How long do we give Solskjaer?

[RichH2016]

So I'd like to know... At what point do people start to think maybe Ole isn't the man? Results are poor and that's to be expected. But the performances? It's turgid.

 

[boothstownred]

For me probably about 10 games into next season. Regardless of whether ultimately he is the right man he at least deserves the next 2 windows to improve it if we get rid of him and bring poch in and after 10 months we are the same or worse do we get tod of him too.

 

[RichH2016]

For me probably about 10 games into next season. Regardless of whether ultimately he is the right man he at least deserves the next 2 windows to improve it if we get rid of him and bring poch in and after 10 months we are the same or worse do we get tod of him too.

So you're willing to give him over a season more despite the results he's had since taking the job full time? And build a team that potentially will need to be overhauled again if he's sacked?

 

[IDFD]

I’d comfortably give Ole til the end of next season regardless of what happens. The problems are above his head and people have already chased out LVG and Mourinho. What’s the point in changing managers to hound out him too. Give it time and stick with it for once.

 

[RichH2016]

Well hey sacking managers hasn't worked so I can see that logic. I don't think he's the right man but I would love to be wrong. P

 

[boothstownred]

So you're willing to give him over a season more despite the results he's had since taking the job full time? And build a team that potentially will need to be overhauled again if he's sacked?

Yes

 

[Sideshow Bob]

I would replace him with Pochettino if he became available.

Rodgers was appointed two months later than Solskjaer yet Leicester play with an identity.

 

[TheChosenJuan]

I would replace him with Pochettino if he became available.

Rodgers was appointed two months later than Solskjaer yet Leicester play with an identity.

There are 3 men on my shortlist, of which 2 are immediately available. They are as follows:

1. Massimiliano Allegri-
It may not stop the rot completely, but it will arrest the bleeding, so long as an assertive manager with a winning mentality is his replacement. Given that Pogba is our star player and how the board are prone to make rash appointments following a good run while not being the types to learn from mistakes, there are 3 candidates, of which 2 are immediately available:

1. Allegri- has worked with Pogba before, has managed Evra, is a winner who has experience in replacing a club legend (and a successful one at that in Conte who is the closest comparison to Zidane/Pep/Luis Enrique). He reached a Champions League final with Conte's squad, won Juventus their first double since 1995 in his first season, won 3 other doubles and reached another Champions League final. He also rebuilt the team AFTER losing Pirlo, Vidal, Tevez and Coman in 2015 along with Pogba and Morata in 2016. Let's not forget that he was incredibly unlucky in 2016 (disallowed goal when 2-0 up at Bayern in the 2nd leg, the penalty against Real in the last minute in 2018). Let's not forget that Cristiano Ronaldo joined Juventus on his watch and he's excellent in the transfer market. On a final note, the last manager to win a Scudetto with a team not called Juventus and the last to secure Champions League qualification with Milan despite losing Zlatan, Nesta, Seedorf, Gattuso and Thiago Silva the previous summer without any of them being replaced. An absolute winner who wont take crap from Woodward either. 9/10

2. Laurent Blanc- PSG's most successful Manager of the Qatar era, won the League with Bordeaux prior to that (breaking Lyon's dominance) and helped to lay the foundation for France's World Cup win by guiding them through the aftermath of the Domenech era. A winner of every trophy barring the Champions League and finished his playing career at Manchester United where he helped Rio Ferdinand to settle and was a mentor to an in-form Wes Brown. 8/10

3. Pochettino- proven in the premiership, tactically astute, guided Spurs to a Champions League final and like his former international teammate Simeone, has only missed out on Champions League qualification in his first season at the Club. 8/10.

My undoubted first choice is Allegri, with Blanc edging Poch slightly due to having won trophies. Also bring in Evra as DoF to work with either of the first 2.

 

[Mr C]

I would replace him with Pochettino if he became available.

Rodgers was appointed two months later than Solskjaer yet Leicester play with an identity.

Leicester aren't going through a major rebuild.

I'd give him next season to get into the top 4.

 

[TheChosenJuan]

Leicester aren't going through a major rebuild.

I'd give him next season to get into the top 4.

We played with an identity in his first 3 months and then he inexplicably dropped Lukaku after 2 bad games and dropped Pogba deeper. He also doesn't understand the mental side of the game either (and am not referring to how this generation are seen to be lazy snowflakes). I'll give you an example of Ferguson understanding it and taking a player out of the team when they were suffering from mental fatigue in the Treble Year.
Peter Schmeichel made about 3 errors in the entire first half of the 1998/99 Season and was obviously tired mentally. Ferguson dropped him in January 1999 for almost a month and he came back revitalised and led the team to the Treble. You know that Ole was a part of that team. De Gea made about 3 errors in the 2 Premier League games that preceded both of the legs against Barcelona in addition to an error in each of those games. He also made one against Arsenal. Ashley Young was also at fault for standing off Messi for their first goal. We have Romero as stand in while Darmian and Valencia were both fit for the run-in.
Ole starts Dave against Everton (2 errors), City (2 errors), Chelsea (error right on half time that allows Chelsea to equalise) and Huddersfield (rush the striker and force him out wide, don't run at him straight and make it obvious that you'll try and save with your feet). In all but 1 of the games following that night in Barcelona (2019 version), Ashley Young wore the armband.
He wore it again last night. How did it come to this?

 

[Mr C]

You're speaking like you know Ole well.

Maybe they thought playing him, showing him loyalty, might persuade him to sign a new deal, in a dead rubber season where dropping him was pointless.

If the team was rubbish under Jose, what makes you think it will be better under Ole after 1 transfer window?

Jeez, I just don't get this attitude, the sqaud is rubbish and we have had critical injuries. Give him time.

Young, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Matic, Fred. These players are not going to win you trophies.

Pogba is playing like he doesn't want to be here, Rashford can't shoot.

What is it you expect any manager to do with this squad.

There comes a time when you have to realise, after so many managers, maybe it's not the managers fault. You can't just change 8 players in one window, and you need to sell players when the deals are offered. So at the moment our squad is unbalanced. We need a couple of years to sort this

 

[SuperRash]

Ridiculous to even be discussing Ole being sacked. While he is not blameless, he can be a little iffy with his subs and game management, also he could have been a little bit more progressive in the transfer market but to want rid is nonsense.

The state is this club right now is due to years of squad mismanagement, ‘superstar’ signings who weren’t the right fit and a main guy in Woodward who’s financially excellent but has no football knowledge. Ole had a huge job picking up the pieces and the problems will not go away overnight. He has to be given time and that’s what I think he’ll be given.

If we sacked him tomorrow we would be giving the same problems to a new man. And a few months down the line when things weren’t going so well we would be calling for the head of the new coach, or would someone like Poch get more time because he’s well known? We need to ride this out, it could well get worse before it gets better but give the guy time and a couple more windows to further stamp his authority.

 

[jsp]

Top 4 had to be the target at the start of the season but that looks a long way off

In terms of on the pitch I remain unconvinced.

Tactically Utd look exactly the same as they did under Mourinho
Set Pieces are an absolute joke the quality of delivery is poor and the tactic of clipping it to Maguire and hoping for a second ball is so basic
Squad building have to say he’s not tooled up his squad sufficiently for the season, this may be a board decision but either way we’ve been left well short.
Developing players are any of our existing players better now than they were 12 months ago?

To me he carries himself in the statesman like way we’d like to see our manager behave it’s done with class BUT I’m not seeing him as someone I trust. His vision feels like more harking back to the past not trying to take us in the future and be at the cutting edge. I think the 3 signings he’s made have been good but a much more aggressive approach was required in the summer simply put more had to be done.

For me if things don’t improve in the next 10 games and Utd are marooned in mid table or even worse then serious questions will have to be asked. I don’t think it’s panic and sack time but I think unless we see some green shoots of progress the club has to consider a plan B for the summer.

These type of performances can’t be tolerated at a club like Utd it’s not good enough take his name away and ask would we tolerate this from another manager?

 

[RVN]

Top 4 had to be the target at the start of the season but that looks a long way off

In terms of on the pitch I remain unconvinced.

Tactically Utd look exactly the same as they did under Mourinho
Set Pieces are an absolute joke the quality of delivery is poor and the tactic of clipping it to Maguire and hoping for a second ball is so basic
Squad building have to say he’s not tooled up his squad sufficiently for the season, this may be a board decision but either way we’ve been left well short.
Developing players are any of our existing players better now than they were 12 months ago?

To me he carries himself in the statesman like way we’d like to see our manager behave it’s done with class BUT I’m not seeing him as someone I trust. His vision feels like more harking back to the past not trying to take us in the future and be at the cutting edge. I think the 3 signings he’s made have been good but a much more aggressive approach was required in the summer simply put more had to be done.

For me if things don’t improve in the next 10 games and Utd are marooned in mid table or even worse then serious questions will have to be asked. I don’t think it’s panic and sack time but I think unless we see some green shoots of progress the club has to consider a plan B for the summer.

These type of performances can’t be tolerated at a club like Utd it’s not good enough take his name away and ask would we tolerate this from another manager?

Agree 100%.

I don't think it is asking too much to demand the performances of when he was caretaker manager. We are tactically naïve and devoid of any creativity. I love Ole but he is not a manager who will improve players, and seems to be there to tow the club line.

 

[jsp]

Agree 100%.

I don't think it is asking too much to demand the performances of when he was caretaker manager. We are tactically naïve and devoid of any creativity. I love Ole but he is not a manager who will improve players, and seems to be there to tow the club line.

I do wonder what would have happened if the club had waited I think the results would still have dropped off as he flogged the team until they broke and tactically he was worked out. My guess is they’d have gone to Allegri who I really rate but I think he’d have failed as he wouldn’t have been able to do what needed to be done with this squad the rotten apples needed to go.

The main thing is he’s such a popular guy that players can’t get away with just chucking in the towel as the fans will turn on them first, those who’ve said they want out have been allowed to go as long as suitable offers came in. I think he is weeding out the problems but how far do you let things fall to then bounce back? As for the board they’ve almost appointed a guy who’s impossible to sack and because he’s got all his mates in the media they are pointing fingers at them now. The message is now consistent fingers pointing upstairs if Ole can hold it together he could force major investment this summer.

I think he’s been over optimistic with our kids maybe second half of the season they will improve having been given chances but I think the real youngsters look a long way off apart from Greenwood.

I do worry if he can attract the top talent players do now look at managers and my worry is how many players will want to play for Solskjaer.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Leicester aren't going through a major rebuild.

United are going through a major rebuild to be a title challenging team. A major rebuild isn't/wasn't required to be a top four team.

An identity can be created without the need of a major rebuild. There is little method or thought in United's style of football. We are over reliant on moments of brilliance from individuals.

 

[Mr C]

United are going through a major rebuild to be a title challenging team. A major rebuild isn't/wasn't required to be a top four team.

I happen to disagree with that, If Jose couldn't getbthat team into the top 4, then they are not a top 4 team.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

I don't think a major rebuild was required for top four. The club should have signed a top quality midfielder or an attacker instead of a centre back and not let our best goal scorer leave.

Mourinho is a busted flush at the highest level.

 

[RichH2016]

I don't think a major rebuild was required for top four. The club should have signed a top quality midfielder or an attacker instead of a centre back and not let our best goal scorer leave.

Mourinho is a busted flush at the highest level.

Sorry bud but you're wrong. This is absolutely the worst team in the post Fergie era. Jose couldn't get us in to the top 4 and this scheme is significantly worse.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Sorry bud but you're wrong. This is absolutely the worst team in the post Fergie era. Jose couldn't get us in to the top 4 and this scheme is significantly worse.

I'm not wrong. At one point last season United were 4th with something like 10 games remaining. We ended up 5 points off 4th despite the collapse towards the end of the season.

As I say, Mourinho is done as a top flight manager.

 

[Mr C]

we needed a new CB for sure, our goals conceded probably reflects that - I haven't checked. But our defence does look ok at the moment.
The midfield need looking at, but you can't do it all at once. And I imagine not knowing what Pogba was doing didn't help with that rebuild. I think next summer, sell him and rebuild the midfield from scratch. No messing, and no not knowing if he will go.

As for Lukaku, if he's not in the long term plan, then you have to sell when the bids come in. It's just a shame for us that Martial got injured.

Our squad is weak when fully fit, with injuries then it's too light weight. We don't have the ball players

 

[RichH2016]

I'm not wrong. At one point last season United were 4th with something like 10 games remaining. We ended up 5 points off 4th despite the collapse towards the end of the season.

As I say, Mourinho is done as a top flight manager.

You are wrong. We are 10th and a major rebuild was needed. You say we were 4th with 10 games to go and collapsed... What exactly do you think is happening still? Why can't people just be honest and recognise this team is actually utter garbage.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

You are wrong. We are 10th and a major rebuild was needed. You say we were 4th with 10 games to go and collapsed... What exactly do you think is happening still? Why can't people just be honest and recognise this team is actually utter garbage.

I am not wrong. A major rebuild was not required to finish fourth. This squad is weaker now than it was last season.

 

[IDFD]

I don't think a major rebuild was required for top four. The club should have signed a top quality midfielder or an attacker instead of a centre back and not let our best goal scorer leave.

Mourinho is a busted flush at the highest level.

When Mourinho was here constantly playing Lukaku it was ‘why does he keep playing Lukaku and not give Martial games through the middle.’

 

[Mr C]

I am not wrong. A major rebuild was not required to finish fourth. This squad is weaker now than it was last season.

it is, but that is part of the porcess.

The players we sold, were always going to get sold. You cannot hang onto them until it you want to let them go. It's not like people were knocking down our door to get at Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling. If the bids come in, sell them.

It's just part of the process. The team was awful, it needed a complete rebuild and we have started. We have brought in three great players. A few more windows like that and we will be competitive. Sometimes it has to get worse to get better.

And to say its not awful and didn't need a rebuild, I think you must have watching a different team. You've got ask yourself why no one was coming in for our players. And the clubs that did, weren't even the best in Serie A. None of the big clubs want our players, because they are sub standard.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

we needed a new CB for sure, our goals conceded probably reflects that - I haven't checked. But our defence does look ok at the moment.
The midfield need looking at, but you can't do it all at once. And I imagine not knowing what Pogba was doing didn't help with that rebuild. I think next summer, sell him and rebuild the midfield from scratch. No messing, and no not knowing if he will go.

As for Lukaku, if he's not in the long term plan, then you have to sell when the bids come in. It's just a shame for us that Martial got injured.

Our squad is weak when fully fit, with injuries then it's too light weight. We don't have the ball players

I disagree about a centre back. Our defensive record is very good, however the fixtures at the start of the season have been kind. Our goal scoring threat is letting us down; we are joint 10th for goals scored with Wolves and Norwich. I still stand by what I said in another thread, a solid defence is the final piece in the jigsaw for a title challenging team. See Liverpool and City. We would have got through the season with Lindelöf and Smalling. We can’t go through the season expecting to thrive on 1-0 victories. An attack minded team is more likely to finish in the top four than a team winning 1-0.

It was wrong to let Lukaku leave or least not buy a replacement, regardless of bids or him wanting to leave.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

When Mourinho was here constantly playing Lukaku it was ‘why does he keep playing Lukaku and not give Martial games through the middle.’

I don’t think Lukaku should have been a regular starter. He would have an a very good alternative option, who was more likely to score a goal than any other player in the squad.

 

[Mr C]

Lukaku wanted to go don't forget. He was never a long term player for us. You cant wait two seasons, a decent bid came in that we would have never have got again. It was right to sell him. Unfortunately Martial got injured. I answered this in the other too.

It's funny how football can divide opinions so much. I wonder how that happens, when we all support the same club and want it to be strong again.

 

[jsp]

I keep saying it Utd are not a top 4 club.

The record over 6 seasons backs it up we've been top 4 twice in 6 seasons that is not a set of consistent results we've finished 6th 3 times in that period we are the 6th best team in England currently the results back that up.

The biggest thing for Ole right now is his message has started to change to the fans. In the summer it was Lukaku goes we need a striker, then it was the kids are good enough to do the job, now it's of course we need a striker. He's changed his position 3 times in a month. It's starting to sound like he's just telling us what he wants us to hear rather than rather than the truth you have to stick to your message.

A lack of leadership above him is a problem I think a proper technical director type person would have been able to say we just can't let these guys go and rely on kids we have to put some short term plan in place to protect ourselves and it's going to cost some money.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

it is, but that is part of the porcess.

The players we sold, were always going to get sold. You cannot hang onto them until it you want to let them go. It's not like people were knocking down our door to get at Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling. If the bids come in, sell them.

It's just part of the process. The team was awful, it needed a complete rebuild and we have started. We have brought in three great players. A few more windows like that and we will be competitive. Sometimes it has to get worse to get better.

And to say its not awful and didn't need a rebuild, I think you must have watching a different team. You've got ask yourself why no one was coming in for our players. And the clubs that did, weren't even the best in Serie A. None of the big clubs want our players, because they are sub standard.

Sanchez is the only deadwood we let leave. I would have let Smalling and Lukaku leave next summer.

I never said a rebuild is not required. A rebuild is required, but a major rebuild isn’t required to finish fourth.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Lukaku wanted to go don't forget. He was never a long term player for us. You cant wait two seasons, a decent bid came in that we would have never have got again. It was right to sell him. Unfortunately Martial got injured. I answered this in the other too.

It's funny how football can divide opinions so much. I wonder how that happens, when we all support the same club and want it to be strong again.

Pogba wanted to leave.

The club should have taken the hit over the transfer for Lukaku. His goals this season would be more important than losing out on an extra £20m-£30m.

 

[RichH2016]

I am not wrong. A major rebuild was not required to finish fourth. This squad is weaker now than it was last season.

You are wrong. We finished off the pace for top 4 last year and are worse off now.

 

[jsp]

I don't think a major overhaul was required to make us top 4 a major overhaul was required to make us top 2.

fair play to @Sideshow Bob in the summer he was beating the drum about the attack when everyone was talking about the need for the defence after the horror show of last season but the attack was the bigger long term problem.

You can never score to many goals in football and it's something mad like once in 15 games has this team scored more than 1 goal in a game.

 

[IDFD]

The world and his dog knew we needed a RW.

But we also without a doubt needed a CB.

We didn’t need a striker until we let both Sanchez and Lukaku go. And Lukaku’s first touch annoyed me more than anything else in the last 18 months.

 

[Mr C]

lets be honest, none us really knew how lame Rashford is up front. The idea was Martial, then Rashford, then Greenwood. Rashford has been woeful.

I can definitley see why they sold Lukaku and Sanchez. I can see why they gambled on the three we had until someone we really wanted was available, and it hasn't work. But I don't think that should jump to sack Ole. It's just what we have to go through.

The whole squad needs changing, for me it doesn't matter if you start at the back or front, it all ends up the same. If you've got a lame defence, you can't attack.

Smalling
Sanchez
Lukaku
Rojo
Jones
Pereira
Lingard
Fred
Matic


these all need letting go. That is a lot of sub standard players, is that squad a top four squad. No it's not.

Pogba needs to go, and looking at this season, so does Rashford. He needs to improve fast.

Is Mctominay a starter in a prem league winning team?

It's a mess, and the manager should be given the chance to sort it. Changing manager every year or two is not going to work.