How long do we give Solskjaer?

If you have to think about whether you’re a United fan for even a second, you’re probably not.
 
I assume he’s disappointed with how well we played and it’s a strange feeling.
 
United have lost 2 of 12 big games against the ‘big six’ under OGS
 
United have lost 2 of 12 big games against the ‘big six’ under OGS

Pretty sure our record vs the "big six" under Jose was still pretty good the issue remains the points obtained vs the "little fourteen" and that has shown little improvement under Ole and arguably has got worse.

I don't get how anyone can cheer on the opponent against us even if you want a manager out.
 
Premier League: Manchester City 1-2 Manchester United - 7th December 2019

Fair play to Solskjaer and his team. The performances in the last two matches have been outstanding.
 
Need to get rid of this swing between the ridiculous and the sublime.

The players can play in the big games; Ole needs to show he can get them to play in every game.
 
Yeah that’s the big thing, we need to show we can perform in the ‘lesser’ games too. We’ve been brilliant in most of our games against the bigger clubs - Arsenal was probably the worst performance against a big team. Some of the performances against Newcastle, West Ham etc were abject so we need to improve in that area.

I think a key factor is having Pogba back. We have a good base now with Fred and McT so we need Pogba to create those chances.

Promising signs but no means out of rocky waters yet.
 
The Glazers aren’t good for the club we’re all aware of that. However are you criticising your boss regularly in public? Course you’re not. Ole would be committing career suicide to criticise the Glazers. The same way Fergie never did.

Also 900m in 6 seasons and the highest wage bill in the league for 3 out of the last 5 seasons is a significant investment. The problem hasn’t been a lack of money spent its that the money hasn’t been spent well.
Doesn't matter how much was spent if Ed is the one doing the spending. Sir Alex is massively culpable for this mess as merely reinvesting the CR7 money in the summers following his departure would have avoided the entire situation.

For me, the rot began in 2009, when CR7 was sold and Tevez allowed to leave that summer. Hindsight is 2020,but the cracks were becoming visible on 7 April 2010 when Louis van Gaal's Bayern knocked us out of the Champions League
 
Doesn't matter how much was spent if Ed is the one doing the spending. Sir Alex is massively culpable for this mess as merely reinvesting the CR7 money in the summers following his departure would have avoided the entire situation.

For me, the rot began in 2009, when CR7 was sold and Tevez allowed to leave that summer. Hindsight is 2020,but the cracks were becoming visible on 7 April 2010 when Louis van Gaal's Bayern knocked us out of the Champions League

You make it sounds like Sir Alex had a choice in that the stranglehold of the PIK loans at that time made spending impossible so Fergie towed the club line with that whole no value in the market stuff replaced Ronaldo with Valencia which wasn't a terrible signing but replacing Ronaldo at that point was impossible as he was the best player in the world. We could have maybe took Robben at that time but I think Fergie was concerned about him coming back to England where he'd struggled at times and the fact he'd stitched Utd up probably left a sour taste. Losing Tevez as well that summer was a real double whammy especially when he was replaced by Owen.

I certainly think 2009 was the last truly great Utd team, 2011 was very much a kind draw allowing us to get to the final but we were miles away from Barca by this point.

I think the point where it really started to get serious was when City started signing players like Yaya Toure, Silva and Aguero real top tier talent that made a massive difference up to that point we'd been able to keep on top of them when those 3 came City were now level par with us.

In terms of Ole's future very little has changed in the last month for me there will be ups and downs the only change is the presence of Pochettino on the market I do think that changes things and Utd should be finding out what he thinks about the idea of taking over next season. If he fancies it then Utd certainly have to consider it as he is an upgrade on Ole as a coach and if Utd don't qualify for the CL next season then change has to be considered I know it might seem harsh but that has to remain the minimum standard even if the club is rebuilding.
 
You make it sounds like Sir Alex had a choice in that the stranglehold of the PIK loans at that time made spending impossible so Fergie towed the club line with that whole no value in the market stuff replaced Ronaldo with Valencia which wasn't a terrible signing but replacing Ronaldo at that point was impossible as he was the best player in the world. We could have maybe took Robben at that time but I think Fergie was concerned about him coming back to England where he'd struggled at times and the fact he'd stitched Utd up probably left a sour taste. Losing Tevez as well that summer was a real double whammy especially when he was replaced by Owen.

I certainly think 2009 was the last truly great Utd team, 2011 was very much a kind draw allowing us to get to the final but we were miles away from Barca by this point.

I think the point where it really started to get serious was when City started signing players like Yaya Toure, Silva and Aguero real top tier talent that made a massive difference up to that point we'd been able to keep on top of them when those 3 came City were now level par with us.

In terms of Ole's future very little has changed in the last month for me there will be ups and downs the only change is the presence of Pochettino on the market I do think that changes things and Utd should be finding out what he thinks about the idea of taking over next season. If he fancies it then Utd certainly have to consider it as he is an upgrade on Ole as a coach and if Utd don't qualify for the CL next season then change has to be considered I know it might seem harsh but that has to remain the minimum standard even if the club is rebuilding.
Not harsh at all. In fact, way too lenient. Ole is being graded on a curve and still falling behind. The fact that a victory against Everton on Sunday will take him beyond Mourinho's total at the same stage last season also doesn't tell the full story.

At the 17 game point last season, with Mourinho in "melt-down" mode, he had already :
A. Qualified for the 2nd round of the Champions League with barely any additions. Losing at home to Juve and away to Valencia, but becoming the first manager to defeat Juventus in their new Stadium with an English side. (Ole lost both home games in the Champions League last season without scoring).
B. Travelled to Liverpool, Southampton, City, Bournemouth, Chelsea, West Ham, Burnley and Brighton. (Ole has faced Liverpool, Chelsea and Brighton at home. City, West Ham and Bournemouth have been faced away and we've yielded 3 points total, same as last season. Watford and Burnley away were fixtures Jose won last season, Ole has struggled against such teams).
C. Jose was overruled by Ed despite winning as many trophies as Pep by the 2 Season point and having reached more Cup finals. He had also secured Champions League football twice and achieved our best finish of the post SAF era. Moreover, he did so by defeating every team in the League and having spent a lot less than Guardiola despite inheriting a much weaker squad. (Ole got the defender Jose wanted along with a Full Back that the Portuguese would have also signed, yet was allowed to purchase both at World Transfer Record prices for CB and Full Backs. I keep hearing that Ole's transfers were amazing massive upgrades yet the squad is worse off than the one Mourinho apparently should have won the League with.)
D. Mourinho faced a hostile media environment from late 2017 until he was sacked by Ole's ex teammates. Nothing was good enough, apparently he had been given enough money and needed to produce football on the level of Real Madrid in 2012 along with trophies. Funnily enough, late 2017 was when Mourinho recommended Luis Campos as a DOF candidate. (Ole apparently needs his own players, 3 more transfer windows and deserves more time because Jose Mourinho spent x amount. Yet Mourinho cleared a lot of deadwood like Schneiderlin, Memphis, Januzaj and tried to get rid of Darmian only for Ed to nix that deal. He also never got his first choices and was massively outspent by Pep).
 
That is such a one sided post I almost don’t know where to start with it. Picking at Ole failing to score against PSG and Barca at home but failing to mention he won 3-1 away at PSG is probably a good place. And that’s coming from someone that also wasn’t Mourinho out. To get in Ole’s back after the last 9 days is ridiculous.

We’re through the group stages of the Europa with a 4-0 win and we’ve just beating Spurs and City. Relax for a moment.
 
Mourinho has basically admitted he allowed his frustration to build and destroy things at the club to the point where he had to be sacked he’d taken his team that finished 2nd the previous season to mid table. Yes he was right to be frustrated with the board for not signing players but you don’t always get what you want and he’d been extremely well backed the 2 previous summers. Rather than just try to make the most of the situation he was in maybe crept it was a fight for 4th that season he decided to burn the whole thing down.

Mourinho was not the right fit for Utd at that point he was probably the right man to take over post Fergie but after LVG it was not the right way to go and Woodward has to carry the can for that disaster last year you don’t give Mourinho a new contract then don’t back him. I don’t think he had everyone’s support from the start but when he started turning on his players I think the ex players in the media turned on him big time as they know once you do that it is curtains.

I’m glad he’s gone he was a horrible cloud over the club by the end he’d turned into a disgusting person in the way he treated everyone and again I think he’s recognised that. At Spurs he’s changed his coaching staff and I think he will try to evolve a bit tactically as a result he’s no fool he knows the old methods don’t work anymore football teams now have to score lots of goals to be successful.

Let’s not keep looking back at the previous manager we have to look forward the club has to stick with the plan to overhaul the playing squad as we know it’s not good enough. Doubts remain over the manager but let’s judge him by where he finishes after 38 games not 16 games things do need to improve but I think Utd have to have a contingency plan.
 
Mourinho has basically admitted he allowed his frustration to build and destroy things at the club to the point where he had to be sacked he’d taken his team that finished 2nd the previous season to mid table. Yes he was right to be frustrated with the board for not signing players but you don’t always get what you want and he’d been extremely well backed the 2 previous summers. Rather than just try to make the most of the situation he was in maybe crept it was a fight for 4th that season he decided to burn the whole thing down.

Mourinho was not the right fit for Utd at that point he was probably the right man to take over post Fergie but after LVG it was not the right way to go and Woodward has to carry the can for that disaster last year you don’t give Mourinho a new contract then don’t back him. I don’t think he had everyone’s support from the start but when he started turning on his players I think the ex players in the media turned on him big time as they know once you do that it is curtains.

I’m glad he’s gone he was a horrible cloud over the club by the end he’d turned into a disgusting person in the way he treated everyone and again I think he’s recognised that. At Spurs he’s changed his coaching staff and I think he will try to evolve a bit tactically as a result he’s no fool he knows the old methods don’t work anymore football teams now have to score lots of goals to be successful.

Let’s not keep looking back at the previous manager we have to look forward the club has to stick with the plan to overhaul the playing squad as we know it’s not good enough. Doubts remain over the manager but let’s judge him by where he finishes after 38 games not 16 games things do need to improve but I think Utd have to have a contingency plan.
You know that Mourinho wasn't Sir Alex or Sir Bobby's first choice to replace LVG? I read earlier this year (will try to find it) that Allegri was their preference, and Ed messed it up..

Come to think of it, that makes perfect sense. LVG offered his resignation at the end of 2015 (not long after Jose got fired by Chelsea). We picked up form not after that and i think LVG felt safe because Allegri was still employed. But then I think around late January, Ed royally pissed Allegri off. This was after Sir Bobby and Sir Alex had personality done the recruitment.

The fact that the Pogba transfer was in the works makes perfect sense as well. The man for whom Pogba produced his best football would be a logical choice to be his manager at United.
 
I never heard Allegri was Sir Alex or Sir Bobby’s first choice? Would be interested to find an article on this. I’m calling rubbish on that one unless it physically came from their mouth and not some made up media story.
 
I never heard Allegri was Sir Alex or Sir Bobby’s first choice? Would be interested to find an article on this. I’m calling rubbish on that one unless it physically came from their mouth and not some made up media story.
 
An exposé on lazyfansports.com? I mean come on, that’s like me using Wikipedia in my reference list on a uni assignment.
 
Mourinho has basically admitted he allowed his frustration to build and destroy things at the club to the point where he had to be sacked he’d taken his team that finished 2nd the previous season to mid table. Yes he was right to be frustrated with the board for not signing players but you don’t always get what you want and he’d been extremely well backed the 2 previous summers. Rather than just try to make the most of the situation he was in maybe crept it was a fight for 4th that season he decided to burn the whole thing down.

Mourinho was not the right fit for Utd at that point he was probably the right man to take over post Fergie but after LVG it was not the right way to go and Woodward has to carry the can for that disaster last year you don’t give Mourinho a new contract then don’t back him. I don’t think he had everyone’s support from the start but when he started turning on his players I think the ex players in the media turned on him big time as they know once you do that it is curtains.

I’m glad he’s gone he was a horrible cloud over the club by the end he’d turned into a disgusting person in the way he treated everyone and again I think he’s recognised that. At Spurs he’s changed his coaching staff and I think he will try to evolve a bit tactically as a result he’s no fool he knows the old methods don’t work anymore football teams now have to score lots of goals to be successful.

Let’s not keep looking back at the previous manager we have to look forward the club has to stick with the plan to overhaul the playing squad as we know it’s not good enough. Doubts remain over the manager but let’s judge him by where he finishes after 38 games not 16 games things do need to improve but I think Utd have to have a contingency plan.
Mourinho wasn't well backed in his first 2 summers let alone his 3rd when compared to:
A. Klopp: Got his first choice signings
B. Guardiola: Inherited a better squad, outspent Mourinho in their first 2 summers respectively by far and was afforded his first or 2nd choice every single time.

Your assertion that Mourinho was extremely well backed falls apart when compared to both Klopp and Guardiola. He also worked to clear out the deadwood, and for the first time in memory, did so while recouping the initial outlay. On top of that, he usually was given his 3rd or 4th choice player rather than 1st or 2nd. Other issues with your assertion include:
A. You are parroting a Glazer family talking point
B. You ignore achievements relative to spend
C. You disregard how little of our revenue is spent on players
D. The fact that he requested a Director of Football, even recommending Luis Campos, whom Woodward didn't even contact.
E. The likes of Rio, Scholes and Schmeichel began turning against him in late 2017, doing Ed's bidding to poison the well against him.

Then there is your "you can't always get what you want" argument, which, given your use of it is in addition to the "extremely well backed" line leads me to assume you are justifying Ed's actions in 2018. Let's look at what the extremely well backing led to shall we.

Summer 2016:
Eric Bailly = £30m- signed without consulting Mourinho's, but Jose liked that type of defender (young, physical, good on the ball)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan = £25m- signed behind Jose Mourinho's back and wasn't even a target for LVG
Zlatan= Free- A Jose Mourinho signing.
Pogba= £90m- was in the works, not a typical Mourinho signing, but the potential was there
TOTAL= £155M
Achieved a Double of League Cup and Europa League, becoming the first Manager in the club's history to capture a major trophy in his debut season. Qualified for the Champions League and should have been a building block.

Summer 2017/Jan 2018
Lukaku= £65m + Rooney(£10m)
Lindelof= £35m (Consider that Ederson was purchased by Pep from the same team for more money. Also consider that Jose wanted Koulibaly and Varane ahead of him).
Matic = £40m : not Mourinho's first choice (Dier, younger and in better form was).
Sanchez= Swap with Mkhitaryan: definitely not a Mourinho type of signing. He had wanted Ivan Perisic and tried to include Darmian, not Martial, in the deal. All was agreed until Ed interfered and tried to reduce the fee for Ivan, causing Inter to kill off the deal.
TOTAL: £150m
Achieved a 2nd place finish on 81 points while defeating every team in the League. 2nd best defence with Valencia and Young as Full-Backs. Reached the FA Cup Final and 2nd round of the Champions League.

Summer 2018:
Despite providing great ROI for the first 2 seasons (look at how much City spent on how many players despite inheriting a better squad. Add to Klopp having gotten his primary targets in addition to both Liverpool and City splashing huge money on Centre Backs in January- Laporte and Virgil respectively). Jose Mourinho, in light of this, requested a Left Back, Centre Back and a CM. Not much at all. He wanted Alex Sandro from Juventus, Maguire from Leicester and a CM like Fabinho. Ed said no to Sandro, and said no to Maguire, Koulibaly,Boateng and Alderweireld. Mourinho himself said Fred needs a strong defence behind him to flourish.
This was in a summer where Pogba won the World Cup, Maguire was less than Fred and Alex Sandro was attainable given Juve's acquisition of Ronaldo.
This was after 2 seasons where the club were merely a few missing pieces from mounting a proper challenge and yet people like you took Ed's side.
 
Absolutely and let’s make this clear because you don’t get it nobody backs Ed. Or the Glazers. If you think that’s true you’ve lost it.

However currently you’re backing Ed. You want him to stay and Ole sacked. You have this tirade that no one is arguing against. No one likes the Glazers but what’s really annoying is you’ve ignored 3 great performances to slag off something else. Enjoy the games we’ve just seen and wait for the next lost to continue your Ole hate filled rubbish
 
Give it a rest pal you’re talking garbage.

Go look back to posts on here in 2018 and you’ll see how pissed off everyone was about the lack of signings and where fingers were pointed. They weren’t pointed at Mourinho they were pointed at Woodward everyone wanted a director of football to come in to support the manager.

Year 1 - Bailly, Pogba, Mchitaryan and Zlatan
Year 2 - Lindelof, Matic, Lukaku, Sanchez
Year 3 - Grant, Dalot, Fred

No one knows who was picking the players and making the decisions we can only speculate about that based on rumour but that’s 11 signings over 5 transfer windows and by the end of his reign it seemed only Matic was a player he actually wanted in his team every week.

The finger points at everyone for that mess manager, scouts, directors and owners the club chucked a fortune down the toilet now a new manager has got to clear out the mess and start again.

As for 2013 as far as we know Fergie kept it all hidden same as Gill by the time it came to making a decision Woodward was basically in charge Mourinho was committed to going back to Chelsea and Utd took a gamble on Moyes. A stupid decision that backfired massively.
 
Give it a rest pal you’re talking garbage.

Go look back to posts on here in 2018 and you’ll see how pissed off everyone was about the lack of signings and where fingers were pointed. They weren’t pointed at Mourinho they were pointed at Woodward everyone wanted a director of football to come in to support the manager.

Year 1 - Bailly, Pogba, Mchitaryan and Zlatan
Year 2 - Lindelof, Matic, Lukaku, Sanchez
Year 3 - Grant, Dalot, Fred

No one knows who was picking the players and making the decisions we can only speculate about that based on rumour but that’s 11 signings over 5 transfer windows and by the end of his reign it seemed only Matic was a player he actually wanted in his team every week.

The finger points at everyone for that mess manager, scouts, directors and owners the club chucked a fortune down the toilet now a new manager has got to clear out the mess and start again.

As for 2013 as far as we know Fergie kept it all hidden same as Gill by the time it came to making a decision Woodward was basically in charge Mourinho was committed to going back to Chelsea and Utd took a gamble on Moyes. A stupid decision that backfired massively.
Ole isn't the man. I don't care about becoming a sacking club
 
Ole isn't the man. I don't care about becoming a sacking club

He might not be but harking back to Mourinho is a waste of time he had his chance and it didn’t work out.

We need a manager who can work within the current structure and deliver success Mourinho wasn’t that man I think people rightfully have doubts over Ole but he should get this season to prove he is the man.
 
He might not be but harking back to Mourinho is a waste of time he had his chance and it didn’t work out.

We need a manager who can work within the current structure and deliver success Mourinho wasn’t that man I think people rightfully have doubts over Ole but he should get this season to prove he is the man.
When Allegri is available? When Pochettino and Blanc are available?
Ole is towing the Glazer line and lowering our expectations
 
You do realise that every manager is going to tow the Glazer line or get sacked?
 
Not really- no manager has had the free ride Ole has faced. Worse points return than Mourinho in melt down mode.

What does that have to do with towing the Glazer line? How often do you walk in to work and go and openly criticise the company owners where they can hear you?
 
Not really- no manager has had the free ride Ole has faced. Worse points return than Mourinho in melt down mode.


You do realise, when they gave Ole the job, everyone said it wouldn't be easy and there would be real low points. It's a huge project to overhaul and this is just the begining. Sacking the manager again will just send us backwards again.

The teams position in the league is a reflection of the quality of the squad.
 
When Allegri is available? When Pochettino and Blanc are available?
Ole is towing the Glazer line and lowering our expectations

You take their money you tow their line no matter who comes they're in the pocket of the owner and they'll be playing by their rules as they own the club. No manager will ever have the power within to speak out against them again the only one who ever had that chance was Fergie.

Ole is trying to do something different to the last 3 managers he's got to overhaul the squad when the coffers have been emptied to some extent by previous managers with no CL revenue budgets are reduced as well this is just a sad fact of the reality we are in now it isn't a bottomless money pit there's a budget that he's got to work with and that is it.

Does he need to do better 100% yes but so far I back all his decisions in terms of changes to the squad he's forcing out the players who aren't performing the team is playing ok it just lacks some quality in the attacking areas which hopefully we can now address. To be fair I don't think any manager gets much more out of these players he's finally getting a tune out of Fred and McTominay in midfield but up top it's a struggle vs the teams who like to sit deep.

Allegri has said he's not taking a job until next season, Pochettino can't take a PL job until next season without the club having to pay up his compensation and he probably needs a break and Blanc has been off the radar for a long time.

I think 5th or 6th is ok but not great this season.
 
I agree, Fred in particular has improved, he's doing well with what he has. We should have won yesterday, for one their goal shouldn't have stood from what they said on the radio. Secondly we should have scored a few more. Just lacking that quality/experience.
 
I agree, Fred in particular has improved, he's doing well with what he has. We should have won yesterday, for one their goal shouldn't have stood from what they said on the radio. Secondly we should have scored a few more. Just lacking that quality/experience.

100% their goal should be ruled out it's honestly ridiculous that VAR isn't changing that everyone knows you can't touch the keeper when he's in the air it's been that way for a decade and Calvert-Lewin barges into him just as he's about to make contact with the ball.

I don't know if we did deserve the win we didn't really create anything clear cut in the game apart from the chance Lingard had in the first minute. Rashford had a couple of decent efforts from free kicks/range that Pickford dealt with quite easily.

If we had nicked it I don't think Everton could have complained but I felt a draw was a pretty fair result in the end.

We looked better though we managed to sustain pressure which is something we haven't been doing but Everton defended well and Utd's attacking players all had off days. Martial was bullied a bit by the 2 Everton centre backs and struggled, Rashford and James in the wide areas didn't really create much and Lingard offered almost nothing.

I think if we can get Pogba into this team as a number 10 in these games he will help provide some break through and help link the midfield and attack a bit better as currently unless we can put one of the front 3 in behind they don't really offer much threat playing in front of a deep defence.
 

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