Euro 2020 Final: England vs Italy

It's still a very exciting time. I don't think any of those players that started yesterday were over thirty.
 
Kyle Walker maybe is the only one who you think might be close to calling it a day with England maybe Trippier as well but with the World Cup so close you imagine they'll continue and in James/TAA England have two top right backs coming though.

It feels like a good group as well they all seem to have each others backs so I imagine they're all buzzing to go to international meet ups
 
The big thing for them to get over now is the mental part of it. I hope the weight doesn't get too heavy like for previous squads.

And it's about time the coaches at all levels taught penalties to be, pick a corner and whack it. I think most of the penalties missed in this tournament have been the ones waiting for the keeper to blink.

The two Harry's knew the score...boom.

Italy deserved it, the better team, but I think with a more expansive coach we could have won, I think we had the better squad. I'm not saying I want Gareth sacked, far from it, he'd doing really well. But he needs to learn, that was there for the taking.
 
I read in Germany during the 90's not only did the coach pick the order of the penalty takers he would also tell the penalty takers where to shoot so they removed all decision making from the process for the player which they felt helped them to relax. They watched the players take penalties in training and decided which one they felt was their best penalty and basically told them to shoot like that in the game if it went to a shoot out.

Penalty taking certainly has become a lot more cat and mouse with the keepers and I think the margin for error has reduced in the last 20 odd years as keepers can now move sideways on the line but I'm not a fan of the stuttering or hop. Bruno does it and he's ridiculously consistent with his numbers so I guess it all just comes down to technique.

Sadly for those boys on the night their technique let them down at the crucial moment.
 
The big thing for them to get over now is the mental part of it. I hope the weight doesn't get too heavy like for previous squads.

And it's about time the coaches at all levels taught penalties to be, pick a corner and whack it. I think most of the penalties missed in this tournament have been the ones waiting for the keeper to blink.

The two Harry's knew the score...boom.

Italy deserved it, the better team, but I think with a more expansive coach we could have won, I think we had the better squad. I'm not saying I want Gareth sacked, far from it, he'd doing really well. But he needs to learn, that was there for the taking.
Without a doubt. Southgate was lost. Mancini got the upper hand and Southgate just stood there helpless. At the first interval he should switched up England's approach and then early on brought on the first sub, around 55 minutes, possibly Grealish. That would have changed the dynamic, and then once Grealish got a few touches he should have brought on Sancho, no later than 65th minute. Southgate should have thrown caution to the wind to win in it regular time. The equalizer was coming for a long time and once it happened, England's goose was cooked. Southgate had the players just not the tactical nous.
 
Been a few great post today. But I particularly like this one.

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Pogba showing his class.
 
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This angle of it makes me want to cry. Them celebrating whilst he can't move and then the England players beginning to run over.
 
I read in Germany during the 90's not only did the coach pick the order of the penalty takers he would also tell the penalty takers where to shoot so they removed all decision making from the process for the player which they felt helped them to relax. They watched the players take penalties in training and decided which one they felt was their best penalty and basically told them to shoot like that in the game if it went to a shoot out.

Penalty taking certainly has become a lot more cat and mouse with the keepers and I think the margin for error has reduced in the last 20 odd years as keepers can now move sideways on the line but I'm not a fan of the stuttering or hop. Bruno does it and he's ridiculously consistent with his numbers so I guess it all just comes down to technique.

Sadly for those boys on the night their technique let them down at the crucial moment.
That is brilliant physiology and obviously worked
 
Southgate bottled this. Italy were all over the shop in the first half and instead of going for them, we limped to halftime the poorer side. There were moments in the game like the first half, the end of the 90 and ET where we needed to be brave and retake the initiative and go for them. Instead we made cowardly subs and were too scared of losing the control we didn’t have to properly go for it.
Rashford and or Sancho should’ve been on earlier. Same with Grealish. Give them something to think about. Make them defend down the flanks. Scare them. Instead we were too shit scared to risk going forward and unsurprisingly bottled pens.
Speaking of which, players you didn’t trust to play meaningful mid are trusted with 3-5 pens? A 19 year old is 5th? Sterling doesn’t step up and demand one like Maguire did? We had moments when we could’ve grabbed victory and make it ours and we were too scared to risk losing to win it. fecking gutted.
Spot on mate
 
It still feels like opportunity lost just like the world cup in 2018 the draw opened up for us but the moment we came up against a really good side we fell short.

So where do we go now?

Southgate obviously isn't going to be going anywhere but he's got to try and build a way of playing before 2022 that allows us to stand tall against the better sides and keep the ball. That will involve removing the extra layer of protection he likes for me the back 3 needs to go in the bin we won't beat good sides playing that system as it makes us to defensive. I do think it worked well vs Germany to match them up but against good sides who play the back 4 it won't work for us.

After 2018 England actually looked to be moving towards a new style they had a really bright attacking 4-3-3 system which got them some great results but it feels like we slipped back into being more cautious in the last 12/18 months.

Can Southgate throw off that naturally defensive and safe mindset he's had throughout and build himself an attacking side that might be able to go one further in Qatar.
 
In reality the football team did really well, it's the fans that let everyone down. FA should start there.

Happened in 96 too lets not forget, I remember all the BMW's and Merc's getting trashed.

We keep saying it's a minority, but is it?

Apparantly Mike Tindel had to break up a fight and Zara Philips needed to wipe blood from her seat. I imagine they weren't in the cheap seat either.
 
It's clearly a minority. 30m people watched the game. 15m plus wern't out there being idiots.

I do feel that having such a big run at the tournament after people being kept at home for a year probably didn't help. A lot of people can't handle their booze and a night out at the best of times let alone when they've had a year without any practise on these long all day sessions they've been doing.

I think UEFA need to learn from this too. The stewards aren't like they are at the premier League where they're employed by the clubs. These are volunteers like at the Olimpics.
 
I'm saying it wasn't a minority at Wembley. There are lots and lots stories doing the rounds.

I guess it depends on what you call a minority.

Apparantly there were only 300 police there, which doesn't seem right.
 
I'm listening to R5 and chats about the racism. And of course it's terrible, but someone just said it wouldn't happen if a white player had missed. He obviously doesn't remember the hanging David Beckham effigy. Stoked by the press!
 
I think Wembley has been a problem for a number of reasons.

Ticket numbers were restricted because of Covid.

Ticket prices were ridiculous.

Tout prices were off the scale there were so many tickets up for grabs for the final if you were willing to pay over a grand, how have UEFA allowed this to happen?

Once in a lifetime for England fans who will be desperate to say they were there so many fans will look to get in by any means necessary.
Stadium Security wasn't up to scratch both the semi final and final had problems keeping people out who didn't have tickets they simply weren't ready for a crowd of that size. Wembley need to seriously review how they arrange security around the ground but it's hard to close an area like that down on a matchday as the stadium is now surrounded by other businesses. It wasn't like that when the ground opened.

Kick Off time. Why is that game kicking off at 8pm? Can't be for the TV audience in Europe or Asia the kick off time allowed huge drunk crowds to build. UEFA need to address that for 2024 and bring the kick off forward a few hours.

England fans. There's a real growing stag do mentality amongst our fans people absolutely off their tits by lunchtime acting like idiots at a festival launching glass bottles up in the air. A large number of the idiots who were in London on Saturday won't even be going to the match they were just there for the experience and when these groups all start drinking early and banging the cocaine it's only going to end up one way.
 
plus booze was on sale in Wembley way I think.

It needed more police, I read there were 300 at the start of the match
 
UEFA investigating the problems at Wembley. That WC 30 out the window
 
plus booze was on sale in Wembley way I think.

It needed more police, I read there were 300 at the start of the match

I don't think booze being inside Wembley was really the issue a lot of the time the booze on sale in grounds is low alcohol stuff anyway they just keep that quiet certainly has been when I've gone to UEFA games.

Where the policing failed was allowing booze to be consumed in places like Leicester Square and on Wembley Way which is where most of the problems were. These are traditional places where fans gather on a matchday so there's no reason why the police shouldn't have had them under control my guess is they thought they'd rather have everyone misbehaving in one area rather than spread across loads of areas.

You can't drink a can of beer on the street around most football grounds to stop stuff like this happening. I'd be guessing but I'd say a lot of the people who were in those areas on Sunday didn't have a ticket and had no plans to even try and get one or get in they were just there for the rave and the party before heading off somewhere to watch the game on TV.

The police just didn't seem to be prepared for it and things got really out of control to a point where had they tried to step in things would have turned very nasty very quickly.
 
As for the World Cup in 2030 we would never get it any way we surely learned that lesson in 2018 when it went to Russia.

Assuming the world cup has to be in Europe in 2030 if England bid on paper it should be an absolute sure thing but we all know that isn't how FIFA operate even after their reforms they'll go anywhere but here not because of fan trouble but because the whole world basically hates us.
 
Anyway back to the point.

As a football team where do England go from here?

Southgate obviously isn't going to leave his post before the World Cup in 18 months you'd think qualification should all but be guaranteed with this group but can Southgate change this team so that it can handle a 90/120 minute contest against a top opponent without spending the vast majority of the game on the back foot.

I know he looked to France in 2018 and how they were solid as a unit but they were still able to keep the ball against top sides in the last 2 tournaments where England have gone out we've spent huge chunks of games without the ball and that has killed us. Can Southgate change that in the next 18 months before Qatar 2022?
 
Anyway back to the point.

As a football team where do England go from here?

Southgate obviously isn't going to leave his post before the World Cup in 18 months you'd think qualification should all but be guaranteed with this group but can Southgate change this team so that it can handle a 90/120 minute contest against a top opponent without spending the vast majority of the game on the back foot.

I know he looked to France in 2018 and how they were solid as a unit but they were still able to keep the ball against top sides in the last 2 tournaments where England have gone out we've spent huge chunks of games without the ball and that has killed us. Can Southgate change that in the next 18 months before Qatar 2022?
Hopefully he will learn but needs to be more positive the upside is that the brilliant young talent that we have will be 18 months more experienced with a Final under their belts
 
snip

Southgate obviously isn't going to leave his post before the World Cup in 18 months you'd think qualification should all but be guaranteed with this group but can Southgate change this team so that it can handle a 90/120 minute contest against a top opponent without spending the vast majority of the game on the back foot.

I know he looked to France in 2018 and how they were solid as a unit but they were still able to keep the ball against top sides in the last 2 tournaments where England have gone out we've spent huge chunks of games without the ball and that has killed us. Can Southgate change that in the next 18 months before Qatar 2022?
Short answer: no.
Southgate played defensively against minnows too. He's not the type to unleash the kraken. Look at how Mancini made changes tactically and then subbed on players to further implement changes. The England team is better than the Italians yet they lost to them. If Mancini or someone like him comes available you should hire him immediately and send Southgate packing.
 
I'm saying it wasn't a minority at Wembley. There are lots and lots stories doing the rounds.

I guess it depends on what you call a minority.

Apparantly there were only 300 police there, which doesn't seem right.


FA has said 10,000 people broke in, that's nearly 10% of fans inside legally. Then there is all the grief outside the stadium during the day.

This is not a minority
 
That's a lot more than 10% of the fans inside legally. It was a 60k capacity game.

So nearly 17% of the fans would have been in illegally if true. However 17% is still a minority.

I'd like to see how they got to those numbers. I don't believe they'd have ever got it back under control if those numbers are correct.

Anyway it wouldn't be a percentage of people compared to those in the stadium. It's estimated there were 250,000 people at Wembley Way without tickets. So it would be 10k as a percentage of that. Which is 4%. Which is clearly a minority.
 
Short answer: no.
Southgate played defensively against minnows too. He's not the type to unleash the kraken. Look at how Mancini made changes tactically and then subbed on players to further implement changes. The England team is better than the Italians yet they lost to them. If Mancini or someone like him comes available you should hire him immediately and send Southgate packing.

I don't think he played defensively against minnows he played sensibly against teams he knew we were better than to get results to make sure we progressed to me that's good management. I don't think Mancini really made major tactical changes with his subs he just subbed out the tired players and replaced them this is where I think Southgate didn't really have the bottle to make these subs. Mancini had no problem subbing some of his best players to freshen up the team for extra time.

I think he's still afraid of the top teams maybe he knows we can't be a bit more open against them but we need to knock this back 3 stuff on the head and make ourselves much better in the midfield to try and get some periods of control in the game.

Can you really say our players are better? Certainly in the forward positions England have much better options but I'd argue they've got a better goalkeeper, defenders I'd say is even but in midfield they are much stronger than us. I think in terms of options it was pretty balanced the difference was Italy started this new style 3 years ago and they've really perfected it England since 2018 have tried 2 or 3 different systems and not really settled on one.
 
Yes still a minority but Sunday was a much larger minority than usual.
 
Maguire's dad was caught in some of the stampede to get in and suffered suspected broken ribs.

Security around Wembley for any games is going to be a lot more heavy handed as a result of this.
 
Some English fans are absolute animals. It is just a minority but it’s really hard to decipher what must be going through their heads to do some of the stuff that happened at Wembley. Yes a lot of it is booze filled but absolute no excuse, most people can still behave normal with a few beers in side them.

So proud of the team but absolutely ashamed of some of the English fan base.
 
Some English fans are absolute animals. It is just a minority but it’s really hard to decipher what must be going through their heads to do some of the stuff that happened at Wembley. Yes a lot of it is booze filled but absolute no excuse, most people can still behave normal with a few beers in side them.

So proud of the team but absolutely ashamed of some of the English fan base.

My old boss got his ticket for the champions league final at Wembley swiped out of his hand just outside the gate. He managed to run after them and get it back. It’s madness though what people will try
 

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