How Good Was.... Nani?

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
Inspired by the recent Official Man Utd podcast where they did an interview with Nani thought I'd make him the subject of my first one of these.

You need to give him an overall mark out of 10 based only on his time at Man Utd.

So on this scale
Giggs is a 10.
Tiabi is a 1. ( I don't care if his first game was a solid performance at Anfield after that he was dreadful).

Nani for me was one of those guys who on his day was unstoppable and capable of the truly bonkers but on an off day he made everyone around him.

He never hid away always wanted the ball and always took risks in his play.

Scored some crucial goals and some amazing goals always seemed to be a guy for the big occasion as well.

I do wonder what would have happened to him if Carragher hadn't hobbled him at Anfield in 2010-11 he was flying that season really stepped up a level but he got injured and just couldn't get back in the team as Valencia hit some form. Think that season sort of summed him up a good player but not quite a great one.

Overall I'd have him as a 7/10 player

For those who enjoy podcasts the official club one is well worth a listen they get a mixture of current and ex players and you get a bit of their personality come through more than you get with MUTV interviews.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
Nani was shite more often than not. He used to frustrate me greatly.
5/10, no more. This is Man Utd, not a fecking circus.
 

O-Dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,050
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
7/10 seems about right. Some great goals and a fair few assists.

Unlucky with that red against Madrid. Think we would've won if the ref got that right.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,813
Age
33
Those who I’ve communicated with for a long enough time will remember Nani was a favourite of mine. The guy was extremely talented. He had the problem of being decent down the left wing but exceptional down the right. If he’d been a worse player down the left wing he’d have made that right wing his own and Valencia wouldn’t have been a name people remember. There was so much to Nani’s game but he only wanted to really show it against Arsenal.

His biggest two problems were firstly he was always compared to and had a go at for not being Ronaldo. Secondly he was a confidence player. You could tell within about 10 minutes if he was going to have a good game.

I think he was massively under appreciated and if you had a player of his quality playing down the right for us now you’d be calling him one of the best players in the squad. Extremely frustrating at time’s because you knew he had more in him but on his day he was unstoppable.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
5,143
I'm with Shoot, frustrating player, had belters of a game and then was just awful


6/10
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
See how a few more see it currently he's sitting between a 5-7.

Did 6 or 7 seasons with the club I think he won 4 league titles, 1 European cup & 3 league cups but always struggled to hold down a starting place.

I bumped him up to 7 because he had bottle he wasn't scared of the shirt or f*cking up that is a huge thing that I think has been missing at this club in recent years new signings just get swallowed up can't handle the pressure and hide on the pitch. They don't want the ball whereas Nani always wanted it even when he was playing crap which is what top players do.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
5,143
I'd have Park as a 7 and he was, in my eyes, a way better player, and of more use to the team.

edit. maybe a 7.5 for Park
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
Park was likely to be a separate poll for me I'd have him as the same as Nani played a supporting role in a very good era for the club.

Basically to be a 10/10 you need to be deserving of a trophy outside old Trafford so it's start there and work back was my thinking on the scale.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,813
Age
33
Park wasn't a better player than Nani. Park was good at the job he did in big games. But he was brought in as a winger and he lacked a lot of creativity.

Park was at the club 7 years started 94 premier league games. He was subbed off in 49 of those games. In 7 years he played 60 minutes or more in 79 games. Just over 11 proper league appearances a year. He was someone who was a bit of a cult player and was loved but he was always vastly over rated except for when doing his job as a spoiler. I mean the games against Barcelona he was fabulous but that highlighted him as a player completely. He was then left out of the final squad which was a shame for him as he'd certainly more than played his part in getting us there. But he never had the ability of Nani and i'm always hesitant to rate a footballer because he can run a lot.

Talking of Nani certainly brings back the discussions of old. The Nani vs Valencia argument and the Ronaldo vs Rooney debate that caused divides for many a year!
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
In the era they played in neither was good enough to be a nailed on starter but in pre or post Fergie sides both would have been starters every week in their prime is sort of how I'd sum it up.

Both played key roles at times in the success but they weren't ever classed as nailed on starters like Rooney, Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Evra who played in that era as well there were lots of periods where even if they were fit they'd be starting on the bench.

I felt in 2010-11 Nani really looked like he was stepping it up to the next level he made the PFA team of the year that year but then injuries really seemed to kick in and in my head after that we just saw less and less of him. In the final season under Fergie he only played 21 games. The club then gave him a 5 years deal when Moyes took over but he hardly played and his club career sort of fizzled out going on various loans.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
Some are impressed just cause he could tumble his wilkies

I mean check out his best goal videos and you'll see there was more to him than the very impressive back flips he scored goals players couldn't even dream about scoring and a lot of them came against good teams.

Fair to say he was never consistent and the "next Ronaldo" tag he carried was a burden but he was an entertainer when he got the ball in a bit of space you felt something might happen which is what makes football exciting.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
I mean check out his best goal videos and you'll see there was more to him than the very impressive back flips he scored goals players couldn't even dream about scoring and a lot of them came against good teams.
If there was a video of his poor and often embarrassing performances you would need to hope for lockdown to last in to next year to give you time to watch it. I think some have short memories, you cannot dwell only on the highlights.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
If there was a video of his poor and often embarrassing performances you would need to hope for lockdown to last in to next year to give you time to watch it. I think some have short memories, you cannot dwell only on the highlights.

Mate he frustrated the life out of me at times I always felt we could easily upgrade him but when you look at the crap we've had on the wings since he's been gone you realised while he wasn't great he wasn't actually that bad.

I just remember in big games you knew you could trust him as he'd get some space to work with where he struggled was against teams who'd sit in he never really worked out how to pick the lock which is the difference between the good players and the great ones.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,813
Age
33
Some are impressed just cause he could tumble his wilkies

112 international caps for Portugal doesn't happen to a poor player. He had a lot more about him than he was given credit for and the idea he didn't have much more to his game is unfair on him. As I said it's nothing to do with short memories we debated this time and time again at the time. He proved all his doubters wrong once and for all on the biggest stage at Euro 2016 where he was fantastic on route to the final and then stepped up to the plate once Ronaldo went off and lead that team. He'd start every week in this current side. Probably still today at 33.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
Mate he frustrated the life out of me at times I always felt we could easily upgrade him but when you look at the crap we've had on the wings since he's been gone you realised while he wasn't great he wasn't actually that bad.

I just remember in big games you knew you could trust him as he'd get some space to work with where he struggled was against teams who'd sit in he never really worked out how to pick the lock which is the difference between the good players and the great ones.
One thing I never done with Nani was trust him. You say he won 4 titles, a European Cup and 3 League cups. No he didn't! he was fortunate enough to be at a club where he was able to collect these medals for which his contribution was never good enough or consistent enough. Some of his performances were totally embarrassing, constantly losing possession, making poor choices, not playing the obvious pass and generally fecking up much to the frustration of his team mates and fans alike.
From time to time it came of for him and resulted in the spectacular top corner goal. All good for him, and that is what he was, a ME man. He was not a team player and i have never heard any other United player of the time singing his praises.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,813
Age
33
How can you say you never heard his team mates sing his praises. He won players player of the year in 2010/11 so was obviously highly regarded by his team mates.

To say his contribution wasn't enough and he only collected those medals just isn't true. 9 goals and 18 assist in the 2010/11 season is a great season both good enough and consistent enough to earn medals in anyone's book. Topped the assist chart, you don't do that by not being a team player. I'd suggest the short term memory come from forgetting just how good he was that year.


As the post says history hasn’t been kind to him but he was often a very good player for us.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
One thing I never done with Nani was trust him. You say he won 4 titles, a European Cup and 3 League cups. No he didn't! he was fortunate enough to be at a club where he was able to collect these medals for which his contribution was never good enough or consistent enough. Some of his performances were totally embarrassing, constantly losing possession, making poor choices, not playing the obvious pass and generally fecking up much to the frustration of his team mates and fans alike.
From time to time it came of for him and resulted in the spectacular top corner goal. All good for him, and that is what he was, a ME man. He was not a team player and i have never heard any other United player of the time singing his praises.

Well he did win them he was part of those teams this is a team sport not an individual sport. Was he massively responsible no but he made his contributions and I'd say the league title and league cup wins in 2011 he made a massive contribution towards don't know who got it that season but he was our POTY that year. The other league titles very much a supporting role to the stars not going to argue with that.

His role in the team was to create and score goals to do that you need to have imagination and try high risk things unless you are a player like Beckham or De Bruyne and can put the ball anywhere you want from anywhere on the pitch. Yes he'd take on some crazy shots but he had it in his locker to score so if the chance is there you take the shot no one scores every time. He always put the defensive shift in and worked hard for the team so he wasn't a lazy winger who didn't give a cr*p. Is he in the very top bracket of Giggs/Beckham/Ronaldo/Best as a winger obviously not but he's not in the flop group either he had a good but not great spell at Utd.

As for other team mates singing his praises I've never heard anyone asked about how good he was? If you asked them they'd probably say the same stuff we are on his day he was unstoppable but he could also be frustrating as he'd trying mad things sometimes that resulted in nothing.
 

Cosmic Slop

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
623
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I remember Nani constantly blowing free kicks, holding onto the ball too long, not playing in team mates, and then scoring a wonder goal and doing a flip in celebration. He seemed to have two settings: woeful and amazing. There have been many passengers in great teams, and I'd say at times Nani was a passenger. I'd also say John O'Shea was a much more important player for the club than Nani, despite their obvious gulf in class/ability. Nani has many similar players in United's recent story to compare to, all of the obviously talented players who were never able to truly adapt their style to the demands of the team. I was glad when we let him go.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
I remember Nani constantly blowing free kicks, holding onto the ball too long, not playing in team mates, and then scoring a wonder goal and doing a flip in celebration. He seemed to have two settings: woeful and amazing. There have been many passengers in great teams, and I'd say at times Nani was a passenger. I'd also say John O'Shea was a much more important player for the club than Nani, despite their obvious gulf in class/ability. Nani has many similar players in United's recent story to compare to, all of the obviously talented players who were never able to truly adapt their style to the demands of the team. I was glad when we let him go.

What would you rate Nani out of 10?
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
112 international caps for Portugal doesn't happen to a poor player. He had a lot more about him than he was given credit for and the idea he didn't have much more to his game is unfair on him. As I said it's nothing to do with short memories we debated this time and time again at the time. He proved all his doubters wrong once and for all on the biggest stage at Euro 2016 where he was fantastic on route to the final and then stepped up to the plate once Ronaldo went off and lead that team. He'd start every week in this current side. Probably still today at 33.
I have no interest on what he did with Portugal, my views are based solely on what he did for United and it simply wasn't good enough. He wouldn't get a game in the squad Ole is in the process of building.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
How can you say you never heard his team mates sing his praises. He won players player of the year in 2010/11 so was obviously highly regarded by his team mates.

To say his contribution wasn't enough and he only collected those medals just isn't true. 9 goals and 18 assist in the 2010/11 season is a great season both good enough and consistent enough to earn medals in anyone's book. Topped the assist chart, you don't do that by not being a team player. I'd suggest the short term memory come from forgetting just how good he was that year.


As the post says history hasn’t been kind to him but he was often a very good player for us.
Faded fast, that is the most accurate thing that could be said about him. A flash in the pan.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
but he was our POTY that yea
Yes, I think he pipped Obertan, Bebe and Diouf such was our desperation to find a new star. You think a decent spell in a single season makes him a 4 time champion, Euro cup winner and 4 league cup winner. In seven seasons the club was entitled to much more.
but he's not in the flop group either he had a good but not great spell at Utd.
Over 7 years that's a flop to me. Certainly not a 7/10 unless you are basing it on a single season as you seem to be doing.
As for other team mates singing his praises I've never heard anyone asked about how good he was?
Exactly, that's because he is very forgettable
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
I remember Nani constantly blowing free kicks, holding onto the ball too long, not playing in team mates, and then scoring a wonder goal and doing a flip in celebration. He seemed to have two settings: woeful and amazing. There have been many passengers in great teams, and I'd say at times Nani was a passenger. I'd also say John O'Shea was a much more important player for the club than Nani, despite their obvious gulf in class/ability. Nani has many similar players in United's recent story to compare to, all of the obviously talented players who were never able to truly adapt their style to the demands of the team. I was glad when we let him go.
Now, that is Nani in a nutshell.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
13,769
Yes, I think he pipped Obertan, Bebe and Diouf such was our desperation to find a new star. You think a decent spell in a single season makes him a 4 time champion, Euro cup winner and 4 league cup winner. In seven seasons the club was entitled to much more.

Over 7 years that's a flop to me. Certainly not a 7/10 unless you are basing it on a single season as you seem to be doing.

Exactly, that's because he is very forgettable

Think he pipped Berbatov who was our top scorer that season Hernandez who broke through out of nowhere, Rooney who after a crap start carried us to a CL final and still had the defence of VDS, Vidic, Rio & Evra. Wasn't our greatest ever team but it was still a pretty good one Nani basically carried it while Rooney was off crying about wanting to join City before eventually signing his new deal.

7 is slightly above average which is where I'd sit Nani I like wingers and in my time watching Utd I've been blessed to see some of the best to ever do it Nani wasn't in that group but he was in the one slightly below it.

I think from Nani we had 2 alright seasons to start but he was a young kid, 2 good seasons in the middle then 2 pretty poor seasons at the end so I think a 6 or 7 is a pretty fair mark.

I bumped him to a 7 because he won a lot and he had a lot of memorable moments some of them personal to me like him turning that game vs City around in the Community Shield which is a game I was at. Some of them games I watched surround by Arsenal fans he absolutely loved sticking one in against them.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
5,143
David May won prem medals and a CL medal.

JSP and IDFD have pin pointed one season, 2010 - 2011? Looking at the season summary , Berbatov should have won P.O.Y.

Anyway, he had one half decent season in 7 or 8 years.

For me, he was mainly gash, with a wondergoal now and then.

But I don't dislike him, he tried, and he loved the club.

I think 6/10 is a fair score, just below average.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,813
Age
33
I didn’t look at the season summary. Why should Berbatov have won it though. For record 25% of his goals that season were assisted by Nani. As I said it was players player of the year and his peers regarded him as our best player. Nani contributed to 27 goals in the premier league? As I said people forget just how good he was that season. He also got in to double figures the season before it wasn’t just one decent season. And to call 27 combined league goals and assist half a decent season is ridiculous.

Didn’t Berbartov get left out of the Champions League final squad that season?

He was frustrating at times but people liked to get on his back. Was often the same with Ronaldo people blew it well out of proportion. Players like that will make mistakes trying things trying to make something happen and I’d much rather players giving things a go and getting it wrong than hiding in games.

As for the David May comparison. He played 85 games in 9 years. Nani played 240 games scoring 40 goals and getting 73 assist. For a ‘half decent’ player that’s not a bad return. 113 goals contributed to over his 7 year period.

Nani is third on Uniteds all time premier league assist records. Ahead of the likes of Ronaldo, Scholes, Beckham, Valencia, Mata, Pogba, Young. The only two players he's behind are Rooney and Giggs. Obviously he wasn't on the level of a few on that list. But he done a much better job for us than he's given credit for.

Before I'd said that, those of you rating him as half a decent season with the occasional wonder goal and a one trick pony that was just a me man where would you have guessed he was on our assist list?
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
5,143
to be fair, for the position he played and time at the club I'd expect him to above most of those for assists. Ronaldo was all about me, Scholes was too central, valencia, Young and Mata well enough said. The one I am surprised at is Beckham, but as you probably remember, I felt he was over rated.

I guess it's just personal choice. A lot of united fans didn't rate Berbatov, but he's an 8 for me. Berbatov should never have been dropped for CL final. Nani only came on when Barca scored their 3rd. so it's pretty much the same.
Fergie went way too negative for that game, he should have picked the best attacking squad. I wonder if there is something on his thoughts of that team pick.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
Some here have clearly been watching best of compilation videos of Nani so as their memories have been distorted.
I put him in a group of exotic players from around that era that failed to live up to their potential and quickly fade in the memory. The likes of Kleberson, Anderson, Veron.

In 2009 I was on the edge of my seat in a game against Aston Villa when Macheda came of the bench and scored a goal that effectively gave us the title. It was an amazing moment and Macheda lives in the memory of most of us for that alone.
Nani didn't give us such a moment and he does not live greatly in the memory for me. When folk prompt me to remember him, it's his more dreadful performances that come to the fore.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,813
Age
33
Some here have clearly been watching best of compilation videos of Nani so as their memories have been distorted.

I think it's more the case some have a memory of what actually happened around the time and appreciated that goals win games and he contributed to many of them, as oppose to just being miserable and highlighting mistakes when trying to make something. I've never watched a single best of compilation video of Nani. I don't need to I spent enough time watching him and appreciating him at the time. Even without the wondrous moments that there were many of his stats speak for themselves.

He was never like Kleberson or Veron who flopped. He had a very good United career. Anderson was a disappointment after a great start.

He was like marmite and people loved or hated him but to say he failed here like Veron/Kleberson is just plain incorrect. He didn't fail or flop and that's not even debatable.
 

SuperRash

Moderator
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
4,676
Age
33
So you’re using Macheda as an example even after that goal he was useless? The guys are using the same basis for Nani that at times he was brilliant and his best performances are ones that live in the memory.

For the record a couple of Nani moments live long in the memory for me - that amazing performance against Arsenal and his outrageous skill. Also the stunner against Chelsea. The Macheda moment was unreal but meh he was useless.

I haven’t weighed in the debate yet but I, like IDFD, really liked Nani and he was one of my favourite players. Sure he was frustrating but some of the stuff he could do was brilliant. What we would do for a player like him now that actually tries the outrageous - didn’t always come off but for me he was a really good player. Not top draw but a solid 7 out of 10 for me. Can’t even compare him to Anderson or Kleberson - shouldn’t even be in the same debate. Oh and Veron was a great player but we just somehow couldn’t get/or see the best of him here.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
Point is, brilliant moments are remembered when they are found at a time when they are REALLY needed.
Playing in a cavalier style and banging the top corner from time to time may be good to watch, but at what expense when it is followed by performances that were so embarrassing they could fall right into the unprofessional bracket.
I recall times when his team mates on the field of play, fans in the stands and fans watching on TV were left totally exasperated by him.
I certainly would not be pining for a Nani clone now.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
5,143
to be fair to IDFD, it's no compliation video offering, we had these chats all the time, at the time.

Veron, was a way better player, better than most who have played for united, just didn't work for him there. So I think keep him out of it. And Nani was much better than Macheda.

My memory of Nani is nothing really, he was a nothing player. Made up the numbers, so can't be a 7 for me. I was never excited when he was playing or when he came on. He was never going to change a game, he just didn't have that in him. He was passive.
 

Shoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,887
to be fair to IDFD, it's no compliation video offering, we had these chats all the time, at the time.

Veron, was a way better player, better than most who have played for united, just didn't work for him there. So I think keep him out of it. And Nani was much better than Macheda.

My memory of Nani is nothing really, he was a nothing player. Made up the numbers, so can't be a 7 for me. I was never excited when he was playing or when he came on. He was never going to change a game, he just didn't have that in him. He was passive.
Nani was of course better than Macheda. My point is, Nani never gave us a memory even close to Macheda's.
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Top