Man U v Swansea. Your thoughts?

Red Warrior

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I felt the game was typical Utd of last season for 80 minutes. We had the possession, they had 10 men behind the ball and we rarely looked like scoring. Unfortunately for us when we did score it was half time so we couldn't kick on and take advantage of the knock on effect.

The second half was much the same, it was nasty to watch. Until the second goal went in and Swansea collapsed and we went on to score another 2 I was thinking here we go again.

I think if the game ended 1-0 and we didn't have the flurry at the end all the headlines would be negative rather than how they were. The score flattered us somewhat.

Am I being overly negative? We were playing Swansea, not Chelsea or Man City and we struggled to break them down. Miki didn't show up for most of the game, Mata was quiet again.

BUT, last season we would have drawn that game.

What are your thoughts?
 
We were in control but the game was in the edge. The changes to the system were made and we put the game to bed.

Rashford really has to sort his finishing out. He could have buried the last two games for us much sooner. Also Saturday saw a side to him we haven't seen before he was stripping and selfish at points.

But my God one of the flicks he done down the left wing was an absolute delight.
 
Yeah I thought for the first 80 minutes we neglected the wide areas far to much and tried to constantly play down the middle, game was always under control and bar a mistake or a well executed mistake we were never in danger of conceding as Swansea has no interest in attacking. Hard to be to critical when a team plays with a line of 5 and 4, there was no space and we done well not to panic and stay patient, last year we would have been lumping it into the box and having Fellani up front, this year we stayed patient stuck to the game plan, scored from a set piece which meant Swansea would have to come onto us at some point, as soon as they did we were ruthless.

on another day we could have been 3 up at half time, Jones should have scored, Bailly did and Rashford should have scored, dunno what he was thinking with that finish!

Good thing about Saturday is we are finishing games strong, we look strong, powerful, commanding and ruthless, reminds me a lot of the Fergie teams who would just apply pressure pressure pressure until finally the opposition can't keep us out, which was more often than not in the last 15-20 minutes so for me it bodes well.
 
I'd love to see a few rampant performances where we just tear into teams from the off so we can cruise the second half. Really establish ourselves again and get the fear factor back.
We certainly did a great job of wearing Swansea down though, it was obvious the couldn't live with us.
 
@Red Warrior exactly my concern after the first two games also - we're having trouble creating clear chances through our own initiative. That might sound like a crazy observation of a team that's scored 8 goals in two games, yet all but one of those were gifted by the opposition. We can't rely on this against teams a level up from Swansea and West Ham.

Against Swansea we looked suspiciously like a Van Gaal side for 80 minutes as we passed the ball around and dominated possession without really penetrating or creating clear openings. The opener came only through some non-existent marking from a corner to provide a free header. We were helped throughout by the fact that Swansea were pitiful in attack without Sigurdsson or Llorente. Had Swansea mustered a goal in those 80 minutes the change to their defensive shape wouldn't have occurred and it could have been a very different result. As it was, Clement subbed off a centre back for an attacker midway through the second half and only after that, for a four minute spell, did the floodgates open.

Against West Ham it was a similar combination of their defensive errors and impotence in attack without Antonio, Lanzini and Carroll, that resulted in our comfortable win. Lukaku's opener came from West Ham giving the ball away cheaply to provide us a four on three situation. The second was awful defending by Masuaku on a set piece to allow Lukaku a free header from 6 yards. Pogba's shot was quite tame and not placed in the corner - it was poor positioning and goalkeeping from Hart which contributed more to the fourth goal.

Which leaves Martial's goal against West Ham as the only one over the two games where we opened up the defence on our own initiative and good play without requiring an obvious defensive change or error to let us in.

Although I've been happy to see Mourinho resist a three man midfield in favour of an extra attacker, I still feel it's the system and way we defend that's causing us issues in readily opening defences. That feeling is compounded further by the defensive substitution we made in both games we led - Fellaini on for Mata.

Of course, two wins, 8 goals and sitting top of the table show that hasn't hindered us as yet. The worry is, with Leicester, Stoke, Everton, Southampton and Liverpool in our next six games, who are each a degree better than Swansea and West Ham at both ends of the pitch, I'm not convinced we have learnt from the many draws of last season.
 
The game lacked cutting edge until 80 minutes when Swansea finally came out of their fox hole and space opened up for the Utd attackers.

Swansea made it tough but Utd were ruthless once it opened up just like they did vs West Ham. That's the difference between last season and this one.

Once again Mata was very quiet couldn't really get anything going.
 
The game lacked cutting edge until 80 minutes when Swansea finally came out of their fox hole and space opened up for the Utd attackers.

Swansea made it tough but Utd were ruthless once it opened up just like they did vs West Ham. That's the difference between last season and this one.

Had Swansea nicked a goal in those 80 minutes and/or not presented Pogba a free header, chances are they wouldn't have opened up. Then would it be any different to last season?
 
Had Swansea nicked a goal in those 80 minutes and/or not presented Pogba a free header, chances are they wouldn't have opened up. Then would it be any different to last season?

Had they scored when they hit the bar at 0-0, had jones scored at 0-0 or Rashord the game would've been different, goals change games. The point is after Jose made the subs they never looked like scoring despite trying to attack and Utd couldn't stop scoring.

The point was in relation to last season we went 1-0 up then ruthlessly killed a team off late on we didn't give them the chance to get back in it.

I don't think it'll be smooth sailing if this team goes behind can they recover? In big games can we play defensively but carry a counter attacking threat? Alternatively, can we keep the ball in big games and take on the better sides? Obviously we don't know the answers to these questions after 2 games against 2 weak sides but I'll take a positive that we can go away from home and not play well for 80 minutes then blow a team away in 5.

Top sides have that in the locker and it's great to see a Utd team have that skill again.
 
Cant believe people still ain't happy with 6 points on the board after 2 games. Come on people! Well I say people it's Gav81 again. You can't say we've played lesser teams and your not impressed. How many sides have slipped up against 'weaker' sides and it's cost them over the years? There's no gimmes in this league. Every single team would want to be us right now. We can't only play the sides we are told to play. Weekend done top of the league got to be delighted.

No one can honestly say we will struggle against bigger sides because we've not been in there with them yet. We DONT know what would, could or might happen. After watching everyone play so far, teams have got more reason to be worried about us, then we have of them at the minute. When's the last time that happened?

The only thing the Swansea game proved is what Edgyy1968 said we need width width and more width. Mata/Pogba/Miki all played on top of each other when a winger would pull the pitch out and make it bigger. Either that or get the Luke Shaw from Southampton. Not the identical twin they sold us who's been injured a lot. The real guy.
 
I'm happy with the 6 points but, similar to after our opening two (three) wins last season, I think there's room for improvement in our tactical approach to the games.
 
In what sense? Jose went with an extra attacker on Saturday. He also timed perfectly when to make changes. When The game was open enough for Martial to come on. If your restricting a side to pump a ball in the box you've tactically done very well. When a team is relaying on a second ball or winning a header as their only threat there isn't much more you can do.

The only niggle in my head is the winger situation. But after watching City, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool play twice we are 100% in better shape then those.
 
I have been shaking my head at comments on twitter and various other place...
A great performance
Our goal scoring problems are over
We have the best attack and defense in the league
on and on

Truth is we did play reasonably ok (not great) against West Ham and laboured against Swansea. If we hadn't had the flurry of goals at the end and they were 1-0 scorelines everyone would be singing a different tune. It never ceases to surprise me how fickle some fans our eg comments above. We are 2 games in, ok top of the league with 8 goals but you really need to look beyond all that as I'm sure Jose will be. It's never easy playing against a 10 man defense like we have done for 2 games but when we play teams who will have a go will we truly see where we really are. Can we defend and attack like someone said above, have we got 'the minerals' when we play City, Chelsea etc and are not in possession most of the game, maybe sometimes struggling to get the ball and it will happen.

I hope with Matic's positional nous and Lukaku's pace and better movement we should fair better this season regardless. If we turned half of the draws last year into wins and some of the crappy loseses into draws we will be right up there.

I feel we really need a right sided winger though. Mata, I wont say he was poor, but was very quiet on the right of midfield both games. We need someone right out there on the touchline Beckhamstyle, I'd be tempted to stick Darmian right back and try Valencia on the right until we get the cheque book out for someone. The pace we would have left and right then with Rashford and Valencia would be amazing. And Valencia has it in his tank to track back too. I feel the team would be more balanced with a proper right winger. Mata likes to stay central and gives Miki no space.
 
Had Swansea nicked a goal in those 80 minutes and/or not presented Pogba a free header, chances are they wouldn't have opened up. Then would it be any different to last season?

I think you're forgetting the Mata chance when the keeper was in no mans land, Rashford should have scored when through on goal, Jones hitting the bar should have scored and the goal itself, so for all our none attacking, we could have been 4 goals to the good at half time, 2 4-0 wins enjoy the moment, and one thing you have failed to mention is Everton, Stoke, Southampton, Leicester and Liverpool is that they all won't sit with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes, the only thing we were guilty of in my opinion on Saturday was not using the space out wide enough everything went through the middle but bar that what is there to complain about?

The above teams will all have a go and have some attacking intent which should make for a more open game which will suit the style we are wanting to play
 
Yes we've only played Swansea and West Ham. However Chelsea dropped points to Burnley who got 1 away win last season. Arsenal dropped points to Stoke and Liverpool to Watford. Those three teams are both going to be in the relegation battle this season you can drop points against anyone in this league.

Didn't we drop points against Swansea and West Ham last season?

Think we beat Swansea away drew with them at home. Same with West Ham so on last seasons fixtures we are 2 points up so far.
 
ruth is we did play reasonably ok (not great) against West Ham and laboured against Swansea. If we hadn't had the flurry of goals at the end and they were 1-0 scorelines everyone would be singing a different tune. It never ceases to surprise me how fickle some fans our eg comments above. We are 2 games in, ok top of the league with 8 goals but you really need to look beyond all that as I'm sure Jose will be. It's never easy playing against a 10 man defense like we have done for 2 games but when we play teams who will have a go will we truly see where we really are. Can we defend and attack like someone said above, have we got 'the minerals' when we play City, Chelsea etc and are not in possession most of the game, maybe sometimes struggling to get the ball and it will happen.

I hope with Matic's positional nous and Lukaku's pace and better movement we should fair better this season regardless. If we turned half of the draws last year into wins and some of the crappy loseses into draws we will be right up there.

There's laboring and then there's laboring. There's passing the ball around LVG style, then there's controlling the game. I'm not giving us the title now by any stretch but you cant moan about how we've gone about the start of the season. Obviously there are much harder and sterner tests to come, but I've seen nothing from anyone else so far that's panicked me. I don't think we were at any point under any sort of threat in either game. The same cant be said of anyone else in the league. Like IDFD points out Chelsea let in 3 against Burnley. There's going to be plenty of chances to moan coming up, dont start now when we have played how we've played and are where we are. Picture them poor City lads, everyone telling them they are going to win the league. Took them 70 mins to break Brighton down, then were lucky to get a point last night. Wouldn't you be more concerned to be a City fan? We can only beat what's in front of us and we have comfortably no one else has.
 
It's ridiculous that some of our fans are complaining that we won cause of defensive frailties of our opposition rather than due to our own attacking prowess. What does that even mean that the opposition gifted us goals? What consist of us creating a goal of our own initiative? You could reduce each goal scored by every team to defensive errors. But that is being too unfair to the goal scorer as well as the scoring team. We need to be good enough to capitalize on the errors of the opposition too. It's not like the goal keeper just gifted the ball to our striker or the defense went for a cuppa when lukaku/martial were bearing down on the goal. Don't try and make it sound like our attack is inept and we scored 8 goals all due to defensive errors.
 
The first goal we scored against West Ham the interception was made 65 yards from goal. Last season we turn it over a few times not score on the counter at speed with Ibra keeping up with Rashford.
 
However Chelsea dropped points to Burnley who got 1 away win last season. Arsenal dropped points to Stoke and Liverpool to Watford. Those three teams are both going to be in the relegation battle this season you can drop points against anyone in this league.

haha couldn't agree more that Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool will be in a relegation battle! :p
 
The only issue for me so far this season is the right wing position, everything has gone down our left while Mata was on the pitch and it cant be a coincidence that 6 of the 8 goals that we have scored have come after Fellani has come on, we have moved to a 3 midfield and Miki has been put out wide, I think all of his assists, maybe bar one, have come after this tactical change.

If we are going to play Miki as a No 10 whenever we play 4231 then I think a pacey right winger is needed. I would play Rashford there but he is so dangerous coming in from the left onto his right foot but that is the only position in the squad that I think we need to look at.

Big weekend coming up, Chelsea Everton, Liverpool Arsenal, City at Bournemouth, beat Leicester and a few more rivals potentially dropping some more points
 
Couldn't agree more!! Right wing is now essential. Martial, Rashford, Miki if need be and dare I say Lingard can all play left while Miki and Lingard probably only on the right. Miki is suited more to the middle and Lingard suited more to the bench. Young can play both but we're scraping the bottom of the barrel now. We need a quality right winger.

I know Perisic can play both wings but is better on the left, Lemar left and Draxler left so who do you get to go there? If we bring in one of those then I would think Martials time is up, probably from him pushing thru a move himself as there would be even less of a starting place for him.
 
Yeah I don't think its a massive issue as we can probably get away with Mata, Rashford etc playing out wide right against the lesser teams and still win as I think against anyone top 6 or 7 he will go with a 3 man midfield and Miki will play out on the right so I think we can get away with it to a degree.

As for players to come in, not actually to sure to be honest, Mahrez looks to have his mojo back, Perisic can play both wings as you say, we should never have gotten rid of Zaha! David Moyes at his absolute best with that one! All the top ones in world football seem to be either at a huge club or on their way, you think of Bale, Robben (to old), Di Maria (for obvious reasons), Bale, Dembele etc. can't think of to many more.
 
Yeah I don't think its a massive issue as we can probably get away with Mata, Rashford etc playing out wide right against the lesser teams and still win as I think against anyone top 6 or 7 he will go with a 3 man midfield and Miki will play out on the right so I think we can get away with it to a degree.

As for players to come in, not actually to sure to be honest, Mahrez looks to have his mojo back, Perisic can play both wings as you say, we should never have gotten rid of Zaha! David Moyes at his absolute best with that one! All the top ones in world football seem to be either at a huge club or on their way, you think of Bale, Robben (to old), Di Maria (for obvious reasons), Bale, Dembele etc. can't think of to many more.

I think the more obvious solution might be Herrera comes into the midfield play Mhiki right, Lukaku centre and Rashford/Martial left. I think he just likes having that extra attacking guy in vs the weaker sides Mata hasn't really fired yet but he will have his moments and he leaves that space for Valencia to come forward.

It seems highly likely the Ibra signs another deal but other than that I don't see anything else happening before the window shuts. The good news is Shaw, Rojo and to a lesser extent Young all back in training so starting to see a bit more depth. I don't like Young but I think he gives good like for like replacement to Valencia when the games come twice a week Tony V will need some rest.

Utd seem to be in a position where we hope Rashford or Martial become one of these elite level stars as like you say all the top ones have already been snapped up by others. I'd love to see Utd go hard for Dembele from Dortmund next season that kid seems born to play for Utd as we love a dribbler but if his card is marker by Barcelona its hard to see us fighting them off unless we make a big statement in champs league this season.
 
Yeah Griezmann next summer as well, played up front for At Madrid last 12/18 months but has always been a RW, thinking about Zlatan signing a new deal what do people think about him as a 10 against the lesser teams, Martial/Rashford Zlatan Miki with Lukaku up front and Pogba joining in, Zlatan last year loved to drop deep issue we had was people running in behind him, he is creative, strong, good in the air, great at long shots, arriving late in the box, great finisher both footed etc don't need pace to play 10, anyone think it could work till summer and we get a top class RW in?

Thoughts lol just an idea
 
Yes, when Zlatan first came in, I thought he would play the number 10 role, pulling the strings with pace ahead of him. It surprised me he played as a lone striker and was often left isolated up the pitch.
 
I'd rather not see us sign Zlatan. Yes he's a great player and he gave us a good season but he's not conducive to the style of football we want to play he hasn't got the pace for it.
 
My guess is if Zlatan comes back he will be used off the bench or possibly up top with Lukaku as you say @Edgy1968 he can drop deep and link the play plus he gives you a threat in the air on crosses and also long shot options.

There's also the chance of Lukaku going wide which he did at times for Everton especially against full backs who might struggle with a direct runner coming at them.

I really think Zlatan will be more of a backup if he does sign but if he gets back to near his best he could easily force his way into the team.
 
Yeah think he will be back up as you say was just thinking about it yesterday and thought Miki out wide Zlatan pulling the strings between the midfield and attack, gives us an extra option anyway
 
I'd rather not see us sign Zlatan. Yes he's a great player and he gave us a good season but he's not conducive to the style of football we want to play he hasn't got the pace for it.

For all Ibra's talents I have to agree but could be interesting as a No.10 with Lukaku ahead of him.
 
You boys be up for me replacing Jose when he goes haha
Why the hell not. Nothing ventured nothing gained hey.

I wouldn't mind Zlatan coming back into the fray but like others have said not as a starter. He would be a terrific option off the bench because he can still do extraordinary things. He'll clearly be rusty in the opening weeks of the potential new spell, so coming off the bench will be his role. If we are well in the mix mid season, he would be a boost to us and would definitely have rivals a little worried that we have someone so good coming back in.
 
You boys be up for me replacing Jose when he goes haha

I'm going to have to say no. If we are giving it to someone without any managerial experience i'm going to appoint myself the holder of a 6 yr £150k a week contract!
 
I'm going to have to say no. If we are giving it to someone without any managerial experience i'm going to appoint myself the holder of a 6 yr £150k a week contract!

Didn't realise David Moyes had joined us.

How's retirement???
 
Yeah think he will be back up as you say was just thinking about it yesterday and thought Miki out wide Zlatan pulling the strings between the midfield and attack, gives us an extra option anyway

I certainly think in some games he'd provide some necessary support but the thing with Zlatan is he is like a magnet to the ball and he's always been that way it's hard not to play everything through him because he is so good but you need that variety in play.

I think our midfield is probably strong enough to ignore him at times and mix it up but you then get that thing that Rooney did where he keeps coming really deep to just get a touch which isn't always helpful.

However, if our attacking sub option was Ibra as the 2nd attacker rather than Fellaini then I'm all over that. Also, I think his winning mentality in the changing room could be vital as there's not many serial winners in that dressing room if Utd are in the hunt for trophies come the end of the season.
 
I'm going to have to say no. If we are giving it to someone without any managerial experience i'm going to appoint myself the holder of a 6 yr £150k a week contract!

Haha thats just pure greed, the United fans on here already on your back as its obviously you only put your CV forward due to the money on offer! haha
 

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