Long term approach over short-termism

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#1
Interesting article by the Guardian here and you can see why the club didn’t back José in some of the reputed targets.

Alderweireld would have been £50m plus for a 29 year old who will be free next summer, £40m plus on Boateng who’s age and injury record are none too appealing. Then potentially £70m on Willian who is also 29 and could be considered on the wane.

Sanchez was fine because it was a swap deal and even though the wages are steep he didn’t command a big transfer fee. I think if Arsenal came to us and said you can have Sanchez for £60m I’m not sure the boats would have sanctioned that for a guy who is 30 in December.

Obviously you’ve got to back your manager but because Jose is usually seen a short term manager, maybe the board have decided to think for the long term, rather than pile money on signings with a view to short term?
 

jsp

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#2
Was just about to post this the guy who wrote article has clearly been briefed and he's one of the top investigative sports journalists around he's not some BS merchant so this is about as close to gospel as you'll get out of a newspaper. From what I've heard this is the story from the Woodward side.

Just further proof really of a disfunctional structure at the club and shows why this summer has been a complete waste of time. For a club to succeed we need our board, manager, players and fans all pulling together this just proves that there tension between all camps and when that happens things break.

Why did Mourinho drop his list with Woodward? That list should have been built up with Mourinho, Woodward & Chief scout all in a room all agree who the number 1 target is then 2 then 3 etc along with critical review of why player a,b or c is better than what they have over a period of months. The manager has his say the scouts have their say woodward has his and you come to an agreement that is how management works it is clear that the managers policy does not match that of the boards.

From the sound of it Mourinho gave Woodward his christmas list wanting a puppy, BMX, I-Pad, X-Box etc and is now sulking because mum and dad could only afford the BMX.

To me if the club want to go down this route why have they appointed a short term thinking manager like Mourinho he's notorious for wanting to work with older players and he lives in the here and now he's not a builder? The appointment to me made some sense Utd needed a short term kick up the arse it was panic stations but giving him a new contract last season looks ridiculous now if you're not going to give him what he wants in the transfer market. The manager has to fit the plan you can't ask the manager to adapt to your plan that just isn't how it works in football because a managers success is normally through tried and trusted methods.

This will be the true test of Mourinho is he going to let this go or will it be something he brings up every time the team plays badly or drops points. For the sake of the club he needs to move on from it and get the best he can out of what he's got you can't expect him to get 100 points with that squad but he needs to try and improve on the 80 we ended up with last season.

He needs a clean slate with all the players and he's got to get them together and I'll be honest if the club aren't going to sign the players he wants then they need to allow him to get Martial out of his hair. Even if it's a 1 season loan somewhere just get him out of Mourinho's way for a year.
 

Mr C

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#3
That’s nonsense to me, you call Jose a short term manager, at Chelsea and Madrid that’s what what they want. At United he has used youth. He wanted Willian because he knows he can do what he wants him to and who else is there. I read the only CB web is for was Varane, at 25 a young CB with huge experience. We bid 100m but Madrid not interested. Just more Jose bashing from people who don’t like him and want him to fail
 

Red Warrior

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#4
Where does the info that we had £100m to spend come from? Did Utd release these figures? Maybe we had half of that in which case we spent it on one player. I've had enough of the press rumours, it's mostly made up garbage and that has been proven time and again this transfer window.
 

JSNFRMN

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#5
This has been briefed to the media by Woodward to try and make Mourinho look bad but it’s backfired and I’ve sympathy with Mourinho. Just goes to show these people have no idea what they’re doing in the football world. Why give him the job and extend that contract (presumably) knowing he’s a manager who prefers to work with 28+ year olds and is a notorious short term manager.

Another point is: who the feck is Woodward to veto signings. We are a club that prefers to buy younger players, or ones that are entering or at their peak. 29 year olds for money are rare but Fergie used to try for it when he felt that was what was needed to win the league. Would Alderweireld have made that difference, I’m unsure but he is a leader and we could do with one at the back and in the squad.

A sporting director is very much needed at this club to appoint managers that fit the direction the club wants to go. Managers that want to work with the players the club wants to sign. This current debacle just shows what a shitshow the club currently is.
 

boothstownred

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#6
I am not sure if I am remembering this correctly or not but I am sure before Woodward was employed by United the glazers tasked him with finding out ways in which they could buy the club. Straight away that makes me dislike him.
 

jsp

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#7
That’s nonsense to me, you call Jose a short term manager, at Chelsea and Madrid that’s what what they want. At United he has used youth. He wanted Willian because he knows he can do what he wants him to and who else is there. I read the only CB web is for was Varane, at 25 a young CB with huge experience. We bid 100m but Madrid not interested. Just more Jose bashing from people who don’t like him and want him to fail
It wasn't a dig at Mourinho it was criticism of everyone. Mourinho manages things short term because he has been at clubs who demand instant success he came into Chelsea, Madrid, Inter to try to deliver instant success and he did. He took over clubs who were 2nd but wanted to be 1st not just domestically but also in Europe and again he helped them do that.

At Utd he took over a club that was 5th but want to be 1st you don't go from 5th to 1st in 1 season and sustain that. The 5 seasons before he joined 2nd, 1st, 7th, 4th, 5th the squad from the first 2 years was basically all gone and a new squad had been assembled by 2 managers with almost no scouting network and a Chief Exec who had no experience of doing that role we'd took huge gambles over 3 summers that had pretty much all backfired. I mean who signed in the first 3 summers post Fergie can we say has been a successful signing? Herrera is the only one off the top of my head who I think has come close to delivering what you'd expect of a Utd player on a consistent basis but even then I think I'm being generous. Maybe Mata but again he was a £40m signing for a position that was occupied by the club captain so again totally pointless.

My issue is at the core with the board why are they picking a guy like Mourinho and expecting him to manage the club like say Pochetinno would. If you want Mourinho you have to accept that you back him financially in decisions which might lead to a poor return but his method on paper always delivers success but it comes at a price. If you don't want to do that don't hire him because it won't work. You've basically sent Mourinho a guy who's a champion formula driver into a rally car and expected him to win the rally title. It doesn't work like that and it's why he should have only ever been appointed if the club were prepared to back him massively in the market giving him that new contract as well suggests they were.

I know why he wanted some senior players he'd lost Zlatan, Rooney & Carrick in the last 12 months but the club aren't prepared to pay £75m plus £25m in wages plus agent fees for a guy who in 3 years time is worth nothing the numbers have to stand up. Matic I think is his only wise head in the first team a guy who's won titles he's got Young & Valencia who are good pro's but realistically shouldn't be starting.

Why aren't Mourinho & Woodward sitting down and agreeing a plan or strategy together then leaving the right people to go and execute it. It's obvious that they never agreed the list of targets prior to the summer.

As I said we need Mourinho to just let this lie now and deal with the politics behind the scenes I'm sure Fergie/Gill had bust ups along the way but it was very rarely aired in a public forum but that's not really in Mourinho's nature you know that at the first sign of trouble this topic will come up again.

He 100% needs to back his players now put the summer behind everyone and build a team atmosphere because the only chance we've got of winning anything this season is if everyone is pulling together from day to the final day because it's going to take 90 points minmum to take that title off City. To do that you can't afford a slow start you need a get out ahead and force the opponent to submit.
 

JSNFRMN

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#8
He might be great at getting commercial deals, he's pulled off some great business in the transfer market too but he's not qualified to say if potential signings are good enough or value for money, and should have no say in football matters. Club needs change at board level, there needs to be a sporting director beneath him working with a manager and he can concentrate on working on commercial deals, whether that's Mourinho or someone happier to work with that sporting director I don't care, it needs to happen because the same problems will continue to repeat themselves until then I think.

He's given Mourinho a new contract in the past 12 months and hasn't backed him. Our spend in the 3 summers after securing a top 4 finish has not been enough, this to me points towards them being content with a top 4 finish or little desire in achieving more than that. Mourinho is very much entitled to be agrieved with that lack of ambition. I don't agree with him persuing older players but they've appointed him and given him a contract extension and they've not backed him.

Woodward said at the time of our last financial results that "playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial size of the business" and that is where their main interest lies.
 

jsp

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#9
I doubt Woodward will be forming those opinions himself at least I hope he isn't if he is we are screwed as he's a banker playing real life football manager. I would imagine he's taking advice from scouts possibly even the chief scout who left this summer, agents, coaches in the club, possibly even board members like Fergie or Charlton or maybe an ex player like Nicky Butt who works in the academy to determine if a player is a suitable investment.

Woodward being from a finance background will know better than to just rely on his gut or opinion he'll want to see some data that backs up the decision.

A sporting director should be appointed to control this side of things someone who understands football needs to have a voice on the board but putting that person in now will only sour things with Mourinho further.

He could argue he has backed him he allowed a swap for Sanchez and Mkhitaryan financially Utd were the losers in this one as Mkhitaryan's transfer value was way higher than Sanchez, Sanchez wages are way higher than Mkhitaryan plus we paid his agent a massive commission to get the deal through. We've invested £50m in a replacement for Carrick who's retired. We've given Fellaini a new contract despite him being hugely unpopular with fans because Mourinho wanted him to stay.

People are way to focuse on the lack of players coming in and not focusing on the lack of players going out 2 summers in a row Utd have failed to get rid of players who are not up to the standard and who are on contracts that are expiring and reducing in value. Darmian, Shaw, Herrera & Mata are all 12 months away from contract expiring with no extension clauses if they don't leave in January or sign a new deal that's £110m worth of investment leaving for nothing next summer.

Again those comments were on an investor conference call his job on that call is to maintain investor confidence and what he said is true but the Glazers and the club do want to win they know success feeds the machine but it is not win at all costs there is a budget and it needs to be respected.
 

kef2138

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#10
Obviously you’ve got to back your manager but because Jose is usually seen a short term manager, maybe the board have decided to think for the long term, rather than pile money on signings with a view to short term?
Then they wouldn't have extended Mourinho's contract, given how poor the football has been even after the fortune he had already spent at that time.
 
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