Director of Football set to be appointed

boothstownred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
4,367
#3
Hopefully this is the start of getting a clear strategy for the future. Fergie and gill did it all themselves but I think they were the last of their type.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#4
Neville was talking in Dublin last week basically said post takeover Woodward ran the business side and Gill handled the football side with Fergie. Post Fergie Woodward has had to take it all on and it hasn’t worked so hopefully they’ve recognised the need to change.

The big problem is appointing a director of football when you already have a manager in place rarely works.

We need to make sure we appoint a director of football who fits the philosophy of what we want Man Utd to be not someone who fits with Mourinho.
 

Red Warrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
1,682
Age
46
#5
If reports are to be believed Jose gave a list of players in that were all 29/30+ and the board said no them all. The flaw in this story is that Jose handed in his list at the end of the season so therefore a compromise would have been reached at some point. Woodward didnt look at Jose's list 2 days before the window closed when it was all too late.

I really can't see Jose happy having someone pick his players. I think this transfer window was the start of the end, the board haven't backed him and now they are bringing in a Director of Football in.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#6
I think it becomes more of a committee the idea is you have a chief exec, director of football and your head coach working together to identify the weaknesses and improve the squad while protecting the club financially. So head coach says I need a better left back who can do this this and this the director of football then gets his scouts to put together a list of players and reports back right these are the ones we think we can get lets agree who we go for. Also, he'd then be working on deals to get rid of the left back we no longer need for the best price possible.

The outs is arguably more of a problem than the ins right now Utd can just throw a bit more money around to get a player in if they really want but getting guys to leave has become a major problem a director of football should help with that.

I don't think for one minute his list was ignored but it sounds like there was very little communication over it a) before it was submitted and b) during the summer.

If a director of football comes in I think Mourinho will be gone within 12 months simply because this is what always seems to happen the director of football will want his guy in charge not someone he inherited.
 
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
5,173
#7
I seriously doubt a transfer wish list could have been ignored. My take on this window is a large amount of money was put aside for Gareth Bale and had Zidane stayed on we would have signed him. As it was, it never happened and Ronaldo left, so no Bale. I feel right wing is a much bigger problem position than centre back. It seems bizarre to me that we didn't get an upgrade on our fullbacks - although perhaps we are taking a long term view on it and giving Shaw one last chance at left back this season, with Dalot to come through at right back.
Also, Lee O'Connor, Ethan Laird and Brandon Williams are 3 of the best prospects at the club therefore we may have them in mind.

I'm content with our centre back options but can see us bidding for Alderweireld in January - a la Sanchez last year - with 6 months left on his deal his fee should be minimal.

Back to the point of a Director of Football - I do like the idea and it protects our long term interests, but as alluded to here, I can't see Mourinho being pleased. A big factor of Mourinho's success at the clubs he's been at has been the signings he's made - particularly at Inter.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
2,113
Age
30
#9
Would be a solid appointment in my eyes. VDS was loved when he was here and has some experience with a similar role at Ajax.

He would fit the criteria of someone we need and we do need someone to just come in and add some stability. Our spending has been erratic at best over previous years so a DOF would be good for us.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#11
I love VDS but his experience at Ajax was in the role of marketing director and subsequently CEO he's not been a DOF I'd love ex players to come back and become part of something but the right players need to be put in the right places. Basically he's been playing the role of Ed Woodward at Ajax.

Considering this is the first person to be given that role and they need to put in place the structure we need someone with a lot of experience in that structure. Our ex chief scout has just joined Zenit as sporting director maybe they should have looked at appointing him but really they need to be puttng big money into attracting someone who's worked at clubs who run this model or even better are doing this role currently.

Get it setup and maybe try to groom an ex player who's retired to take it over if they decide they want to go into that side of things after retirement.
 

JSNFRMN

Moderator
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
21,532
Age
27
Location
Wales
#12
Txiki Begiristain, City’s director of football, works closely with Pep Guardiola and the owners made the appointments knowing their compatibility. All the signings bear Guardiola’s hallmark, similarly at Anfield, where Jürgen Klopp shapes recruitment strategy with Michael Edwards, the sporting director.

Significantly, all of these heavyweight conduits possess a footballing background; Begiristain most eye-catchingly with Real Sociedad, Barcelona and Spain and even Edwards as a reserve at Peterborough United before excelling at scouting with Portsmouth, Tottenham Hotspur and Liverpool. Mike Gordon, the Fenway Sports Group president, plays an important role in negotiating and closing deals at Liverpool. “We like working together — Mike Gordon, Michael Edwards and myself,” Klopp told the Liverpool Echo. “It’s a really healthy relationship.” United lack that.
That's from Henry Winter's latest article on The Times website.

City's is a big name but Liverpool's has arguably done a better job. I've seen a lot of people say Monchi from Roma, and he's got a big reputation but he spent a long time at Sevilla and has only just joined Roma, he's a loyal man and I can't see him coming.

Personally i'd like to see someone with connections to the club. Edwin may do the job of Woodward at Ajax but he's a football man and knows the club well. We've lost our identity as a club, we've sold out, become too big. We need someone who will restore those traditions. Youth, attacking football, "we make stars, we don't buy them", the list of things goes on and on. At the moment, we have different types of managers coming in; not really sure what Moyes is, Van Gaal was possession, Mourinho hasn't been as defensive as some say but he's a pragmatist and not attacking. A sporting director needs to set the philosophy and recruit managers and players that fit. It doesn't have to be a big name.
 

JSNFRMN

Moderator
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
21,532
Age
27
Location
Wales
#13

Red Warrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
1,682
Age
46
#14
I saw a lot of Ajax supporters wanting rid of Van Der Sar. Seems like they don't like what he's been doing there. Not sure on details
 

JSNFRMN

Moderator
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
21,532
Age
27
Location
Wales
#15
Mostly guessing here but I believe that it won’t just be the one person coming in, there will be a restructure in how the football side of the club is run, much like how the academy was restructured a couple of years ago. The training ground is currently undergoing work but once completed... Sporting director, a head of recruitment and other various positions will be filled. The board has recognised a need to modernise the club, some very interesting developments likely to come in the next 12 months.

Mourinho comments the other night suggest he knows about these plans and I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a 4th year regardless of how this year goes while a succession plan is formed by these people and the board. And perhaps the whole point of giving him a 4th year was possibly due to the need for stability during these changes.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#16
Gary Neville urges Ed Woodward to adopt modern boardroom strategy at Man Utd

Neville historically has been very fond of the role of the manager and him having full control but even he now realises the reason clubs have adopted the strategy because the long term manager vision just doesn't work anymore.

I'm surprised in 5 years this hasn't already started happening the only reasons I can think for it are Woodward's ego won't allow him to let go of that or the club are trying to do it on the cheap as adding an expensive recruitment department is another running cost my argument for that would be if done correctly they'll save us money of transfer fees, agent fees and wages in the long run.
 

Imat1983

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
106
Age
35
#17
Gary Neville urges Ed Woodward to adopt modern boardroom strategy at Man Utd

Neville historically has been very fond of the role of the manager and him having full control but even he now realises the reason clubs have adopted the strategy because the long term manager vision just doesn't work anymore.

I'm surprised in 5 years this hasn't already started happening the only reasons I can think for it are Woodward's ego won't allow him to let go of that or the club are trying to do it on the cheap as adding an expensive recruitment department is another running cost my argument for that would be if done correctly they'll save us money of transfer fees, agent fees and wages in the long run.
I think Woodward is not as powerful as people think, he is a Glazer employee but he has good strategic intentions. I think overally we all underestimated the damage done to the side between the Fergie end days, the Moyes and Van Gaal disasters and it has taken a brutally honest Mourinho and an all conquering City side to awaken us as to how far we actually are. So steps are being taken because we have seen that relying on just two men - the football man and the money man is not enough because for all the money we have spent since 2014 we have seen little in the way of results and stability. Purely speculating this could be the reason why all the big money moves were vetoed in the summer in a 'lets first get our house in order before throwing good money after bad' kind of situation.
 

Imat1983

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
106
Age
35
#18
I believe in making this decision the club is already looking past Jose and its actually a vote of no confidence in his ability to build this club on the football side. I don't think the Glazers didn't have say 200m pounds set aside but that they did and didn't agree that the fees quoted for the players represented any sort of value, remember they are not new to sports management and would have a rough idea on how things ought to work. For example, to Mourinho buying Willian and Alderweireld would have given him the balance he needed to his side over the next couple of years and typically the board would agree if we were being quoted a combined fee of 60m - 70m but to be quoted double that would have been a deal breaker. Now consider this in the context of us having to write off a significant chuck of Van Gaal's investment, of Mourinho not trusting the CBs he signed himself and the money spent on fees over the last few years its easy to see why the club is considering appointing a Technical Director.
All along we looked at transfers as the magic pill to get us out of this rut but spending with no vision is just as bad as not spending at all. Hopefully this guy if he comes in is one who has an the skillset to craft a football vision for the side, identify the talent (playing and coaching) needed to achieve that and have the negotiating and contacts to execute that mandate. Ideally the guy comes in by January and would have four months to lay the ground work for the summer recruitment drive.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#19
I think Woodward is not as powerful as people think, he is a Glazer employee but he has good strategic intentions. I think overally we all underestimated the damage done to the side between the Fergie end days, the Moyes and Van Gaal disasters and it has taken a brutally honest Mourinho and an all conquering City side to awaken us as to how far we actually are. So steps are being taken because we have seen that relying on just two men - the football man and the money man is not enough because for all the money we have spent since 2014 we have seen little in the way of results and stability. Purely speculating this could be the reason why all the big money moves were vetoed in the summer in a 'lets first get our house in order before throwing good money after bad' kind of situation.
I think the Glazers have put him in charge they don’t know anything about football they trust him as he’s there guy but if they’re smart they’ll be losing patience as the clubs transfer spending and wage bill is out of control and has been from the moment he arrived.

City started planning for Pep 2 years before they got him signing players that he would like to work with either directed by Pep or more likely their directors knowing what he likes and buying what they think he’d want. We’re Utd doing the same under LVG but it was clear that we weren’t in a position to attract Pep when it became obvious he was leaving Bayern. When we realised LVG had to go as he couldn’t get us in CL rather than attract a modern coach who likes possession football we went for the complete opposite making the last 2 years totally pointless.

Whoever are making the football decision currently at Utd aren’t up to scratch and that needs to change people who can make good decisions at board level are required or a manager who they trust 100% and will back every decision he makes.
 

JSNFRMN

Moderator
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
21,532
Age
27
Location
Wales
#20
Director of football, Sporting/Technical Director whatever it’s going to be. I think it’s something that is needed but it sounds as though Woodward will still be heavily involved and the person appointed will serve as a go between rather than take charge of the football side of things completely while Woodward can just be the businessman he is and stop pretending he’s playing football manager. The addition might improve things but I think Woodward needs to go more than anyone. In the 5 years he’s been in the job, he’s done some good but it’s mostly been eclipsed by bad and I think that’s proven by how much he is spoken about. His constant briefing to the media is a big issue. The way he sacked Van Gaal was totally disrespectful as was the way he told some players they were no longer wanted at the club.

The club is a laughing stock right now and as much as I think it’s time for Mourinho to move on, that isn’t down to him, the bigger issue is what is above him. We’ll continue going around in circles until that top level changes I feel.
 

Red Warrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
1,682
Age
46
#21
And that isn't going to happen while Woodward is making millions for the Glazers! Consortium buy out anyone?
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#23
Director of football, Sporting/Technical Director whatever it’s going to be. I think it’s something that is needed but it sounds as though Woodward will still be heavily involved and the person appointed will serve as a go between rather than take charge of the football side of things completely while Woodward can just be the businessman he is and stop pretending he’s playing football manager. The addition might improve things but I think Woodward needs to go more than anyone. In the 5 years he’s been in the job, he’s done some good but it’s mostly been eclipsed by bad and I think that’s proven by how much he is spoken about. His constant briefing to the media is a big issue. The way he sacked Van Gaal was totally disrespectful as was the way he told some players they were no longer wanted at the club.

The club is a laughing stock right now and as much as I think it’s time for Mourinho to move on, that isn’t down to him, the bigger issue is what is above him. We’ll continue going around in circles until that top level changes I feel.
Seems that is the way it is going to be someone to advise rather than take control but it's a step in the right direction as long as we make the right appointment who can give good advise. If they want to do this you wonder why they didn't offer this role to that chief scout who's just left for Zenit to be their director of football... for all we know they did and he turned it down. If he can help the board make better decisions when it comes to appointing managers and players and getting value for money out of the £600m the club generates every year in revenue then I'm all for it.

The only disrespectful thing Woodward did with Van Gaal was not sack him in January that was the point where I knew the club still wasn't ready to make big football decisions as they had no contingency plan because they knew if they told LVG he was going to be let go in the summer he'd of just walked away and left them with no one. The club failed to get CL football it's clear you do that you get sacked at Utd it's the minimum expectation so if you fail to hit that you better have a damn good reason otherwise it's curtains.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#27
Must be a patch somewhere for them on that new kit football kits will look like formula one cars soon.
 

JSNFRMN

Moderator
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
21,532
Age
27
Location
Wales
#29
Just FYI if anyone thought otherwise, I didn't post that as I thought it was impressive, saw a takeover was mentioned above so posted to point out how difficult that would be. Club is valued at around $4bn now. Only hope is for them to want to sell up at a cut price which seems unlikely given how much they're making out of the club.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
6,715
#30
Can’t see them ever selling it they’re more likely to borrow against the club in future or sell more shares if they ever need to generate money for other projects outside of Utd.

My guess is the reason the board/owners want a director of football model is the net investment each summer needs reducing as it’s pushing debt up as the money the club has been spending on transfers will have been borrowed from banks where required.
 
Top