How long do we give Solskjaer?

RichH2016

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Unfortunately, I think there is a, larger than we'd like to admit, portion of our support (especially online) that were/are glory hunters who started supporting United for the trophies. They never really embraced the club or what made United unique, they just lived vicariously through the success and got to act like big-time Charlies online whenever we did well.
There may be fans like that yes. Fans want success and when a club has been as successful as United that almost becomes an expectation. It was the same with Liverpool fans for all those years I'm sure.

I'm not a United fan. I used to be, I used to watch every game and then my interest waned and I stopped watching most of their games. I actually have to say in Oles defense this team is a lot more fun to watch and so I do watch more of their games these days.

That doesn't change my opinion that I think Ole isn't going to win silverware with United. He's done a really good job and his team is better to watch than recent years (there are still games where its a little dour). So it all comes down to what a fan wants. Do they want success or do they want entertainment. Ultimately I guess the best would be to have both.

If they want entertainment then managers like Conte are absolutely not going to be the answer. But Conte probably would win a major trophy.
 

RichH2016

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Mourinho completed the set, won trophies, and nearly destroyed this football club. I'll take my chances with Ole.
And that's absolutely fine bud. If you want, for the most part, better football that's more entertaining but no trophies then I think Ole is the right man.
 

Sapper

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There may be fans like that yes. Fans want success and when a club has been as successful as United that almost becomes an expectation. It was the same with Liverpool fans for all those years I'm sure.

I'm not a United fan. I used to be, I used to watch every game and then my interest waned and I stopped watching most of their games. I actually have to say in Oles defense this team is a lot more fun to watch and so I do watch more of their games these days.

That doesn't change my opinion that I think Ole isn't going to win silverware with United. He's done a really good job and his team is better to watch than recent years (there are still games where its a little dour). So it all comes down to what a fan wants. Do they want success or do they want entertainment. Ultimately I guess the best would be to have both.

If they want entertainment then managers like Conte are absolutely not going to be the answer. But Conte probably would win a major trophy.
Question for you mate your not a United fan but are a moderator on a United Forum

Not having a dig but just curious as to why ?
 

RichH2016

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Question for you mate your not a United fan but are a moderator on a United Forum

Not having a dig but just curious as to why ?
I used to be a United fan. Over the years I just started to get bored of football in general and with it my passion for United faded. At one point I did put forwards that I'd step down as a mod but this was never actioned.

Also I don't think you have to be a United fan to be a mod really. You just have to be fair to the other members and ensure some form of order on the forum.
 

Sapper

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I used to be a United fan. Over the years I just started to get bored of football in general and with it my passion for United faded. At one point I did put forwards that I'd step down as a mod but this was never actioned.

Also I don't think you have to be a United fan to be a mod really. You just have to be fair to the other members and ensure some form of order on the forum.
Fair enough mate I get that
 

jsp

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Deserves some praise today his sub won us the game and his faith in Lingard was repaid.
 

RichH2016

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Deserves some praise today his sub won us the game and his faith in Lingard was repaid.
Yeah he deserves some praise for that. And he brought Matic on who I believe was involved in the build up with his ability to pick a pass? So he deserves credit for that.

It wasn't a very impressive performance today but I'm not sure how much of that we can attribute to Ole. Some of it for sure but the players need to do more. And they sure created the chances.
 

jsp

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Yeah he deserves some praise for that. And he brought Matic on who I believe was involved in the build up with his ability to pick a pass? So he deserves credit for that.

It wasn't a very impressive performance today but I'm not sure how much of that we can attribute to Ole. Some of it for sure but the players need to do more. And they sure created the chances.

I thought we played well today went away to one of the best teams in the league and barely gave them a sniff, created some good chances and if the ref wasn’t an idiot we’d have been awarded a few pens.
 

Sapper

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Spot on with the subs today Ole most teams will have a hard time at West Ham this season great win

Desperately need a quality DM though Fred was woeful again
 

Macariman

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And that's absolutely fine bud. If you want, for the most part, better football that's more entertaining but no trophies then I think Ole is the right man.
More entertaining under OGS?
We've become a team that have a great counter attacking reputation. For year upon year opponents relied upon counter attacking us coz we spent most of the game in their final third.
 

IDFD

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We had a great counter attacking reputation under Fergie too.

If you don't think this team are more exciting to watch than Conte, Mourinho and LVG sides I'm not sure you're even watching the games.
 

Macariman

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We had a great counter attacking reputation under Fergie too.

If you don't think this team are more exciting to watch than Conte, Mourinho and LVG sides I'm not sure you're even watching the games.
Counter attacking under Fergie?
Not sure u are aware of his philosophy since he took his 1st managerial position with East Stirling. Attack is the best form of !
 

IDFD

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Rooney wanted to dispel the myth that the current United side play in a boring, defensive way compared to the 'all out attack' teams that Ferguson managed.

"People talk about our team – especially in relation to Manchester United now – and say it was attack, attack, attack. But we actually weren't," he said.

“It wasn't all 'let's just go out and attack' it was a bit more calculated against certain opponents which brought the best out of myself.

“We had the team built to hit teams on the break and we were devastating at it.”

Rooney's revelation brings back memories of the United side of the late 00s, featuring Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo combining at their best.


Under Fergie we were an excellent counter attacking side. It doesn't make you a defensive team because you can be devastating on the counter.
 

Macariman

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Rooney wanted to dispel the myth that the current United side play in a boring, defensive way compared to the 'all out attack' teams that Ferguson managed.

"People talk about our team – especially in relation to Manchester United now – and say it was attack, attack, attack. But we actually weren't," he said.

“It wasn't all 'let's just go out and attack' it was a bit more calculated against certain opponents which brought the best out of myself.

“We had the team built to hit teams on the break and we were devastating at it.”

Rooney's revelation brings back memories of the United side of the late 00s, featuring Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo combining at their best.

Not gonna argue with Rooney
 

Mr C

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yeah,we scored loads on the break under Fergie, countless goals scored from our box to goal.

Kanchelskis was excellent at this
 

Macariman

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We had a great counter attacking reputation under Fergie too.

If you don't think this team are more exciting to watch than Conte, Mourinho and LVG sides I'm not sure you're even watching the games.
Mate, I played in the English top flight for 2 seasons. Played against Utd 4 times, when they were under big Ron. Probably the toughest games I was involved in coz we were under a constant barrage. So much so that even when the ball went out for a throw in,my teammates and I all took a collective breath to prepare ourselves for what we knew was coming next.
Counter attacking was just not their belief!
 

IDFD

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That's nice. I couldn't possible comment about teams from the 80's being born in '87. But it doesn't change my argument that we had a reputation for being a great counter attacking side under Ferguson.
 

jsp

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Utd never really looked to setup to counter attack opponents under Fergie it was only really used in Europe where we came up against teams that Fergie knew we couldn't keep the ball against. Domestically he'd often use it against Wenger's Arsenal to devestating effect.

I don't think it was ever the philosophy of the club but it was a very useful weapon to have and lets be honest most top sides are devestating on the counter because they have extremely talented footballers who given space can be almost unstoppable.

Utd sides under Fergie wanted to dominate the possession of the ball in the vast majority of games and they were good at it.

The best Fergie side in my opinion the 2008 side were the best no matter what you threw at them they could handle it. The only style that he couldn't really work out a way of playing against was Pep's Barca side and lets be honest no one worked out how to stop them.
 

IDFD

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In the same fashion I wouldn't say Ole sets up to sit deep and hit teams on the counter. Just when the situations arises this team happens to have players that are very good at it.
 

Mr C

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counter attack was definitey a tactic of Fergie. You don't have all those fast wingers that he was famous for to tap the ball around. It was all about turning defence into attack as fast as possible, not just in Europe.

Of course you can't use that tactic against all teams, which is where this side has fallen down in the past.
 

jsp

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The fast players out wide were also there to go one vs one with the opponents full back and get crosses in for the likes of Hughes or Cantona. However, in the early 90's you didn't really get teams that parked buses most teams played 4-4-2 and it was a lot of just man vs man stuff.

Counter attack is a weapon every team needs to have in it's locker it's a hugely important part of the game it's why Guardiola's teams developed tactics to stop it which is basically the high press and then a foul to stop teams doing it to them.

Ole's team isn't setup to sit deep but it's fair to say the creating chances at 0-0 is still a bit of a work in progress and it's not always clear what the plan is to create chances. He clearly wants us to build from the keeper through defence and midfield very rarely do Utd kick long from a goal kick but it's still not quite clicked in that final third where it still feels like the players are given a lot of freedom to come up with their own plans to score goals.

Certainly away from home we've got to get better at getting that first goal which forces the opponent to come out leaving space for counter attack.
 

Mr C

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players are given a lot of freedom to come up with their own plans to score goals
That is a very Pep style tactic, Henry said at Barca they had strict rules to obey up until the final 3rd, then it was do what you want.
 

jsp

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That is a very Pep style tactic, Henry said at Barca they had strict rules to obey up until the final 3rd, then it was do what you want.

Not sure that is what Henry said the quotes I've seen from him are all about your starting position he got a lot of criticism from Pep for coming off the wing to early he wanted him to stay as wide as possible for as long as possible before coming in. He expects his players to make certain runs from certain positions when play builds up.

You obviously need a lot of free thinking in the final third as you have to adapt to what your opponent is doing to stop you. If they've blocked the move you originally wanted to make you have to quickly adapt to find a second one.
 

Mr C

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I saw the interview, that's exactly what he said. Along with the staying wide.

although it was about 5 years ago, mind could be playing tricks :oops:
 

Macariman

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That's nice. I couldn't possible comment about teams from the 80's being born in '87. But it doesn't change my argument that we had a reputation for being a great counter attacking side under Ferguson.
When I left playing in England to move up North, Utd signed my cousin, an established Internationalist. He was with MUFC for 6 yrs. About 2 seasons with big Ron as boss and Fergie the other 4. His opinion on change of management was basically that they were almost identical on gameplans, strategies, training ground demands, structural formats and commitment required to represent the biggest club in world football. There was 1big difference that the players found, and took slight umbrage about, was Fergie curtailed their social time allowances a little.
In the same fashion I wouldn't say Ole sets up to sit deep and hit teams on the counter. Just when the situations arises this team happens to have players that are very good at it.
Then why does he persist with 2 deep lying midfielders who basically don't want to, aren't capable of or maybe just instructed to not carry the ball any further than a 5m advance?
 

IDFD

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He doesn't actually play and defensive midfielders though. Neither Fred or McT are specialist defensive midfielders which leaves us the problem of neither can play the role good enough to allow us to play a more advanced CM alongside them. This is and has been an obvious problem for a while as a professional footballer I'd assume you can see that and are aware a manager has to take the players he's got at his disposal in to account.

As I showed above Rooney believed Fergie utilised being a great counter attacking team. That's all I stated. Bringing up Big Ron or your cousin had no change on my statement that Ferguson was known for having great counter attacking sides.
 

jsp

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I saw the interview, that's exactly what he said. Along with the staying wide.

although it was about 5 years ago, mind could be playing tricks :oops:

It was on Sky from memory while he was a pundit for them probably around the time Pep joined City I've heard him talk about it a few times.

He said he was basically subbed off quite a bit in that first season because he wasn't doing exactly what he was told and he had to sit through meetings with Guardiola to show him what he was doing wrong and why it was creating a problem for the team.

It's quite obvious to me Ole doesn't want to stand on the sideline telling his players exactly where they need to be he trusts them to solve problems themselves obviously within a system/structure that he sets out.

Most managers these days seem to be standing on the sidelines constantly adjusting the teams shape and play a much more hands on role.
 

Macariman

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counter attack was definitey a tactic of Fergie. You don't have all those fast wingers that he was famous for to tap the ball around. It was all about turning defence into attack as fast as possible, not just in Europe.

Of course you can't use that tactic against all teams, which is where this side has fallen down in the past.
What, did Fergie just have wingers as top priority and pick others who could fill the jersey?
He always had a solid back 4, then let the rest of the lads take care of the opposition, usually in devastating fashion!
Let me explain what counter attacking football means, coz u obviously have no perception what it entails. Hold back, let the opposition bring the game to you and try to grab an opportunity when it arises. But, no doubt with your far superior knowledge, expertise and experience of playing professional football, you'll disagree. Which I'll find quite, I was gonna say commendable, but I think deplorable is more appropriate!
 

jsp

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People get their knickers in a twist over the two holding players way to often for me.

To me it's a quality issue not a system issue Utd need centre mids who are better on the ball it's that simple we need players that can take it under pressure and not give away possession and also have a quality range of passes to be able to hit short of long passes without turning over possession.

Where it is weak is when you play a quality team who are playing 3 in midfield you can struggle to get on the ball that is when you need that number 10 player to be able to drop back in.

I think centre mids now are a bit more defensive because full backs are so attacking in the modern game and wingers aren't expected to track back as much.
 

Mr C

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@Mac
We can all say we used to do something. Whether it's credible or not is another matter, and using the football knowledge you display on this board, I'd say you've never been to a match, let alone played.

I suggest we go back to ignoring/blocking each other.
 

IDFD

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What, did Fergie just have wingers as top priority and pick others who could fill the jersey?
He always had a solid back 4, then let the rest of the lads take care of the opposition, usually in devastating fashion!
Let me explain what counter attacking football means, coz u obviously have no perception what it entails. Hold back, let the opposition bring the game to you and try to grab an opportunity when it arises. But, no doubt with your far superior knowledge, expertise and experience of playing professional football, you'll disagree. Which I'll find quite, I was gonna say commendable, but I think deplorable is more appropriate!

Yeah Fergie never played Carrick and Hargreaves together. Or Carrick and Fletcher. Never used Park in a containing role. It's like you only remember him from the 90's and have completely forgot he moved to a 4-3-3 and then 4-2-3-1. Even Scholes finished his career as a deeper lying midfielder than Fred and McT have as starting points.
 

Macariman

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He doesn't actually play and defensive midfielders though. Neither Fred or McT are specialist defensive midfielders which leaves us the problem of neither can play the role good enough to allow us to play a more advanced CM alongside them. This is and has been an obvious problem for a while as a professional footballer I'd assume you can see that and are aware a manager has to take the players he's got at his disposal in to account.

As I showed above Rooney believed Fergie utilised being a great counter attacking team. That's all I stated. Bringing up Big Ron or your cousin had no change on my statement that Ferguson was known for having great counter attacking sides.
As I also said, I would never argue against WR, wouldn't dream of it. But when a manager sets his structure as a back 4 with a definite 2 DMs in front who are nowhere near the class required, he's leaving gap in the middle 3rd of the pitch to be battled for, by players who are chosen for their attacking capabilities. Pogba is the prime example
The fast players out wide were also there to go one vs one with the opponents full back and get crosses in for the likes of Hughes or Cantona. However, in the early 90's you didn't really get teams that parked buses most teams played 4-4-2 and it was a lot of just man vs man stuff.

Counter attack is a weapon every team needs to have in it's locker it's a hugely important part of the game it's why Guardiola's teams developed tactics to stop it which is basically the high press and then a foul to stop teams doing it to them.

Ole's team isn't setup to sit deep but it's fair to say the creating chances at 0-0 is still a bit of a work in progress and it's not always clear what the plan is to create chances. He clearly wants us to build from the keeper through defence and midfield very rarely do Utd kick long from a goal kick but it's still not quite clicked in that final third where it still feels like the players are given a lot of freedom to come up with their own plans to score goals.

Certainly away from home we've got to get better at getting that first goal which forces the opponent to come out leaving space for counter attack.
 

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