Donny van de Beek | Match Discussion thread 2020/21

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It is clear that DVB is to Ole what Fred was to Jose. Both are very strange scenario's which appear to lack any logic other than the managers didn't actually want them players.
I recall Jose saying he couldn't play Fred because he didn't get his CB, he clearly saw Fred as a maurading midfielder as opposed to a defensive one. Which kind of suggests he didn't know his player and Ole has been more adept in knowing his strengths as Fred has in the main been very good at the combative stuff, but couldn't hit a donkeys arse with a banjo or string a decent pass (other than the odd occasion) when he gets within 22 yrd or more of the opponents goal.
You really do feel for DVB though, he seems like a real genuine character and professional but he just hasn't been afforded enough opportunity to make his mark with us. Whatever happens with him, he can never be considered a flop at United in the current circumstances and if he goes I am sure it will be with the very best wishes of all of us.
Now that all that is said, I can feel a hat trick against Milan coming up :p
 
First start in a while so reluctant to be overly critical but that was pretty much a standard performance from Van de Beek. He has minimal influence on proceedings.
 
There was an incident in the first half when he took a pass from Fred and could have played a five yard pass back to him running forward but he chose to go backwards. Maybe he was amazed Fred had found him
 
Hasn’t played in ages so hard to be to critical but he just looks lost on the pitch whenever he plays.
 
MoTD pointing out some good movement he did when he came on.
Ole said he's banged in some belters in training and has come back with a spring in his step after scoring for Holland
 
Interested to see if he starts vs Granada mid-week.

Utd need everyone in form to not only lock down second spot in the league but also win the Europa league.

If this lad can find a way of contributing it’ll be a huge boost to the squad.
 
Positive impact today got an assist but also provided some nice touches and neat footwork.
 
More assists and goals than Thiago apparantly
 
Got to love a totally pointless stat.

Thiago has never been a player who gets a lot of goals and assists because he tends to be more involved in the build up that the final moments of a goal.
 
What do we think the future holds for DVB? I cannot imagine he will suddenly be thrust into the starting line up next season. Just seems he could be another 5 minute man next year which would be a shame.

I hope he can have an awesome Euro’s and come back confident and ready to fight for his place.
 
SuperRash said:
What do we think the future holds for DVB? I cannot imagine he will suddenly be thrust into the starting line up next season. Just seems he could be another 5 minute man next year which would be a shame.

I hope he can have an awesome Euro’s and come back confident and ready to fight for his place.
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Would it be though? I mean, for his sake obviously he would’ve thought that things would’ve been different here and he’d have expected to hit the ground running in the same way he left Ajax, but we’ve seen this before with Kagawa/Veron/Mkhitaryan and to some extent Sanchez. Players who were in the right situation to shine but couldn’t reproduce the same magic elsewhere. Cards on the table, I’m a bit jaded against VdB bc of the ‘Ole is a *insert favourite pejorative here* crowd abusing the manager every time he doesn’t play, but he just seems like a square peg in a round hole. Time will tell how round that hole is, but I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it turns out that Ajax cashed in at the exact right moment.
 
VDB needs pass-and-move players around him, like first touch passing. He functions in a different system than the one we have been using, maybe we've never been adherents to that style. Unless we change the James, McTominay, Fred, Matic factors, VDB will have no place in the team next season either. Bruno seems more comfortable with that style than Pogba. Pogba likes to hold onto the ball and bring players to him to free up teammates. If Pogba goes and another quick tempo one-touch players is brought in, VDB would be useful.
 
Cosmic Slop said:
VDB needs pass-and-move players around him, like first touch passing. He functions in a different system than the one we have been using, maybe we've never been adherents to that style. Unless we change the James, McTominay, Fred, Matic factors, VDB will have no place in the team next season either. Bruno seems more comfortable with that style than Pogba. Pogba likes to hold onto the ball and bring players to him to free up teammates. If Pogba goes and another quick tempo one-touch players is brought in, VDB would be useful.
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I would be happy to see DVB replace James, McTomminay, Fred and Matic. The lad is full of class, as Matic used to be, but carrying 2nd raters, will never win u trophies!
 
Good player just don't think he fits the way we play not because he's a bad player he clearly isn't it just doesn't fit with Utd's style. He seems to suit a slower passing style of game whereas Utd are much more direct when they attack looking to move the ball quickly into players in space.

It might be next season things are different but it's hard seeing him ever fitting in a system with Bruno as that number 10 point because VDB isn't going to work in a 2 man midfield and he's never going to move Bruno from the 10. He's a 4-3-3 man not a 4-2-3-1 so unless Ole is thinking of changing the system and putting more defensive responsibility on Bruno or moving him wide it's hard to see Donny ever fitting into this team.

I personally think Utd would be wise to cash in if they can get the money back and move on.
 
In retrospect VDB was a bizarre purchase because it was (or should have been) clear he didn't fit in the current side, and if they weren't going to bring in the players so he'd complement them, why buy him? VDB is the opposite of a player who needs a slow passing system. Look at any of the Ajax games. They move the ball with one touch passing, that was their secret. Even now, when VDB plays he almost always plays a pass first time, but the players around him aren't moving fast enough or they are not advancing to take advantage of an immediate return pass.
 
I think they wanted a backup for Bruno and Pogba they hoped VDB could be both but reality is he’s neither.

Bruno barely missing a game and a few dodgy games early on in the centre of midfield I think marked his card and all the noise from around him probably didn’t help.

Utd needed a midfielder in the summer and I think they took a chance on VDB as he was supposed to be going to Madrid. Maybe gambled a bit that he could adapt to the role and sadly he hasn’t.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
I missed the game. How did he play?
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A lot of people were peripheral in the first half, VDB and Fred chief amongst them. I think VDB was okay. He's not a flashy player, he's a support player who depends on those around him making something happen. He gets the ball and gives it to whoever has something on, he's not great at creating on his own. We looked slow, in general. Shaw, Pogba, Fred, nobody was really hustling, with maybe Cavani and Bruno being the exceptions. Ten or so minutes in and Fred got fouled or committed a foul, and I was surprised he was playing. It was like his first contribution, 10 minutes in. In general our team treated it like it was already decided. They came close to throwing it away. Cavani and Bruno were class. Everyone else looked lacking in fitness or confidence or skill (or all three). VDB seems to play more zonal and is not in the right place soon enough or often enough for results, unlike Bruno. I think VDB linked well with Burno and Cavani, but it was workmanlike, nothing flashy.
 
Cosmic Slop said:
A lot of people were peripheral in the first half, VDB and Fred chief amongst them. I think VDB was okay. He's not a flashy player, he's a support player who depends on those around him making something happen. He gets the ball and gives it to whoever has something on, he's not great at creating on his own. We looked slow, in general. Shaw, Pogba, Fred, nobody was really hustling, with maybe Cavani and Bruno being the exceptions. Ten or so minutes in and Fred got fouled or committed a foul, and I was surprised he was playing. It was like his first contribution, 10 minutes in. In general our team treated it like it was already decided. They came close to throwing it away. Cavani and Bruno were class. Everyone else looked lacking in fitness or confidence or skill (or all three). VDB seems to play more zonal and is not in the right place soon enough or often enough for results, unlike Bruno. I think VDB linked well with Burno and Cavani, but it was workmanlike, nothing flashy.
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Did u miss the game as well ?
 
Was a pretty disorganised performance from the whole team De Gea and Cavani aside not sure anyone can say they had a good game we were really sloppy and poor from kick off to the final minute.

Played largely from the left side of the 3 and struggled to be honest had a few nice moves but his lack of speed to carry the ball created a problem when he gets on the ball he kind of stands still where the rest of our player look to move forward. It's not his position so not going to hammer him over it.

Unfair to judge him on last night but he didn't really do anything that made you think I can see where he fits in this team on a regular basis looks very much a square peg in a round hole at the moment. Doesn't make him a bad player just doesn't feel like it's going to work for him here.
 
Donny vdB, is a very talented young player. Think he's suffering from the same symptoms as Memphis, nerves at joining a major club
 
Macariman said:
Donny vdB, is a very talented young player. Think he's suffering from the same symptoms as Memphis, nerves at joining a major club
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I don't think it's that he just isn't the right player for our system there's no pressure on him at Utd as the grounds are empty.

Memphis I just don't think was good enough was used to pushing a load of kids around in Holland came to the prem and all the full backs were as strong and as quick as him and he couldn't work it out.
 
jsp said:
I don't think it's that he just isn't the right player for our system there's no pressure on him at Utd as the grounds are empty.

Memphis I just don't think was good enough was used to pushing a load of kids around in Holland came to the prem and all the full backs were as strong and as quick as him and he couldn't work it out.
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Strange why Barca are now so desperate to sign him. Very talented player, 15 goals from 22 games this season. Good enough? No I suppose Dan James has showed him the way a Utd man is supposed to play on the wing?
jsp said:
I don't think it's that he just isn't the right player for our system there's no pressure on him at Utd as the grounds are empty.

Memphis I just don't think was good enough was used to pushing a load of kids around in Holland came to the prem and all the full backs were as strong and as quick as him and he couldn't
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Macariman said:
Strange why Barca are now so desperate to sign him. Very talented player, 15 goals from 22 games this season. Good enough? No I suppose Dan James has showed him the way a Utd man is supposed to play on the wing?
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He's reinvented himself as a decent centre forward rather than a winger but Barca are only really sniffing because he's on a free this summer and they are broke, my guess is they see him more as a squad player than a nailed on starter. If he was under contract and Lyon were asking for a fee I don't think they'd be showing much interest in him they weren't even prepared to pay 20m to take him last summer according to some reports.

There's also the good relationship with Koeman who was his national team coach if Koeman is binned at the end of the season I don't see them signing Memphis.

I think the move to Utd came for him at a bad time he probably wasn't ready for it and he walked into a mess of a club, had a tough start and never really got it going again but it's good that he's got back on track at Lyon.
 
jsp said:
He's reinvented himself as a decent centre forward rather than a winger but Barca are only really sniffing because he's on a free this summer and they are broke, my guess is they see him more as a squad player than a nailed on starter. If he was under contract and Lyon were asking for a fee I don't think they'd be showing much interest in him they weren't even prepared to pay 20m to take him last summer according to some reports.

There's also the good relationship with Koeman who was his national team coach if Koeman is binned at the end of the season I don't see them signing Memphis.

I think the move to Utd came for him at a bad time he probably wasn't ready for it and he walked into a mess of a club, had a tough start and never really got it going again but it's good that he's got back on track at Lyon.
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Memphis is a very good football player, timing coming to OT, many have experienced that. If things are that bad at a club, then they sign you to strengthen and improve things as they are. Donny was brought in at a time when improvement was necessary. It seems he doesn't fit into Ole's overall plan. If so, why was.he signed? Ipso facto, he's got to be sold!
 
Macariman said:
Memphis is a very good football player, timing coming to OT, many have experienced that. If things are that bad at a club, then they sign you to strengthen and improve things as they are. Donny was brought in at a time when improvement was necessary. It seems he doesn't fit into Ole's overall plan. If so, why was.he signed? Ipso facto, he's got to be sold!
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I think the club took a gamble on Donny maybe felt that he'd be able to play in a midfield 2 to a higher level than he actually can but again he's not had much of a chance in that position either.

My guess was they saw him as a potential Pogba replacement so got him in to learn the ropes but he's just never really got going.

Ajax dropped the price on him because of Covid and I think we rolled the dice on him it hasn't worked yet and it probably wont he is one who we might be able to sell and actually get a decent fee for this summer.

To me he'll never fit in the same team as Bruno so you either keep him and rotate them which doesn't suit Bruno or you accept VDB is going to be a very expensive sub just in case Bruno was injured.
 
There are plenty of players who failed to deliver after moving from the Dutch league on the back of a stellar season. Alphonso Alves anyone?

My worry is that VdB was purchased to replace Pogba, because he hasn't shown anything in a red shirt to suggest that will go well. I get not fitting a system or being played out of position, and it might explain why he's so slow on the ball. If he's not used sure where his teammates are, he's going to need that extra second to pick them out, but he's had long enough where that shouldn't be as much of an issue now. Also, it doesn't mean he should be under or over hitting passes like he was yesterday.
 
I also think VdS facilitated a lot of the technicalities of the transfer which meant Ed was actually able to get this one over the line, and the convenience factor played a part.
 
I doubt VDS made it easier for Utd to get him he acts on behalf of Ajax but reality was VDB was going to Madrid until Covid hit Ajax needed to sell him but Madrid decided to make no signings this summer Utd had been interested previously and needed a midfielder.

To me it's one of those stars aligning moments and it looked a good deal for all parties but it just hasn't worked out in reality for us or Donny.

Maybe next season if he stays more time on the training pitch with his team mates and coaches might help him learn the role they need him to play.

If Utd did sign a really top class holding midfield player who can almost be the 1 man cover then maybe you could fit VDB and Bruno into the same midfield 3 but even that requires Bruno to start doing more defending. Do you really want to take a player like that further away from the opponents goal?

To me it's simple if the offer came in the summer that meant we got our money back I'd probably take it and put that money into other parts of the team where we are a bit short of quality.
 
jsp said:
I doubt VDS made it easier for Utd to get him he acts on behalf of Ajax but reality was VDB was going to Madrid until Covid hit Ajax needed to sell him but Madrid decided to make no signings this summer Utd had been interested previously and needed a midfielder.

To me it's one of those stars aligning moments and it looked a good deal for all parties but it just hasn't worked out in reality for us or Donny.

Maybe next season if he stays more time on the training pitch with his team mates and coaches might help him learn the role they need him to play.

If Utd did sign a really top class holding midfield player who can almost be the 1 man cover then maybe you could fit VDB and Bruno into the same midfield 3 but even that requires Bruno to start doing more defending. Do you really want to take a player like that further away from the opponents goal?

To me it's simple if the offer came in the summer that meant we got our money back I'd probably take it and put that money into other parts of the team where we are a bit short of quality.
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Have we ever given up that quickly on a player? Even Fred came good after enough games.
 
Has Fred come good then?

I'd give Donny another season. Specially if Pogba is off.

Though I did see the other day our win percentage is better with Pogba out of the team. Stats eh?
 
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