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England Squad for Germany and Brazil Friendlies

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by SuperRash, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Goalkeepers: Jack Butland, Joe Hart, Jordan Pickford

    Defenders: Ryan Bertrand, Gary Cahill, Joe Gomez, Phil Jones, Harry Maguire, Danny Rose (Tottenham), John Stones, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

    Midfielders: Dele Alli, Fabian Delph, Eric Dier, Jordan Henderson, Jesse Lingard, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Raheem Sterling, Harry Winks, Ashley Young

    Forwards: Tammy Abraham, Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Jamie Vardy

    Nice to see some young guys come in from the U21’s and the two friendlies vs Germany and Brazil will be a real test of where we are at.

    And hallelujah Oxlade-Chamberlain has finally been dropped after so many dross performances for club and country.
     
  2. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Smalling left out because Southgate wants defenders who can play out from defence so why is Cahill still in? If teams are picked in any way on form dropping Smalling after his best run of form in 2 years seems odd.

    Midfield still looks weak and our wide options are so weak.

    Not sure what Loftus-Cheek has done to get a call up and is there really any point in recalling Young at this stage.
     
  3. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Kane, Winks, Alli, Henderson, Delph and Sterling all withdrawn with injuries.

    Keane and Livermore been called up as replacements so far, guessing a couple of others will be called up as cover also.
     
  4. maxt7

    maxt7 Well-Known Member

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    just waiting by my phone for the call....
    Seriously how many of these are really injured? And how many just dont want to be around Southgate for a week?
     
  5. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Get Rashford out ASAP FFS.

    These friendlies really do my head in as they're clearly money making scams for the FA's as this always happens players will pull out with injuries so they become even more watered down friendlies. Why play two games if it was just 1 game and a bit of a training camp I bet most players would turn up. I get that the dates are there because the playoff games need to happen but those who've qualified should be smart and use the break to give players a rest, especially in England where we're about to enter the most brutal part of the season where there's no mid season break. Most of the club managers have given the guys who haven't been called up a weeks holiday to rest the legs.

    To be fair Alli & Henderson both missed club games at the weekend and Winks/Kane both went off but I bet Kane was taken off with a view of getting him withdrawn from the squad.
     
  6. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Yeah these mid season friendlies are just stupid IMO but I’ve never been one for friendlies, they just turn into a borefest because there are always so many withdrawals.

    I agree about Kane for sure, he’s just back from a little injury and think Poch wants him to have a little rest. Sterling probably wanted a rest too. I wonder what other replacements will come in? Guess we shall wait and see but could hasten a guess that AOC will be back in.

    Think Germany and Brazil are gonna wipe the floor with us in truth.
     
  7. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Must be hard for him to call on the guys who were dropped like Smalling, Ox, Defoe & Sturridge as he was quite public about that when he named his squad.

    I guess it'll be guys like Cleverley & maybe Townsend who've knocked around squad before but have been off the radar for a while could get call ups.

    Friendlies have a purpose and a place but these ones just feel like the FA should be clever and say we will only play 1 game but we expect you to turn up for the full week so we can train together and if it was up to me friendlies would be played around the country to give everyone a chance to watch the team play. Get them up to St James Park, Old Trafford, Villa Park, St Mary's etc to give the fans outside the M25 a chance to watch the team.
     
  8. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Yeah I agree they really need to play some friendlies in the grounds around the country. It’s not fair on fans up North who have to travel hundreds of miles to see their country.

    Yeah but I suppose Smalling, Sturridge etc are the next cabs off the rank so I would say they are the more likely to be the ones called up.

    Cleverley? Christ. That would just be an example of our lack of decent depth in midfield.
     
  9. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    We’ve dropped a long way but to be fair to Cleverley he’s playing well at Watford under Silva and would probably be getting touted for a call up if he wasn’t burdened by his past.

    Any Burnley players to call up?
     
  10. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Funny you should say that, Jack Cork is the only one called up so far. That was a bit of a surprise pick but he’s always been a good midfield talent and is doing well for Burnley so far this season.
     
  11. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Fair play to him been around a few clubs being a reliable player so earned his chance, feels like he will be a 1 cap wonder but who knows.

    I mean other names I’ve heard are Drinkwater & Shelvey.
     
  12. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Yeah Cork does have a 1 cap wonder feel about him but hell Livermore has a couple of caps so you never know.

    So line up something like that:

    Butland

    Stones - Jones - Cahill

    Walker - Dier - Loftus Cheek - Rose

    Lingard

    Vardy - Rashford
    Presuming Gareth will go 3-5-2 because of his lack of midfield options. That front three could potentially cause problems but overall we have a weak squad for these friendlies.

     
  13. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    He seems determined to go with a back 3 but you can almost guarantee Hart will start one of the games but you would assume it'll be those 3 to start same with the wing backs.

    He may need to start Cork as I'm not sure he'd see Loftus Cheek as playing that sort of position as he seems to play the more advanced role at Palace asking someone to make their debut out of position feels harsh especially for a young player. I think Lingard proves if you come in and have a good game that can keep you in the squad for a year as there's not exactly a big list of people looking to take your place. I'm surprised they haven't called up Grey from Leicester he's had a few good game recently.

    Vardy & Rashford on the counter could do some damage but that is such a weak team.
     
  14. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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  15. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    That is definitely an interesting read for sure. Out of those 33 you’d say only Gray and Davies have a genuine chance of making squads in the future - if everyone is fit that is. Obviously there is a chance others on the list could get in if we have another injury crisis. But yeah right now there is serious lack of genuine talent, obviously our youth teams are doing amazing things but for the next couple of major tournaments our options beyond our genuine stars like Kane, Alli and Rashford are pretty limited.
     
  16. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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  17. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Butland pulls out with injury.

    Dropping like flies.
     
  18. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Eric Dier confirmed as captain for tonight's game.

    Reports are Pickford, Loftus-Cheek & Abraham will all start tonight.
     
  19. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Thought we did ok. My opinion on the new starters

    Pickford made some good saves and his quick distribution was an interesting weapon even if it didn’t really create anything but I think he did enough to ask a serious question over Hart as the number 1. Might have to wait until after the World Cup to take it unless Hart makes mistakes but with Butland injured I’d say he’s moved up to number 2.

    Loftus-Cheek was given MOTM and he probably deserved it but needs to add the end product to the smart footwork he showed to create space.

    Abraham looked out of his depth I think not quite ready for this level but still plenty of time this season to keep learning at Swansea and maybe by the end of the season he will be ready. That said making your debut against Mats Hummels is not an easy start that’s probably as tough as it gets.

    Very annoyed to see Jones go off especially when you see his thigh heavily strapped up, you have to ask why is he playing in these games if he’s playing with an injury. Hopefully it’s not to serious but if he misses games for Utd Mourinho is going to be fuming.

    Dier playing forward passes was refreshing to see, thought Stones looked very assured in the back 3, trippier showed we have 2 good options at RB and Maguire looked happy bringing the ball out but he worries me defensively.

    On to Brazil

    Angus Gunn, Lewis Cook & Dominik Solanke have been called up to replace Butland & Jones.
     
  20. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Didn’t see the Germany game but sounds like we did okay. Loftus-Cheek seems to be getting some good reviews for his performance. I will probably catch the Brazil game so looking forward to seeing some young guys. Will be great for guys like Solanke and Cook being around the squad. It’s refreshing to see hungry young players being selected instead of going back to the older players who haven’t impressed on the International stage.
     
  21. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    It was one of those reasonably impressive games but we probably should've lost Germany wasted 3 or 4 one vs one chances, Pickford made good saves but you feel a ruthless side would really punish that and it should be a concern that we're giving up those sort of chances. Germany seemed happy to play it like a friendly they played a very attacking line up their centre mid was Gundogan and Ozil so the game was very open which allowed Loftus-Cheek a lot of space to play in.

    Apparently Southgate gets a lot of the younger players to train with the first team when they're at St George's Park so even if the players aren't with first team squads they've often invited to join in with senior groups in certain sessions which I think is a great idea, gives it more of a club feel and encourages young players to always join up as there's a chance of training with the first team.

    I still feels when it comes to it that the guys like Hart, Cahill & Henderson will be back in but after this world cup surely it's time for Hart & Cahill to be moved on as there are younger lads coming through who are showing they are of at least equal ability and deserve a chance. Yes they bring experience to squads but it's experience of failure so it's not like they can really impart wisdom on these young kids about keeping cool heads.
     
  22. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    England in 2017: A change will do you good - Football365

    I don't always buy into the just chucking the kids in idea but I think it's good to see the squad evolving into something new guys who've just consistently failed being moved out and younger players given chances. He's also shown that good form from senior players who've fallen out of the squads can be rewarded when he's bought guys like Defoe & Young in.
     
  23. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Reported line up

    Hart

    Maguire Stones Cahill

    Walker Dier Livermore Bertrand

    Loftus-Cheek

    Rashford Vardy

    I imagine that Mourinho won't be to happy with Rashford starting the 2nd game rather than the first game but I would imagine the guys who play for the clubs involved in CL will only play 60 minutes. I assume he'll probably give Solanke a run out at the end.

    Brazil front 3 of Jesus, Neymar & Coutinho should provide a real test of how good this new system is. I think the back 3 makes sense because we don't really have any world class wingers/wide forwards so it utilises the good full back options we do have and it gives Stones better protection at CB.
     
  24. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Got a funny feeling we may sneak this, don’t know why I have this feeling but this Brazil defence can still be got at. Although they are not as fragile as when they have David Luiz in the team. It kind of how we cope with their front three, they have the potential to run amok so how our guys deal with them will be key.
     
  25. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he's playing pretty sure the back 4 is Dani Alves Tiago Silva Marquinos Marcelo with Casemiro sitting in front also the keeper is pretty handy so they're not as bad at the back as you might assume. I think Thiago Silva isn't the great player he once was but Marquinos has kicked on a lot and 3 of their back 4 play together at club level.
     
  26. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    Dier took kick off.

    Southgate out
     
  27. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    0-0 again

    Defended well didn’t give Brazil the chances Germany had but equally looked more toothless going forward. With Lallana, Alli, Sterling & Kane back we might have a greater threat going forward but this 3-4-1-2 system I think can work against better sides and the 2 games have been good practise even with the injuries.

    Brazil look a very good side but just didn’t really seem on it up front tonight.
     
  28. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    I hear Gomez was very impressive last night?

    I didn’t watch either game but two 0-0’s isn’t too shabby especially with a depleted squad. I kind of like what Southgate is doing by promoting youth. I just hope he maintains this mantra because to be honest it’s brought a freshness to the squad.
     
  29. maxt7

    maxt7 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo!

    I've been banging the give youth a chance drum for ages and it's refreshing to see how well players like Ruben Loftus cheek and Gomez did. But lets not forget that we had 6/7 people pull out before hand. Meaning we wouldn't have seen these 2 man of the match displays if everyone was fit. So i'm just holding back on the Southgate is a god talk at the minute. The biggest question is will he stick to these young players especially these two, when the next internationals roll in? or will he revert to the Smalling's Henderson's Drinkwaters that he originally wanted to play? I hope the former because we've got talented youngsters coming through and its more exciting to see the youngsters play then players just going through the motions.
     
  30. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Let’s hope he sticks with youth. I never want to see Henderson grace an England shirt again, the guy has no discernible qualities. Obviously it’ll happen but hope he’s not a guaranteed starter! Was nice to see Young in an England shirt again, he’s not the flashiest of players and has never been my favourite player but he’s a trier and will always give his best for us, so this was good reward.
     
  31. maxt7

    maxt7 Well-Known Member

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    100% agree. If i had it my way Henderson wouldn't be able to even where an England shirt at home in front of his telly. The game's moved on now. His not quick enough or athletic enough or dynamic enough to play center midfield anymore. He poses like a quarterback in front of a defence but only passes it backwards or side wards or into the stands. RLC did more in 1 game then Henderson has done in his 30 odd caps.
     
  32. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I watched the game not paying full attention and Gomez didn't really stand out I felt in both games Stones was our best defender I think this season he's really coming of age. He's defending like a proper defender should but when he does decide he can play he's playing in the right areas, he also takes responsibility and it's clear his confidence on the ball spreads to others.

    I think it's good that Gomez & Maguire are putting pressure on more senior players like Cahill & Smalling who've had plenty of chances and not really impressed but for Gomez he needs to make sure he stays in the Liverpool team. With Clyne injured he's got a chance to get plenty of games at Right Back and possibly even centre back if Klopp puts faith in him and at right back Liverpool also have Alexander-Arnold who's impressing a lot this season but Walker & Trippier probably have the 2 RB spots nailed down at the moment. I think if he's playing a back 3 he needs to take 5 centre backs I think 3 are pretty nailed on Stones, Jones & Cahill will go which leaves 2 spots up for grabs.

    If we got with this system we need 4 proper centre mids which doesn't include guys like Alli, Loftus-Cheek, Lallana as these are attacking players so I'd say right now the 4 holding those spots are Dier, Winks, Henderson & Livermore (in that order). The guys fighting to take those spots off them are Drinkwater, Carroll (Swansea), Cork, Wilshere & Chalobah. People like Cleverley, Cook (Bournemouth) & Foden (Man City) could make an impact if Cleverley keeps up his club form and the 2 young kids can get regular games at their clubs and impress. Another guy to add would be Tom Davies from Everton who seems to be getting more game time now Koeman is gone. Things change so quickly in football though 3 months ago Winks wasn't even a contender now he's probably a starter because he's played well for Spurs and done well in a few England games.

    Right now I think England have 2 nailed on starters in Stones & Kane. I think Alli will come under pressure once Lallana & Barkley are fit as Sterling will be looking at that central position and so will Loftus-Cheek.

    I thought Vardy looked good in both games obviously teams are terrified of his speed in behind and with Kane up alongside him who likes to drop off they could be a good partnership with Alli joining in as well we could actually carry a bit of a counter attack threat.

    The good thing for Southgate is if he sticks with this back 3 right now he's got guys playing that system at Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal & Utd on a regular basis, City dip in and out of it the only big 6 side not using it are Liverpool. For once a manager actually seems to be picking a system that suits his players and he's also not cowering to the media over who he picks, he pretty much forced Rooney into retirement and he stood his ground over Wilshere.
     
  33. maxt7

    maxt7 Well-Known Member

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    The system works and the players look comfortable in it, which isn't something we've been able to say too often in the past with England. I prefer to push one of those center mids up closer to the 2 strikers then they played against Brazil. But its understandable given who we played that we didn't go too attacking. Kane, Rashford, with Alli, Loftus-Cheek and Dier behind could work. RLC and Alli could rotate in that position behind the strikers. On the flip side of that I think RLC is more then able to handle himself in a center mid role as well. His strong and physical and his got a real energy about him that he would need in there. Dier can be the shield that mops up.

    I thought that Stones was good but Gomez edged it out of the two. That Brazilian front 3 with all that movement and pace that they have, plus full backs bombing on out wide, didn't faze him. Gomez was always in control, and he reads the game so well. So we've got Jones, Stones, Maguire, Gomez and Dier dropping back potentially gives you 5 center backs to play in that back 3. So Smalling and Cahill can be sacked off immediately. Tripper and Walker right backs is fine. Then Rose and either Bertrand maybe Young maybe even Shaw. Then i'd take Winks, Chalobah, Drinkwater (if he can be bothered) to cover Alli, RLC and Dier. Vardy and a second striker to cover up top. Plus 3 Keepers. Leaves 4 places up for grabs in my imaginary squad.
     
  34. jsp

    jsp Well-Known Member

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    I think the defence looks good because it’s protected by 2 defensive minded centre mids against good opposition and Winks gives you more of a playmaker type than Livermore did. like you say the forward line maybe needs some work you could play Kane up top alone with Alli/RLC/Sterling/Lallana as 2 number 10s supporting him or play 1 of them and have 2 strikers. If Alli or RLC can play deeper at their club and show their competence then it gives us more options but to me they look like players you want up with the strikers not battling in midfield.

    I don’t think we should take utility players in a squad having guys who can cover extra positions helps.
     
  35. SuperRash

    SuperRash Moderator

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    Sounds like you’re on the same lines as the squad I would pick. The likes of Henderson, Smalling, Cahill, AOC, Walcott etc have had their chance and probably time to step aside. I still think Wilshere can play his way in though, injuries permitting (obviously!). There is obviously a long time before the WC, someone like Shaw could still play his way in. So it’s hard to predict a squad right now because there is always a wildcard, such as Walcott and Rashford in previous tournaments.
     

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