Manchester United v Crystal Palace Player ratings

Red Warrior

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De Gea - 5 saved a penalty I guess

TFM - 3 poor, got dragged out of position for first goal, offered little anywhere
Lindelof - 1 Says everything why we need a new CB
Maguire - 5 Needs a better defensive partner to bring best out of him. Wasn't his finest game in a Utd shirt.
Shaw - 3 Looks kind of big again, his back is wide like a rugby player, is he in the weights or the Mcds? At fault for first goal along with TFM and VL, useless going forward. He runs, stops, puts foot on ball, looks back, passes back. Repeat, repeat, repeat!

McT - 3 He's no CDM. Not sure what he is still.
Pogba - 3 Rusty as hell, should offer way more even rusty

James - 2 Way out of his depth, feel sorry for the guy.
Bruno - 3
Rusty as hell, should offer way more even rusty
Rashford - 2 Continues his terrible form from leend of last season

Martial - 3 Spent more of the game in the no.10 area looking completely lost


Greenwood - 5 did ok when he came on but didn't see much of the ball
DVB - 7 when your new player comes on as sub and out shines the rest of the side it is a sorry state of things. He moved well, always looking for space and the ball which, sadly isn't what any other player did. Took his debut goal well, shame it was overshadowed by such an awful display. If we had 10 other player on the pitch like him with his movement we'd be pretty decent.
Ighalo - 5 No time to change the game at all

Overall team - 3 Terrible start to the season, games are badly needed for most. Odd starting XI from Ole
 

Mr C

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you can't mark Lindelof a 1 because he's poor and Maguire as 5 because he needs a new partner. Maybe Lindelof needs a new partner and would be better too. They were both terrible.
 

Red Warrior

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Why can't I? Lindeloff was f**king dire and Maguire was just bad. I have slightly edited Maguires comments. If you think Lindeloff would be better with a new partner that's up to you but you'd be in a minority of about 1% amongst the fan base. He's not good enough.
 

jsp

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De Gea 6 - Few shaky moments with his feet but made a good save from Ayew and had no chance with the goals unlucky with the pen retake moved a split second to soon.

TFM 5 - ok didn't really do much wrong but little impact on the game but he's the 3rd choice right back so give him a bit of a break.
Lindelöf 2 - culpable on all 3 goals and I think was targeted as the weak link by Palace.
Maguire 4 - wasn't at fault on goals but was very sloppy especially with the ball which gave the opponent chances.
Shaw 4 - no real impact on the game going forward and was caught napping on the first goal.

McTominay 4 - looked rusty sloppy passing
Pogba 4 - Same as above

James 3 - totally ineffective first half but these are not games that play to his strength especially out of position.
Bruno 5 - Ran his nuts off tried to make things happen but just wasn't going for him
Rashford 3 - Very little impact on the game

Martial 3 - Rusty

All round bad day at the office out worked by the opponents and out thought as well they had a clear plan on how to unsettle us and create chances we had no real plan for how to deal with them.
 

Mr C

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Why can't I? Lindeloff was f**king dire and Maguire was just bad. I have slightly edited Maguires comments. If you think Lindeloff would be better with a new partner that's up to you but you'd be in a minority of about 1% amongst the fan base. He's not good enough.

I get Maguire/Lindeloff is personal taste, I just find odd that one is marked up because his partner is rubbsh, when really, you could use the same argument for Lindeloff, Maguire was awful, so Lindeloff might have been better with a different CB.

they were equally bad for me. 4
 

Red Warrior

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I don't get that you think I marked one up more because his partner is rubbish?

Lindeloff WAS rubbish regardless of anyone else on the pitch
Maguire wasn't great regardless of anyone else on the pitch.

JSP has quoted:
Lindelöf 2 - culpable on all 3 goals and I think was targeted as the weak link by Palace.
Maguire 4 - wasn't at fault on goals but was very sloppy especially with the ball which gave the opponent chances.

Pretty much the same as what I have said!
 

boothstownred

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Unfortunately though I don't think they were equally bad. Maguire had a bit of a stinker tbh and he was still better than lindelof. I agree lindelof would probably look better alongside a different type of player to Maguire but I still believe Maguire is the better option. The bottom line is though get a centre half in and whoever proves to be the best partnership plays.
 

Red Warrior

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If Bailly could stay fit for longer than 4 weeks and stop trying to tackle everyone with his head he would be a better fit.
 

IDFD

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DDG - 6 - Didn’t do much wrong. Almost got caught out by a short ball. Utterly ridiculous that the penalty was retaken that would have been great for his confidence.

TFM - 4 - Not sure what people rate about this fella but he was shocking in the final third and not much better defensively.
Lindelof - 3 - I don’t think you can blame him for the penalty. However he should have been the cause of another goal but Zaha backed out. That headed pass back was ridiculous.
Maguire - 5 - Unlike the rest of the defence I don’t think he did too much wrong he’s always going to struggle against the style of forwards Palace have though.
Shaw - 4 - Didn’t really notice much of him through out.

McT - 3 - Did he do anything good defensively for our DM?
Pogba - 3 - Where is this world class player we talk about. He’ll be in danger of losing his place in the side to DVDB
Bruno - 6 - Nothing came off for him but he was easily the best player in a United shirt.

James - 4 - He couldn’t get much right but unlike the other 2 upfront he kept going and didn’t hide. Shouldn’t be starting ahead of Greenwood though.
Martial - 3 - Back to the player that doesn’t look up for games. I’d love to sign Ings.
Rashford - 2 - His worse performance in a United shirt?
 

SuperRash

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I don’t think it was Rashford’s worst performance but it was along the lines of his performances to the back end of last season. He just does not look right at all.

I would say VDB was the one bright spark so would give him a solid 7 for his contribution.

Everyone else should be a rusty 4 (downgrading Lindelof to a 3), maybe except Bruno who did work his socks off but was a little rusty.

Pogba was a massive disappointment but you could clearly see he wasn’t himself and looked done after 45 minutes. Hopefully this game will be good to get some minutes in his legs and he can come back against Brighton a different player.
 

jsp

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DDG - 6 - Didn’t do much wrong. Almost got caught out by a short ball. Utterly ridiculous that the penalty was retaken that would have been great for his confidence.

Thing with the pen is thanks to VAR now checking every penalty any keeper that even move 1mm off the line will get this punishment if he makes the save. Keepers were told this months ago so should have been practising to change their style to stop trying to gain that small advantage some keepers are actually standing just behind the line to allow them to move forward.

I think it's crazy making it far to easy for the taker some judgment needs to be applied to stop the keepers who were taking huge steps forward.

Especially killer for De Gea as that was the first pen he'd saved since the FA Cup semi final vs Everton in 2016 I may be wrong but that includes shoot outs. For a keeper with such fantastic reflexes he is not a good penalty stopper.
 

jsp

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What I'm saying is, the same could be said of Lindeloff.

Can it?

We've tried him with Bailly (not very regularly) and with Smalling (most of 2018/19) since he came in and he's not looked comfortable next to either of them he's looked most comfortable with Maguire. 2018/19 was our worst season from a defensive point of view in 30 odd years we let in a ridiculous amount of goals that season. AWB & Maguire coming in made a massive difference to that last season.

Maguire has not had a run of games at this club with anyone other than Lindelöf.
 

Mr C

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you all think Maguire is great, I don't. Simple.

They both would look better with a better partner along side them.

You can't compare when Lindeloff played with Bailly or whoever, it was a completely different system where the manager somehow made every single player in the sqaud look pap.
 

Red Warrior

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Red Warrior said:
I don't get that you think I marked one up more because his partner is rubbish?
Red Warrior said:
Maguire - 5 Needs a better defensive partner to bring best out of him. Wasn't his finest game in a Utd shirt.
What I'm saying is, the same could be said of Lindeloff.



Possibly yes, i see where you are coming from but Maguire is the better defender by miles. Lindeloff's only real attribute is he can play out from the back, he's not much good at anything else. I can't personally see Lindeloff being better with anyone where I can with Maguire.

Lindeloff on his best isn't good enough, Maguire is.
 

jsp

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League only figures.

2016/17 Mourinho's first season before Lindelöf signed 29 goals conceded
2017/18 Mourinho's second season Lindelöf signed at the start of the season 28 goals conceded he played 17 PL games that season
2018/19 Mourinho/Ole season. 54 goals conceded Lindelöf played 30 games that season (Smalling played 29)
2019/20 Ole season and Maguire signs. 36 goals conceded Lindelöf played 35 games that season (Maguire played 38).

I've tried to keep a level head on this and not just pick on Lindelöf but there's some pretty alarming patterns in that the more games he plays the more goals we seem to be letting in.

Worth noting in both 2018/19 and 2019/20 our keeper was having a meltdown whereas the 2 previous seasons he was being Mr ridiculous making our crap defence look good.

So Lindelöf has had 2 full seasons as a starter one absolute horror show season defensively and one good season.

I watch pretty much every game and the amount of times I see him easily beaten by an opponent is a big alarm bell to me and I'm not saying Maguire is perfect and doesn't get beaten to easily sometimes but it seems to be like Lindelöf is the weaker of the two options.

The fact Mourinho was desperate to buy another centre back in 2018 and Ole went big on a new one in 2019 and sounds like he wants another in 2020 suggests both managers have little faith in Lindelöf at this level.
 

Mr C

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at 80m I would put the fault at Maguires feet. The most expensive defender in football and we're saying he needs someone else to make him look good.

Now I know the money is not fault his fault, but the fact is we spent 80m on a defender and we're sitting here saying we need to spend more money to make him look good.

I would doubt anyone, but a united fan, would say Maguire is top drawer. It feels like we need to pick on one, so lets go Lindelof.

Neither are great. But their stats last year say they do ok together.

I couldn't sit here and say Maguire is better than Lindeloff. The last few games of last season it was Maguires mistakes costing goals.

They are as good, or as bad, as each other.
 

Red Warrior

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There is a reason most of the fan base want a RF, CB and LF.

We haven't got a current RF, Lindeloff is not good enough and nor is Shaw at LB
 

Red Warrior

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at 80m I would put the fault at Maguires feet. The most expensive defender in football and we're saying he needs someone else to make him look good.

Now I know the money is not fault his fault, but the fact is we spent 80m on a defender and we're sitting here saying we need to spend more money to make him look good.

I would doubt anyone, but a united fan, would say Maguire is top drawer. It feels like we need to pick on one, so lets go Lindelof.

Neither are great. But their stats last year say they do ok together.

I couldn't sit here and say Maguire is better than Lindeloff. The last few games of last season it was Maguires mistakes costing goals.

They are as good, or as bad, as each other.

So Maguire isn't a Ferdinand or Vidic by any means, or even a VVD, he's not the best defender in the world, ok he was the most expensive defender ever which flatters him immensely but he's certainly better than Lindeloff. He's average at pretty much everything where Maguire is excellent in the air and can pass out from the back. If I was a forward I'd put the pressure on him over Maguire all day long.

Anyway, it's always personal choice and opinion at the end of the day.
 

IDFD

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at 80m I would put the fault at Maguires feet. The most expensive defender in football and we're saying he needs someone else to make him look good.

Now I know the money is not fault his fault, but the fact is we spent 80m on a defender and we're sitting here saying we need to spend more money to make him look good.

I would doubt anyone, but a united fan, would say Maguire is top drawer. It feels like we need to pick on one, so lets go Lindelof.

Neither are great. But their stats last year say they do ok together.

I couldn't sit here and say Maguire is better than Lindeloff. The last few games of last season it was Maguires mistakes costing goals.

They are as good, or as bad, as each other.

Forget the price tags of the two players and focus on whose just the better player. It's Maguire and it isn't close. And Lindelof wasn't exactly cheap. He's been a massive disappointment.

Lindelof is a liability I genuinely don't know how people watch him in the premier league and think he's a better player than United. As of now i'd ship Lindelof off to Spain for £30m watch him thrive where the game is less physical and less 60 yard balls that he struggles to deal with. He makes basic mistakes too often.

You mention Maguire's mistakes. Lindelof made more mistakes on Saturday than most CB's make in a season. Why are you giving him a pass on these terrible errors and then saying it's like people are picking on him. He's had an absolute shocker. A performance you rarely see as bad from a premiership defender.
 

jsp

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If you put them both on the market right now for 30m guess which one is being sold by the end of tomorrow?

Maguire starts for every team in this league other fans might like to mock him because that's the social media world now but every manager in this league buys Maguire and puts him straight in his starting XI.

The 30m we paid for Lindelöf in 2017 I think makes him the 3rd most expensive centre back in our history probably just in the top 10 most expensive in PL history so he still needs to be held to a very high standard as well

Utd paid a premium fee for Maguire because we targeted a player from a domestic rival on a very long contract and because of the success of Van Dijk his club felt they were within their rights to ask for a very high fee. They tried to scare off the market and they did City couldn't pay but Utd decided he was the 1 they wanted so probably paid maybe 25% above the fair price to get him sometimes that has to be done.

Judged against the greats of our history neither is going in that group any time soon but Rio was a very special player to be at the top as long as he was is an incredible achievement but the game has also changed to give even more advantage to attackers, full backs becoming even more attacking meaning as a centre back you are left so much more exposed than you were even 10 years ago. So it's always hard to judge players between generations.
 

Mr C

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I'm not sat here saying Lindeloff is excellent.

You're all misunderstanding me. I'm saying Maguire is not very good either. Why pick on Lindelof. They both are pretty average and make lots of mistakes.

I don' think it helps when your midfield is playing rubbish, along with your full backs who aren't exactly the best. Rio and Vidic were excellent, they had Evra Carrick etc around them. You can't compare players like that really.

For me, they aint the best, but our defensive record last year was pretty good. Stop the bashing of either of them, they are what they are. Average CB's. We're not going to win the league with them, but that's not our current goal.
 

Red Warrior

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How can Maguire be 'not be very good'

He'd walk into most, if not all Premiership teams!
 

jsp

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No lets keep having a debate over why people see it one way or the other it's not going to change anything but it kills a few hours of the day doesn't it. Can respect your stance even if I don't agree with it.

Lindelöf normally has one of if not the best right back next to him when it comes to defending whereas Maguire has Shaw being Shaw so teams I think normally look to target us down our left side rather than our right side.

Lindelöf for me has had 3 pretty crap seasons as a Utd player Maguire has had 1 good one so we all agree this partnership isn't working so the one I think you look to replace first is Lindelöf. If Maguire and a new partner don't gel then Lindelöf gets a crack with the new guy.

Other than his transfer fee I don't see people highlighting goals that Maguire has cost us I'll name one he got absolutely rinsed by a Bournemouth player who snuck one through his legs and made him look a right tit. It happens even the great players make mistakes did Vidic ever get through 90 minutes vs Liverpool without getting sent off? Can think of two Rio Ferdinand own goals where he tried playing blind passes back to the keeper.
 

Mr C

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It's just opinions. I couldn't say whether he'd get into to other teams, I don't watch them enough. But whenever I see him I don't see a stand out centre back. I also don't recall any other teams in for him, think city might have been but they knew he wasn't an £80m defender.

One semi last year he cost at least one goal and was poor in a few of those games towards the end but he didn't get slaughtered like Lindelof does.

As I keep saying, their actual record last season, clean sheets and goals conceded was good. So maybe both of them are better than all of us give them credit for. My real point is, I don't see a majot gulf in quality between the two. They both have mistakes in them, as do all CB's. Vidic used to get torn a new one everytime he played Torres.
 

Cosmic Slop

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De Gea - 6 saved a pen and had that great one handed save.

TFM - 2
Lindelof - 2
Maguire - 2
Shaw - 3

McT - 5 Our best outfield player who started.
Pogba - 3

James - 3
Bruno - 4
Rashford - 2 Had to check the team sheet to be sure he even played.

Martial - 2

Greenwood - 3
DVB - 7
Ighalo - 3

Overall team - 3
 

boothstownred

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I think the bottom line is we need a centre half no matter what. The chances are Maguire and lindelof will both still be st the club. Maguire will be in the box seat to be first choice but lindelof will get his chance. There will be a position up for grabs.
 

Cosmic Slop

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How can Maguire be 'not be very good'

He'd walk into most, if not all Premiership teams!
Interesting, then, that no one else was in for him and he was playing for Leicester instead of Man City or Liverpool. There are 20 [edit 40. Math is hard] starting CBs in the league. Maguire is in the middle of that pack. He's better than some of the CBs in teams that will finish in the bottom half of the table, but he's not better than those in the top 4 teams. When I watch Maguire I see a poor man's John Terry. I'm no fan of Terry as a human being but he was an excellent CB. Maguire is in the team to perform that role but he is not fit to shine Terry's boots. Rewatch Chelsea when Terry was in his pomp and he commanded the box and marshaled his defenders like a beast. That's the role Maguire is supposed to fulfill and he's not doing it.
 

IDFD

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There are 40 starting CB's in the league. 2 are better than Maguire at a push. VVD and Laporte. No one else.

City were in for him. Pep loves him.
 

Cosmic Slop

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There are 40 starting CB's in the league. 2 are better than Maguire at a push. VVD and Laporte. No one else.

City were in for him. Pep loves him.
Are you going to just keep asserting your opinion as fact, over and over? This is a difference of a opinion. You rate him very, very highly. I don't know any United fans who rate him anywhere near the top of the league, and in every other United group I am a part of, Maguire is thought to be serviceable with the magical thinking that if he gets the right magical partner next to him he will suddenly be worth the money. No one outside of this forum has ever put forward that Maguire is somehow world class or one of the best 3 CBs in the league.
 

Shoot

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My take on this is:- our central defence is actually pretty poor and we are entitled to expect it to get better. Maguire has been afforded his settling in period (remember Vidic needed this as well).
As long as it is poor it will always be the easier option to blame Lindelof and he often does get unfair criticism for that simple reason.
But when you boil it down, Maguire is the better CB of the two so if one needs to go then its Lindelof. And time is running out for the partnership to start working!
 

IDFD

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Are you going to just keep asserting your opinion as fact, over and over? This is a difference of a opinion. You rate him very, very highly. I don't know any United fans who rate him anywhere near the top of the league, and in every other United group I am a part of, Maguire is thought to be serviceable with the magical thinking that if he gets the right magical partner next to him he will suddenly be worth the money. No one outside of this forum has ever put forward that Maguire is somehow world class or one of the best 3 CBs in the league.

Give me this list of 10-20 better CB’s in the league then if he’s middle of the road. I remember you went through it before with people from other leagues and mentioned Tarkowski in the premier league amongst others. I’ll find that. I keep saying it because there aren’t 10+ better defenders out of the starting 40 CB’s that are better than him. And he is better than Lindelof every single statistical measure proves that but people bury their heads when shown the facts.

I don’t know anyone other than people on this forum that don’t think of Maguire as a top 3 centre back and that includes the numerous Spurs and Chelsea fans I talk to on a daily basis.
 

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