signing another with Milan.
 

jsp

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Franck Kessie - Great shout, his contract is up June next year and doesnt look like he's interested signing another with Milan.

The only issue there is he'll be off to the African Cup of Nations and will be cup tied in Europe if go through but yeah Utd could potentially offer some money to Milan to get him in early.

Will depend on what Kessie is looking for salary wise though is he looking for a bosman to get the big wages as Utd can't afford another one of these stupid bosman deals that buggers the wage bill like it did with Sanchez.

I'd offer Pogba as a swap deal :) doubt he'd want to go there though.
 

Mr C

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Just watched MoTD, Norgaard looks ideal
Only see highlights with him involved, is anyone going to watch the Chelsea game tomorrow, assuming it's on TV somehwere.

I'd be interested know people opinions of Norgaard during the match
 

jsp

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Manchester Evening News reporting that Solskjaer was unhappy that the club didn't sign a midfielder in the summer.

Suggests the Varane and Sancho signings were given top priority but Ole was desperate for a centre mid but the club couldn't find one within the budget they had and they also were unable to sell any of the existing players to raise that money.

The piece has no direct quotes but feels like something that's been fed to the reporter by the club to try and take the pressure off Ole.

I do think it's more than just a midfield problem now the signing of Ronaldo has given him a problem in the attack that will be tough for him to accomodate.
 

Mr C

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Would the club do that? they shafted Jose in the same way, and sacked him before Christmas.
 

jsp

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Think the current board really need the Ole thing to work and given that they've just given him and his team new deals they really really don't want to sack him. They've gone on record saying they are 100% on the Ole long term plan so stuff like this to me is the club trying to protect him a bit with the fans who are rightly getting frustrated with the results and the fact we didn't address our midfield in the sumer.

Where it was different with Jose is he wasn't afraid of throwing the bosses under the bus with Ole I think they know he won't do that as he doesn't want to hurt the club whereas by the end Jose just wanted to be sacked. He went to war with Woodward over the lack of signings in the summer he was fuming the club didn't buy a defender and then he turned on his players I think to force the club into sacking him.
 

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