Jose and his current management mistakes

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Red Warrior, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Red Warrior

    Red Warrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,244
    I was thinking this morning about all the gripes I have with Mourinho and thought I'd compile a list and see how many I could get. Please feel free to add to the list.

    1. Playing 4231 formation with little success lately
    2. Not playing a 433
    3. Using Pogba in a 2 man midfield
    4. Not playing Shaw at LB over Young who is a converted RW
    5. Playing Smalling and Jones together (I know injuries have been involved)
    6. Playing Young and Jones vs Newcastle after the were awful against Spurs and dropping Shaw and Rojo after they did ok the Huddesfield
    7. Not playing a settled back 4
    8. Never dropping Lukaku and Matic (who clearly need a rest/dropping) and dropping Shaw and Martial at strange times
    9. Buying a new player (Sanchez) and playing him in our best players position (still cant get my head around that)
    10. Buying a new player that we don't actually need, there are MANY other positions that need attention
    11. Playing Lingard at No.10 against decent teams when he can't break defences down (he's better there against lesser teams)
    12. Surely playing Martial LW, Sanchez No.10 and Lingard RW would be a better solution up front if he is gonna continue banging away with a 4231
    13. Parking the bus too much. Why cant we play quick, attacking football like City, Liverpool and Spurs do?
    14. Offering Fellaini a new contract. Let him go ffs. Which other top 6 team would have him?
    15. Playing the long ball when we need a goal in last 10 minutes.
    16. Publicly calling out players eg Mkhitaryan, Shaw and Martial
    17. Playing Pogba for 66 minutes against Newcastle when he should have come off 60 minutes earlier. He was clearly injured/off the pace/couldn't be bothered/proving a point not to drop him
    18. Throwing Mctominay and Carrick on when we need a goal vs Newcastle. Who puts 2 defensive players on when we need goals?
    19. Being tactically devoid of ideas to change the rut we're in
    20. Not getting the team playing like a team, we are a bunch of individuals at the minute. He's been here 18 months, we should have some fluidity.
     
  2. IDFD

    IDFD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,629
    Here's the thing though.

    I disagree with

    1 - I prefer this formation. It will work justt need to get it right
    2 - See above. I also think too much is made of the 4-2-3-1 4-3-3 argument they can very easily interchange with the correct personel. City/Tottenham play a mixture of both through out games.
    3 - Pogba can play in a two man midfield we saw that numerous times alongside Ander last season and when we were all enjoying the football we were playing at the start of the season.
    4-8 Agreed
    9/10 - Sanchez was available. You get him. Regardless of how good Martial is playing Sanchez is the better player.
    11 - Lingard as earned his opportunity there
    12 - Goes against the above but I actually agree. I'd go Martial Sanches Mata - Left to Right
    13 - I think they're two seperate points. It's not parking the bus that's the problem that's off the ball. On the ball though the ball has to start moving faster. Too many players taking 4/5 touches to do something they could do in 1/2 touches.
    14 - Have we even offered him a new contract?
    15 - Most teams revert to a long ball in similar situations. It just needs to be a more controlled pass.
    16 - I think it's fair to call out players on bad performances. It's looking like it could be the making of Martial and Shaw. Mhki didn't work though.
    17 - Agreed. Think Pogba partially to blame too though
    18 - We really didn't have any options on the bench anyway. The rest of the bench were Lindelof Rojo Romero Shaw - He's thrown on the two more attacking players he could
    19/20 - We are a team playing like individuals and that needs to change but surely the players shoulder some of the blame for this?

    My biggest gripe with Mourinho at the moment is that he seems to happy. I think we're all aware the league has gone and they're all finding it hard to get up for games. But you can see the squad are happier than they have been in ages. You can see they like the manager and you can see the foundations being laid. Lets not forget this is a title charging City team we've seen nothing like before. We're 2nd in the league. We're in the champions league knockouts for the first time since 2014 - Things are getting better. We are seeing improvements.
     
  3. Red Warrior

    Red Warrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,244
    Agree with you, things are improving slowly but take any/most/some/all of my 1 to 20 list and we could be in an even better place. I feel Jose takes us 2 steps forward but then pegs us 1 back.

    And there is everything to play for in getting a UCL spot. Obviously City are runaway league winners this year but now priority is to be best of the rest.
     
  4. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    5,503
    I think the thing is we only know half the story we never really know who is and isn't injured and how anyone is performing or behaving in training we have to make assumptions based on what Mourinho tells us in press conferences which can often be lies or half truths if he needs to keep something in house.

    Right now I think the biggest issue is the managers core formation that he's used for the last 10 years doesn't really fit with our best player in Pogba he's being fitted into the system rather than having the system setup for him. The benefit of this is if we played 433 and we get any injuries in midfield we have to change the formation becuase we have no Pogba replacement and we only have 4 other senion centre mids to pick from and 2 of them have missed huge chunks of the season with injury which is why McTominay has been promoted.

    His other issue is what City are doing because everyone compares us to them and lets face it they are have increased the gap that already existed between the two clubs last season massively this sesaon. Lets not kid ourselves City have been miles ahead of in the 4 seasons post Fergie and while Utd have closed that gap on the rest City have shot off into the distance and at a time of increased spending at Utd that's created a problem for Utd because it's our next door neighbours who are doing that. If it was a london club 30 points clear at the top after spending £1bn on players in the last 10 years it would be so much easier for Mourinho to deal with but it isn't.

    Lastly I really don't think he feels this is his squad yet he's added 9 players I think to the squad LVG left him and only 4 regulars from that squad have gone in Depay, Schniederlin, Rooney & Mkhitaryan (who was one of his signings) you could also add Zlatan to that list. City spent 2 seasons bringing in players to get Pep when he went to Munich they made it their mission to attract him when he decided to go for all we know they'd had the nod from him that he was only going to Germany for 3 years and he was coming their so he arrived with a squad half built for him. They had a massive clear out last summer and since Pep took over have signed something like 17 players I think so it really is a Pep squad now the only guys I think he wants out are Kompany and maybe Aguero whereas I don't think Mourinho really trusts any of the players he inherited apart from De Gea, Valencia & Young which is why he always puts them in for the big games.

    To use the house analogy Pep inherited the shell of a newly built house and he's provided the luxury finishes so the whole thing looks perfect. Mourinho purchased an old house that had character but had been neglected by previous owners and needed work and as you start working away at it you realise there's more work to be done, that roof that was patched up needs fully replaced, the kitchen that needed some new cupboards actually needs units because everything is rotten etc etc.

    This club has been a mess for 5 years now we've jumped into 3 totally different managers and each manager has been allowed to build his own squad LVG & Mourinho couldn't be more chalk and cheese one wants 100% possession and young players he can teach the other isn't bothered by possession and wants experienced players who can think for themselves. An absolute fortune has been wasted on players most of which won't be recovered and while the academy might provide some players the reality is we need to get another 5 quality players into the squad to replace the 10 who will leave/retire over the next 18 months.

    I think even if we finished 5th this season we've got to stick with Mourinho now we've decided to go down this route so got to play it out now season 1 was tough, season 2 is better so lets hope that season 3 is where all the pieces finally fall into place.
     
  5. Red Warrior

    Red Warrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,244
    so Jose's bought 8 players in (i think it's 8?), lets have a look at them:

    Bailly: best CB we have, injury prone, missed a big chunk of this season (and last)
    Ibra: One good season out of him with goals but he slowed us right down play wise. Long term injury
    Pogba: Why purchase a player who failed at 4231 with france and excelled in a 433 at Juve and play him 4231?
    Lukaku: Why purchase a player who needs service and crosses and have LW and RW as players who like to cut in and dont cross?
    Lindelof: Why purchase a player who clearly isnt ready for the premiership?
    Miki: Already moved on due to poor performances
    Sanchez: Caused a headache with Martial
    Matic: 2 or 3 good months, 3 bad months

    Compared to Peps 17 players this is really poor I think. When you look at JM transfers and what they have turned out like no wonder we're not progressing at a rate the fans expect. Out of that list 3, Miki, Lindelof and Ibra have been non existent this season, Bailly injured more than he has played, Pogba in and out of good form, Matic just in bad form and were not getting the best from Lukaku and Pogba due to the way we play.
     
  6. Mr C

    Mr C Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,111
    I'm not sure that is fair

    Bailly, you can't predict injury
    Ibra did well for us in a season where we had little quality
    Pogba, you can't be a top class midfielder and be able to play one position, the player has got to grow and adapt
    Lukaku he has done alright goal wise, but I must say I don't think we should have bought him. But we needed someone
    Lindeloff a lot of players take time to adapt to the prem, Vidic and Evra both struggled
    Miki
    Sanchez, that's not a headache, I want competition for places, Martial needs to step up
    Matic, he needs a rest, he is the only player in our squad who can play that role, we need numbers in the middle come summer.

    It all depends on how you look at things. Jose has done well since joining. I doubt many other coaches would have done so much
     
  7. Red Warrior

    Red Warrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,244
    Your right, you cant predict injuries but my point is that we're all expecting to have progressed more by now as we have the likes of Pogba and Sanchez but when you look at the new players he has bought in and how they have done including injuries, it's a surprise we've done as well as we have.

    We really needed more players bringing in. 17 to City compared to 8 at Utd in the same time is quite a difference and we did have a lot of deadwood in the squad anyway we could have chopped and bought further new additions. Is that down to Woodward or Jose?
     
  8. Mr C

    Mr C Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,111
    You can't progress at that pace though, and we are improving. We have two trophies in the first season, second up from 5th. Yes we have some blips but we are not the finished side like City, they have been preparing this side for a while.

    I don't think we have much to complain about really. It will all come good
     
  9. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    5,503
    Bailly ~ Think you've got to put that one down to bad luck think all his injuries have come on international duty which is frustrating but a part of football.
    Mkhitaryan ~ at the time made a lot of sense but it hasn't worked out he struggled to adjust to the new environment and a bit like Di Maria I think we probably signed a player off the back of what will be the best season of their career. I'd question how much we scouted his personality profile as he had a history of taking time to settle in and I think this one was Mourinho taking a chance. However, his form in the 2nd half of last season was critical to our run on the Europa League he scored plenty of vital goals including the one in the final. Basically got our money back in the Sanchez trade so not really to bothered about this one.
    Zlatan ~ Don't think there's much debate on this one the bloke came in as a shot term solution as LVG left us with a squad with no experienced strikers he came in scored 28 goals before injury ended his Utd career and I stil think he may leave this month as I don't see him being back in the Utd squad this season. Scored a worldie and the winner in the league cup final plus some vital goals in Europe and the league. Yes his style created a problem with the playing style but we needed him last season going into teh season with only Rashford/Martial/Rooney would've been madness.
    Pogba ~ Easily our best outfield player in the last 2 seasons had a few dodgy games recently but this season not many centre mids are matching his goal and assist numbers and he's been playing out of position quite a bit.

    Lindelof ~ obviously signed with a long term plan and has improved as the seasons gone on still lots to do but you can see there is something there, I think he was signed as a partner for Bailly but he also allows us to play a back 3 something Mourinho tried at times last season.
    Matic ~ The guy has been worked into the ground because of injuries to Carrick, Fellaini & Pogba and because of the playing style he's often left on his own in midfield which is going to be a problem for any centre mid especially with the way the game is played now. If we had other options he'd probably be getting rested or dropped but we don't so he's having to soldier on.
    Lukaku ~ We signed the best striker available from our own league it was a gamble because he hadn't been tested at the top level and so far he's done ok, I think if we'd signed Perisic things might have been different as he's a fantastic supply line for a striker but I think Lukaku has struggled to adjust to the expectation a bit. Other big money strikers have suffered the same Lacazette & Morata had great starts then faded to early to write him off.
    Sanchez ~ We desperately needed a player like him a reliable senior player who almost guarantees goals.

    Given where we found ourselves after Moyes/LVG I didn't expect Mourinho to sling shot us back up the table our squad was and still is in places pretty poor and with players on good contracts getting them to leave is often tough.
     
  10. Red Warrior

    Red Warrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,244
    We are 2nd at the minute but the season is far from over...
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice