How long do we give Solskjaer?

boothstownred

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I don't think it will be only British players. I think it's more the type of player. I suspect they will be targeting primarily you get, hungrier players with either years of service ahead of them or decent sell on value.
 

SuperRash

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Tactics absolutely spot on yesterday and team selection was good with Pereira at number 10 when it would have been easy to play Mata for his experience.
 

TheChosenJuan

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Tactics absolutely spot on yesterday and team selection was good with Pereira at number 10 when it would have been easy to play Mata for his experience.
Set up wise, yes, but game management is poor. There is a reason why his last experience in the PL ended in relegation and Manchester United is a big club, not a creche. Before you point out Pep and Zidane, they had a straight transition and ste legends on a higher tier than Ole (leaders).
Even Lampard is a comparison too far as he's Chelsea's greatest goalscorer and captained them to a Champions League victory.
 

jsp

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Set up wise, yes, but game management is poor. There is a reason why his last experience in the PL ended in relegation and Manchester United is a big club, not a creche. Before you point out Pep and Zidane, they had a straight transition and ste legends on a higher tier than Ole (leaders).
Even Lampard is a comparison too far as he's Chelsea's greatest goalscorer and captained them to a Champions League victory.
His issue yesterday was the game plan was good and generally we start games very well at the moment but when the opponent counters Ole either doesn't react or can't react because he doesn't have what he needs on the bench to stop what the opponent is doing or more worrying he doesn't see what's happening quickly enough to stop it.

Midfield is a major headache yesterday Liverpool really started to control that area and when they went to 4-4-2 they pinned our full backs into defensive positions and Utd quickly became 5-4-1 when James also dropped, Klopp then quickly changed out of that system but the damage was done as the later the game went the more set in Utd would be and suddenly his full backs who are key were getting right up the pitch because Liverpool were always 2 vs 1 at the back with only Rashford up top. Once they had us pushed back it was cross after cross after cross what Utd really needed at that point was fresh strikers who could hold on to that ball when it came out and allow us to push out even get that vital second goal.

We made 1 mistake and against a team like this Liverpool one that's enough bang 1-1 that's what you're up against when you play them they keep coming wave after waves of attack until you eventually crack which is what happened yesterday. This is what Utd don't really have we don't sustain that pressure when we are chasing goals we don't force the opposition to break top sides score late goals because mentally they break you down and eventually someone in a moment of panic makes an error which you punish.

I think had he had more options Ole would have liked to have freshened up his midfield and probably changed one of the attackers to allow us to get out someone who can hold the ball a bit better up top. Van Dijk really started to bully Rashford/James second half as Liverpool realised the ref was prepared to let the game be physical.

As for comparing him to those guys it's been a long time since Ole retired he had a way different route into football first as the U23 coach then back in Norway etc etc he's been managing for about 10 years before coming to Utd.

Pep & Zidane took over squads full of world class talent both of these teams had recently won European cups for gods sake yes they freshened things up a bit but they didn't have to complete a full rebuild. Lampard at Chelsea not quite the same but still took over a squad with plenty of top players in their prime plus he had the benefit of working with 2 of the young players last season at Derby and his assistant worked with all these kids in the academy.

The job Ole has had to take on is a complete root and branch rebuild. Everything about the club had to change do I think he's the right man to do that probably not but I don't think you can compare the job he's taken on to what anyone else has done. The only men who've faced this sort of task are LVG & Mourinho and it broke both of them.

Utd should have the best of everything players, coaches, manager, directors, scouts, physio's, facilities etc which is sort of why I can't fully get behind Ole because I don't think he's one of the best managers in the world.
 

TheChosenJuan

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His issue yesterday was the game plan was good and generally we start games very well at the moment but when the opponent counters Ole either doesn't react or can't react because he doesn't have what he needs on the bench to stop what the opponent is doing or more worrying he doesn't see what's happening quickly enough to stop it.

Midfield is a major headache yesterday Liverpool really started to control that area and when they went to 4-4-2 they pinned our full backs into defensive positions and Utd quickly became 5-4-1 when James also dropped, Klopp then quickly changed out of that system but the damage was done as the later the game went the more set in Utd would be and suddenly his full backs who are key were getting right up the pitch because Liverpool were always 2 vs 1 at the back with only Rashford up top. Once they had us pushed back it was cross after cross after cross what Utd really needed at that point was fresh strikers who could hold on to that ball when it came out and allow us to push out even get that vital second goal.

We made 1 mistake and against a team like this Liverpool one that's enough bang 1-1 that's what you're up against when you play them they keep coming wave after waves of attack until you eventually crack which is what happened yesterday. This is what Utd don't really have we don't sustain that pressure when we are chasing goals we don't force the opposition to break top sides score late goals because mentally they break you down and eventually someone in a moment of panic makes an error which you punish.

I think had he had more options Ole would have liked to have freshened up his midfield and probably changed one of the attackers to allow us to get out someone who can hold the ball a bit better up top. Van Dijk really started to bully Rashford/James second half as Liverpool realised the ref was prepared to let the game be physical.

As for comparing him to those guys it's been a long time since Ole retired he had a way different route into football first as the U23 coach then back in Norway etc etc he's been managing for about 10 years before coming to Utd.

Pep & Zidane took over squads full of world class talent both of these teams had recently won European cups for gods sake yes they freshened things up a bit but they didn't have to complete a full rebuild. Lampard at Chelsea not quite the same but still took over a squad with plenty of top players in their prime plus he had the benefit of working with 2 of the young players last season at Derby and his assistant worked with all these kids in the academy.

The job Ole has had to take on is a complete root and branch rebuild. Everything about the club had to change do I think he's the right man to do that probably not but I don't think you can compare the job he's taken on to what anyone else has done. The only men who've faced this sort of task are LVG & Mourinho and it broke both of them.

Utd should have the best of everything players, coaches, manager, directors, scouts, physio's, facilities etc which is sort of why I can't fully get behind Ole because I don't think he's one of the best managers in the world.
Allegri is needed asap. Fun fact: he was the last manager to defeat Jurgen Klopp in a 2 legged cup tie
 

jsp

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Allegri is needed asap. Fun fact: he was the last manager to defeat Jurgen Klopp in a 2 legged cup tie
That's just ripping it up and starting again though.

Allegri is a fine manager but for me he's a guy who comes into a something that's well run makes a few minor adjustments and gets it working properly I'm not sure he's a guy who can rebuild a broken team like Klopp has done at Liverpool.

Utd have put a lot of faith in Ole doing that job bearing in mind that he's never done it before maybe they feel that Ole is the only manager who can tap into Sir Alex and utilise him as a resource in this process.

Results have to improve we are 2 points off relegation and our next 2 league games are away from home and we've not won away in the league in months so eventually the results might be the end of him we're 9 games in now this is getting a very serious concern that can't just be ignored.
 

SuperRash

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Allegri is needed asap. Fun fact: he was the last manager to defeat Jurgen Klopp in a 2 legged cup tie
Is he? How do we know Allegri will do well in this country? The Italian game is a lot different to ours, a certain type of coaching may succeed there but not here. Also he speaks very little English which doesn’t help and he has admitted that himself in an interview. I don’t think he’s some messiah that will come and instantly improve us.

I think the board will stick with Ole for the entire season, obviously if there is no improvement with our full choice 11 out week in week out then yeah maybe it’s time to bring down the hammer but I fully expect Ole to be here all season.
 

IDFD

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I don’t think you can call him tactically inept. He’s got it spot on against the big sides we’ve played. We’ve played 3 top 4 teams. Won 1 and 2 draws.
 

jsp

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I think the tactical questions over Ole are really how his teams fail to build on leads we've gone 1-0 up 5 times this season and been pegged back to 1-1 in 4 of those games in the league so that's 8 points lost from winning positions and in all those games it was 1-0 at half time. Generally in all these games up until we've gone 1-0 up we've played pretty well then fail to build on that. Now in a few of these games the opposition manager has made tactical changes which we've struggled to adapt to at this level opposition managers will adapt their tactics to what you are doing to hurt them and stop it we don't then change again to expose another weakness.

Fundamentally we have a problem scoring more than 1 goal in a game this was also a problem last season and we haven't really made ourselves more creative or more clinical since he came in. He hasn't addressed the lack of creativity on an individual or collective basis I don't think the system we've played in most games suits our players but I'm prepared to give it a bit more time as he's been without 2 or 3 key players in Shaw, Pogba and Martial.
 

IDFD

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One thing I noticed on Sunday was our set piece record. 0 goals from set pieces not including Pens since the start of March. The next lowest played team (I assume not including the promoted sides. I can’t remember) was on 3.
 

jsp

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One thing I noticed on Sunday was our set piece record. 0 goals from set pieces not including Pens since the start of March. The next lowest played team (I assume not including the promoted sides. I can’t remember) was on 3.
Yeah they are horrendous most of our set piece are some clipped lofty ball aimed at harry Maguire and on free kicks Maguire is getting caught offside a lot it highlights that the team is badly drilled on set pieces. It's almost like they've accepted that they know they don't have anyone who can actually deliver a good ball so don't bother wasting time practising it.

It's an easy win that I don't think we are making the most of set piece goals are easy goals practise your moves and be a bit creative and you'll get easy goals.

You do wonder what we do work on in training.
 

TheChosenJuan

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I don’t think you can call him tactically inept. He’s got it spot on against the big sides we’ve played. We’ve played 3 top 4 teams. Won 1 and 2 draws.
In Mourinho's last full season, he won all 3 of the corresponding fixtures at home.
 

TheChosenJuan

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That's just ripping it up and starting again though.

Allegri is a fine manager but for me he's a guy who comes into a something that's well run makes a few minor adjustments and gets it working properly I'm not sure he's a guy who can rebuild a broken team like Klopp has done at Liverpool.

Utd have put a lot of faith in Ole doing that job bearing in mind that he's never done it before maybe they feel that Ole is the only manager who can tap into Sir Alex and utilise him as a resource in this process.

Results have to improve we are 2 points off relegation and our next 2 league games are away from home and we've not won away in the league in months so eventually the results might be the end of him we're 9 games in now this is getting a very serious concern that can't just be ignored.
Disagree massively on that. Allegri is literally the closest thing you'll find to Sir Alex or Wenger in the modern game.
1. He took Conte's squad that got eliminated in the group stage the previous season all the way to the Champions League Final (knocking out Klopp and Ancelotti along the way).
2a. He became only the 2nd manager this decade (after Jose Mourinho) to complete the Scudetto and Copa Italia double and the first manager to achieve this feat at Juventus since Marcello Lippi in his first spell (1995).
2b. He did this by adding only Evra, Kingsley Coman and Alvaro Morata to the side for a combined £17m.
2c. Lippi, Fabio Capello and Carlo Ancelotti managed this only once between them with much stronger squads than the one he inherited.
2d. He won 4 consecutive doubles in his 5 years.
3. Look at the starting xi from the 2015 compared to now:
2015:Buffon; Lichsteiner, Chiellini, Bonucci, Evra; Marchisio, Pirlo, Pogba, Vidal; Tevez, Morata.
2019: Szczęsny; Cancelo,Chiellini, Bonucci, Alex Sandro; Pjanic, Bentancur, Emre Can; Ronaldo, Dybala, Douglas Costa.
Those are just the starting line ups. He's added depth to the squad with the likes of Bernardeschi, De Sciglio, Ramsey (signed by him), Demiral (signed by him to replace Chiellini), Cuadrado and Khedira.
4.After the 2015 final, he lost Pirlo, Vidal and Tevez. Replaced with Mandzukic, Cuadrado, Khedira and Dybala. Still won the double in the following season and came within an incorrect linesman's flag of eliminating Pep's Bayern in the Champions League.
5. 2016- lost Pogba and Morata. Replaced with Higuain and Pjanic. Another double + Champions League Final.
That's all I can remember for now, other than the fact that he revamped the squad, is tactically flexible and gets players performing for the badge.
 

IDFD

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You seem to be missing one massive point. Juventus have a football set up. The manager isn’t the person making the calls on personnel.
 

jsp

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Allegro is a great manager I said that but I stick with my opinion he’s someone who needs to start with a strong base and he can pretty much deliver instant success.

I don’t think he’s a man who has a vision on how to create something.

Give him all the parts and he’ll build a great efficient machine ask him to design the machine and I’m not sure he’ll create the same thing.
 

Mr C

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Saturday showed, that when he has a striker, it's not dross. Just give him some time.
 

RichH2016

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Saturday showed, that when he has a striker, it's not dross. Just give him some time.
Sunday...

I still don't think he's the right man, I need to see a lot more before I'm convinced but he's bounced back nicely and that's encouraging.
 

Mr C

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yeah Sunday, I still live in the 70's when football was played at 3pm Saturday :p
 

IDFD

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Sunday...

I still don't think he's the right man, I need to see a lot more before I'm convinced but he's bounced back nicely and that's encouraging.
We’ve got Bournemouth Partizan Brighton before the international break. Not hard games but if we pick up 3 wins that’ll be a nice mini period between the two breaks. 6 wins a 1 draw vs Liverpool. Need to start carrying some momentum on the back of these 3 away wins.

Arsenal are in free fall. Chelsea have got City let’s cut the gap a bit!
 

RichH2016

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We’ve got Bournemouth Partizan Brighton before the international break. Not hard games but if we pick up 3 wins that’ll be a nice mini period between the two breaks. 6 wins a 1 draw vs Liverpool. Need to start carrying some momentum on the back of these 3 away wins.

Arsenal are in free fall. Chelsea have got City let’s cut the gap a bit!
Well... This didn't age well bud.
 

Sideshow Bob

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As permanent United manager: 29 games, 8 wins, 9 draws, 12 losses.
 

boothstownred

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It isn't great bob, I think we all know that. I just believe we should give him the next 2 windows, until around this time next year before we start all over again
 

jsp

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Pros
Signed 3 good players
Got rid of 2 big earning under performing problem players
Seems to have improved the atmosphere in the dressing room
Isn’t Jose Mourinho

Cons
Can’t score from open play
Can’t create chances
Defensive errors still a problem
Attacking Set pieces are basically pointless
Left the squad short of attacking players
 

boothstownred

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That's about the size of it. I think maybe a better tactical number 2 might have been the way forward. I think phelan is pretty old school
 

IDFD

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Well... This didn't age well bud.
It didn’t indeed. It was a shockingly poor performance.
However I still stand by the fact he needs to be given a decent amount of time and not just jump on every loss we have as a reason to get rid of him. Also why are we going with his permanent record and just go with his record as manager. I’ve never seen this ‘permanent record’ used by anyone else before.
 

jsp

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That's about the size of it. I think maybe a better tactical number 2 might have been the way forward. I think phelan is pretty old school
Yeah Phelan, Carrick, McKenna don’t strike me as being at the cutting edge of the game but it’s always tricky with coaches as we just don’t know who does what on a day to day basis.

There have been a few groans about the training methods under Ole but my guess is a lot of that came from the fact he decided he needed the fitness levels up so I’m guessing it wasn’t a lot of ball work over the summer.

A few have said it but Ole being the director of football type figure at this stage makes more sense than being the coach but that’s almost an impossible move for him to make.
 

TheChosenJuan

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It isn't great bob, I think we all know that. I just believe we should give him the next 2 windows, until around this time next year before we start all over again
Bayern sacked Kovac despite being 4 points off 1st and winning 2 trophies last year. Likewise Ancelotti who had won the League in the season following Pep 's departure
 

Mr C

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from what I read, it was down to poor finishing again, not really Ole's fault. We definitely need a striker.

For, me, I knew this sseason would be like this, just look at our squad. I think we need to just go with it for this season, and see what happens next.
 

jsp

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Bayern is a totally different club to us these days they're a club who are used to dominating their league they're the big dog in their yard and no one should be able to compete with them. They were probably lucky to win the league last year after Dortmund collapsed and Kovac was lucky to keep his job there was certainly pressure that he might go at the end of last season.

Utd are not in a dominant position we are trying to recover rather than maintain dominance this is a much harder thing to do because it's much easier to be at the top trying to stay there than it is trying to climb the ladder because you can't afford any mistakes when you are chasing.

I mean judging purely on results which is all we really see as fans he's a very lucky man to still have his job he'd have been long gone at other top clubs off the pitch which is what we don't see things seem to be better but he is running out of excuses for the on pitch stuff.

My personal opinion is we have a squad full of over rated players if they didn't have a Utd badge on the shirt they play in no one would be giving them a second look the top sides aren't trying to buy our players which is a sign of where we are right now and until that changes changing the manager isn't really going to solve our problems.
 

boothstownred

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We don't really create enough chances to be just the finishing. I don't think our strikers are natural goalscorers but by the same token our midfield isn't creative enough to give them loads of chances
 

jsp

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Yeah I only saw the highlights but didn't really see anything to suggest finishing was a problem James had a snap shot through bodies from the edge of the box that went just past the post and McTominay had a shot from long range that the keeper spilled but no one reacted to.

The Xg for the game was 1.5-0.8 so the quality of our chances wasn't particularly high.

Yes finishing could be a bit better and we would expect better but really it's creativity that is the major problem and has been the problem all season we are not creating good chances our crossing into the box is poor, our play around the box is slow, our inter play between players is almost non-existant and individually our players don't create many shooting chances.
 

TheChosenJuan

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from what I read, it was down to poor finishing again, not really Ole's fault. We definitely need a striker.

For, me, I knew this sseason would be like this, just look at our squad. I think we need to just go with it for this season, and see what happens next.
Is anything ever his fault?
 

boothstownred

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Of course he has made mistakes. Hasn't everybody. I just don't personally feel like he has had enough time.
 

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