If not Mourinho, then who?

Sideshow Bob

Avatar & New Members Forum Mod
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
36,395
#1
There is a growing concern that Mourinho is the wrong manager to take the team forward.

I think Mourinho will still be the manager at the start of 2018/19, but if he was to leave, who would you like to succeed him? Are there a lack of alternatives?
 

boothstownred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
4,369
#2
There are a lack of alternatives. Poch is probably the best but he has never won anything. I don't know enough about the managers from abroad.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#3
Allegri would be my pick his sides I think have the right balance between attack and defence.
 

JSNFRMN

Moderator
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
21,538
Age
27
Location
Wales
#4
Rumour mill gone into overdrive since yesterday. Talk of player revolt and him being unhappy with Lukaku’s lack of effort to get fit for the game. All set up for Mourinho’s usual third season disaster.

Next man has got to be attacking and have a good track record of developing and promoting youth and probably someone who’s won trophies. Leonardo Jardim of Monaco ticks all those boxes. Seems Chelsea will get him though.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#5
It's a really good question actually because I'm very much of the opinion that Jose needs to go.

But who to succeed him? Now there's the question I don't really follow football enough these days to know who would be good.

I guess Poch is the immediate and obvious choice as I think he's ready for the next step.

Other than that I don't really care as long as it's a young manager with attacking football who wants to go back to club traditions. That's what I think we need and if that's at the expense of league position or trophies then personally I'm OK with that.
 

IDFD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
2,477
Age
31
#6
People saying Jose needs to go have lost their minds. Can I remind you of the 3 seasons before Jose.

7th
4th
5th out in the group stages and the FA Cup

With Jose

6th (Europa league and League Cup)
2nd!!!!!!!

We are moving back in the right direction for the first time in 5 years
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#7
I don't understand it either, I thought we did really well against a very defensive Chelsea side. The players decision making was bad, as well as execution.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#8
Taking league positions out of it for a minute. Anyone actually enjoy watching this team play? Also, in terms of league position the season we finished 5th under LVG was the closest we've come to a title challenge think we were top in November then blew up even under Jose we've been nowhere near the title which is what the club should be aiming for.

Yes results are improving that can't be denied but enjoyment levels are also part of watching football and you can buzz off a result but I don't think I've buzz off a performance since Newcastle at home in November when we took them apart.

Mourinho is not uniting the club he's dividing it, the fans are divided on the manager and ability of our players and the players seem divided in their support of the manager.

We are still a club that lacks a post Fergie identity and more worrying we seem to lack a plan.

I don't think he's going anywhere but he needs a huge summer in terms of creating a team that the fans will get behind because I don't know how much longer I can put up with watching a team that plays like this. He can blame players all he wants but he picks them and it's his job to motivate them so as the saying goes a bad workmen always blames his tools.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#9
this just smacks of the people who didn't want Jose moaning. How is he dividing the club. Some people wanted Ferguson out at one stage, you can't please everyone.

Jose wasn't my first choice, but he's done really well with what he has, which is a poor squad. Whether they are his purchases or not, the squad is not great. And everyone who says Pep would do better with them they are talking rubbish. Pep struggled last year and we are a good 2 transfer windows behind city.

Play like what, they attacked Chelsea, were all over them, the players execution and decision making was terrible. After say the 4th awful corner from Rashford maybe someone else should have taken one.
 

boothstownred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
4,369
#10
I think what we can all agree is this is a huge transfer window for Jose. I am pretty torn myself on how good a job he is doing. Certainly we are going in the right direction in terms of league places. However it doesn't seem a happy camp. He needs to buy some real quality in this window and fashion them into a team quickly. I wouldn't get rid of him but I think he is on relatively thin ice.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#11
I agree, he definitely has to improve the paying style this window, he's had his chance to assess what is working and what isn't, we need to improve on the eye and challenge for the title. Might be a season to early to win it.

I think some players have let him down this year, or just aren't good enough
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#12
Mourinho was always a divisive appointment but I supported it at the time we were desperate and it was clear the club needed a big personality to stop the rot that had set in under LVG and to be honest things looked really positive up until October this year when he started playing his games to sort out a new contract which he always does. That seemed to be his number 1 focus rather than the team and the way he's publically gone after players I don't think is the right way for a Utd manager to behave. Fergie was no saint but very rarely did he single out a player in public for criticism like Mourinho does.

Mourinho is marmite you either love him or hate him I never particularly liked him but I recognised his ability as a manager but so far I'm not seeing that at Utd the team is so poorly organised from a defensive point of view and going forward they don't have a clue how to score. The signings have been expensive and questionable and it's not his fault but he hasn't been able to move out the players he doesn't want because of their contracts.

The reason I say the club is divided is because the fans aren't 100% behind the manager I think it would be kind to say the Mourinho In/Out is 50/50 if anything the last 6 months has shifted the opinion on the manager more towards out than in. The way he's going after players publically isn't working he's either trying to force the to leave so he can replace them or the methods he used to use no longer work I see a divided dressing room.

You can tell when a club is going places because manager/players/fans are all in harmony just look at City/Liverpool/Spurs Utd are in turmoil in my opinion and while it's not Mourinho's fault for the entire period for 5 years we've been a very tough team to watch every week and he has got to resolve that this summer. The teams needs a freshening up as these players just aren't good enough to win league titles they've shown that over 5 seasons under 3 managers now but given our track record recently on signings I'm not sure we will pull it off this summer.

The way it is right now I don't see Mourinho finishing next season as manager unless he changes the way he behaves he has got to get his players and the fans behind him otherwise it'll end up with him being sacked.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#13
I get what you say about the feel of spurs, Liverpool and City. But this could be put right at the feet of the football writers. They love having a go a Jose. the whole spin on his only Lukaku comments is proof of this.

They take his words, cut bits out, say something and people think that is what is going on.

I don't see any unhappy players at the club, just under performing ones. That could be the manager, but he has done well at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid. I think some of these players don't have the team ethic or the club at their heart.

The press love Poch, Klopp and Pep. Lets take the CL final out the equation as they may not win. Can you imagine the grief Jose would have got being at the club that long with no trophies, same as Poch.

Ok he might bring it on himself, but the fans need to see beyond all the bad press, yes the style hasn't bee great since Christmas, but we started the season well, something changed his approach. But the results have changed and any other year we would be champions.
 

Edgy1968

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Messages
929
Age
37
#14
People are saying that he is doing well with the squad that he has, that it's not his team etc., don't forget lads he has gone out and spent 70m on two CB's neither of who played on Saturday, his 95m CM runs around like he has no idea what he is supposed to be doing, Jose looks clueless in how to get the best out of Pogba, Matic has done well but is a very static, sideways passing CM, Sanchez just looks horrendous, so wasteful in possession and him and Pogba just seem to get in each others way constantly.

Lukaku and maybe Matic are the only signings who have had any impact, that's two from 6, not great!
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#15
CB's are difficult to get right for the prem, city, liverpool have both struggled there.
 

Edgy1968

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Messages
929
Age
37
#16
Bailly is absolutely class, but shock horror another fallout and that cost us big time on Saturday as Jones who imo should not have been on the pitch, made the mistake.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#17
I wouldn't say Bailly was class to be honest, and you have chosen to pick the version in the press that is negative on Jose.

There is another story that Bailly claimed illness for a game on a Sunday then turned up for training on the Monday fit.

I don't blame Jose for picking players he can rely on.

Lukaku on Saturday was out of order, if you're fit enough to come on you're fit enough to start. Belgium aren't going to win the world cup and we pay his wages.

Too many wannbe's at the club, and not enough players willing to give their all. This is the poor attitude that seems to run through the club and what Jose and Neville allayed to.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#18
I like Bailly but I don't think he's looked class since he's been with us he is still very rash and makes mistakes and fitness has been a massive problem but I do agree it's been odd that in the final few weeks of the season he's not been playing. It seems like he's got himself in the bad books with the manager somehow either because he's taking to long to get back to full fitness or maybe he's after a move or a new contract.

Despite having a bad season in some people's opinion Pogba is still by far our most creative player despite often being shackled with more defensive responsibility than he is used to and lets just be honest when it comes to defending he isn't very good and on Saturday he had to play deeper with Matic as Herrera was basically playing as a centre back. Mourinho restricted our most creative player to try and stop Chelsea's most creative player.

As for the media agenda against the manager he has people who defend him when he's in the wrong and part of the reason that agenda against him exists is because over the years he's made himself a lot of enemies by the way he behaves and the things he's said. Also, that is just modern media they'll twist things but he's a clever guy he picks his words carefully so when he lets something out it's because he wants it to be out, every time we lose it's a players fault.
 

Edgy1968

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Messages
929
Age
37
#19
Absolute level above any other CB we have IMO, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Lindelof are not even close to Bailly, bit rash yeah but he dominates and when fit has been by far and away our stand out CB
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#20
I'd say he's almost the hybrid of them all he's got Rojo's aggression, Lindelof ability on the ball, Smallings one vs one tackling but sadly he's got Phil Jones injury record and clumsiness.

I think in terms of a consistent run of good games the best under Mourinho was Rojo before his knee injury last season he had a really solid run at CB but he's not been the same since.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#21
Ultimately this argument / debate comes down to this...

As a fan do you want to win or enjoy watching your team? Obviously you can have both but at this point I think that's the split in fans.

I sit on the side where I want to be entertained. Otherwise actually you know what? I'd rather just keep an eye on the score and find out the result at the end. I don't need to watch something that I pretty much know is going to be dull.

I'm sure in in the minority but I'd take fourth or fifth, a decent cup run and entertainment over second and an FA cup final appearance then if that ended in a win.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#22
As an older fan, so was used to us not really winning much, apart from Sexton we were really good to watch.

So I will always take style over results. But I do believe you have to give a manager a chance. We know by the beginning of last season we can play nice football. Something changed and I was willing to sit the season out and wait for next season to see what happens.

Football has moved on so much from when I was a child, and it is a results based business now, the clubs don't care about fans, the FA cup final had no atmosphere as it is too corporate, the whole game is about money. So they owners don't care about style, they can't afford to let a manager ride out a bad spot, or take a risk on young managers. It's a game so far removed from when I was child it's like they are two different games.

After Fergie left the next two appointments were so awful we needed and probably still need manager who can win things, or before you know it we are Liverpool after their great managers left.

We can't keep sacking managers or you never get out of the rebuilding process.

I can't really be bothered much anymore, I am nowhere near attached to the club like I used to be. Even 8 years ago when I left the UK, I had started drifting to watching the local non league side play. And there was no style there, but there was excitement, energy, you could tell it meant something to the players.

I get way more excitement watching my girls play basketball.

I would actually say I enjoy a lot more sports than football these days, but utd are in the blood, so I keep an eye in.

So yes, style over winning every time, but unfortunately that game has gone. No trophies, no CL = no sponsors, = no players. No one remembers how awful we were in the CL against Munich, just the last 5 mins.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#23
I think when you're a club the size of Utd you are entitled to expect both and right now for 5 years we've done neither yes a few domestic cups can cover up the cracks but the reality is the team has bee nowhere near a league title in 5 years, nowhere in terms of the European Cup in same period and despite spending fortunes is as limp in attack as we've ever looked.

Fans accept sometimes we have to respect the opposition and be cautious that is fine but we are playing cautious slow football every week and it won't be long before fans give up with it.

You can keep sacking managers because no 1 man should be running the entire ship it's not sustainable as there will not be another Ferguson ever again the club need to sort it out and get more people who understand football making decisions about who the club are employing because right now they basically hand it over to Mourinho and hope for the best.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#24
What I want to know is... Why did we take such a different approach when sacking Moyes and then LVG. Like why not establish a style and stick to it. If you keep changing managers and styles you need to give time for adjustments and new signings. And each time those adjustments etc have been pretty severe.

We want exciting football so bring us a guy who can do that and give him time and money to build. And get someone who promotes youth. Of course in a results driven business this is a pipe dream but I wish we would.

Jose hasn't been a disaster. Two trophies in his first year and a cup final with improved league position in his second is progress. But he's simply not the man for this club. Never really was and never will be.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#26
The problem is managers don't get time. Look at moyes. Given a 6 year contract but sacked before the end of the season.
I disagree. Moyes was a disaster who had to be sacked before things got worse. Lvg and Jose were given a lot of money and a couple of years .
 

boothstownred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
4,369
#27
I am not sure how you can disagree I as it was just a statement of fact. Moyes was a disaster. From day one I was against his appointment and said so repeatedly. All I am saying is managers aren't given time to build a team, certainly at our level.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,778
#28
What I want to know is... Why did we take such a different approach when sacking Moyes and then LVG. Like why not establish a style and stick to it. If you keep changing managers and styles you need to give time for adjustments and new signings. And each time those adjustments etc have been pretty severe.

We want exciting football so bring us a guy who can do that and give him time and money to build. And get someone who promotes youth. Of course in a results driven business this is a pipe dream but I wish we would.

Jose hasn't been a disaster. Two trophies in his first year and a cup final with improved league position in his second is progress. But he's simply not the man for this club. Never really was and never will be.
easier said than done really.

And really, by your own comments, Jose should be given the time to get the team how he wants, he said 3 years so let him have those 3 years. You never know we might blitz it next season
 

IDFD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
2,477
Age
31
#29
Yeah Moyes undoubtedly had to go. Should never have got the job in the first place his track record since has proven that.

His honours as a manager. League 1 title. Charity Shield. It was a shocking appointment.

'United were ninth in the table after 15 games, 13 points behind leaders Arsenal.'

'Moyes had won five points from a possible 24 against Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester City, and Arsenal (the top four at the time of sacking)'. Mourinho's tenure really can't be compared to his.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
2,115
Age
30
#30
Would anyone be all for someone like Carrick or McKenna getting the job after Jose goes? People who know the ins and out of the club and are well aware of the traditions of attacking football. Would be a massive shout but I remember the clamour for Giggs to be given the job after Moyes went. I would be in two minds about it, on the one hand would be a super risk because of the inexperience but then it could well be a master stroke and give a young guy chance to start a new dynasty?

As for is Jose left tomorrow, I would probably say Luis Enrique or Pochettino. I know there have been some debates on here about Poch and the fact he hasn’t won anything yet but I do think he would be a very good appointment. And well Enrique is still on sabbatical but he impressed at Barca so would be a good shout.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#31
easier said than done really.

And really, by your own comments, Jose should be given the time to get the team how he wants, he said 3 years so let him have those 3 years. You never know we might blitz it next season
Whether he blitzes it or not the style of football is not going to drastically improve. And at this point to be honest personally? I'd rather we played good football and didn't win the league.
 

Red Warrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
1,692
Age
46
#32
I could sit here and write out 20 BIG issues that need to be sorted/that Jose has created in the last 6 months. In fact I wrote a post with 21 issues on it about 6 months ago and I'd bet my bottom dollar that all those problems still exist and I could add another 9 to make it a good round 30 problems.

We may have been second but how the hell we actually pulled it off I really don't know. Other teams have failed when we have to help us no end.

If a new manager came in now he'd have the same rebuilding job to do as the current manager and he's been here 2 bloody years!!!
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#33
If a new manager came in now he'd have the same rebuilding job to do as the current manager and he's been here 2 bloody years!!!
Thing is I think it's actually worse than that... Because the longer we leave Jose in charge the more work there is to do to get an attractive style back within the club.

Honestly I've thought a fair bit about this the last few days and I can now say... I want him out.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,758
#34
I think if a new manager came in we wouldn't have to start again if he had a similar belief in the way the game was played as Mourinho but maybe was a little bit softer to the players and didn't try and fight against everyone.

The issue is we the fans don't really want us to play the way we are playing at the moment so replacing like for like almost makes no sense so assuming it's going to take another 5-10 players to get this squad right do we let Mourinho pick those players or pull the plug now and let someone else take over?

This squad don't really seem suited to playing the Mourinho way so do you let him change it for one that does?

I can't be bothered with the guy anymore but we've backed ourselves into a corner by giving him a new contract and we haven't got a way of replacing him so we're stuck with him for at least 1 more season.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
4,470
Age
29
#35
This squad don't really seem suited to playing the Mourinho way so do you let him change it for one that does?
For me no you don't let him continue to shape the squad to his liking because it's further away from what we want in terms of style. And he's never a long term answer anyway so I don't think we can let him continue to shape the squad his way.
 
Top