Declan Rice

jsp

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It certainly seems a link that isn’t going away.

I like him but not tested at the very top level and we will be paying a big premium like we did for AWB and Maguire.

Would lingard want to join West Ham if he knew Rice was leaving?
 

Mr C

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I'd probably say 60 myself. But if we have a chance and the money I probably would
 

jsp

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Apparently his preference is Chelsea was in their academy as a kid and is best mates with Mason Mount.

Can’t see anyone paying anything close to that figure if they are serious about that price then he will be staying at West Ham.
 

mitchmouse

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He look highly disciplined for England agains Croatia. Not inspiring but did he job of the two we now have doing it (Mcfred)
 

mitchmouse

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It certainly seems a link that isn’t going away.

I like him but not tested at the very top level and we will be paying a big premium like we did for AWB and Maguire.

Would lingard want to join West Ham if he knew Rice was leaving?
The Sun (yes, so probably made up) saying Jesse wants to stay at OT
 

jsp

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I had seen that reported but Utd need to tell him to move on.

He was watching the game yesterday in an England shirt with Rice on the back.

Did see another report saying Rice will probably stay at West Ham for another year as the club will price him out of a move still got years on his deal.
 

RichH2016

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Did see another report saying Rice will probably stay at West Ham for another year as the club will price him out of a move still got years on his deal.
I mean I'm not quite sure why any team would pay big money to sign him. I've not seen a ton of him but what I've seen I think he looks a good DM but certainly not world class. He's not worth the sums of money being reported by a long shot.
 

Mr C

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He's a really good player, the extra bucks are because he's English and West Ham have him on a good contract.

I wouldn't be paying 65m for him though, 40 - 50m. I'm not sure he's mobile enough to play with Pogba. But is there a Kante mk2 anywhere?

So far, in the two games, I have preferred the look of Philips.
 

jsp

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I mean I'm not quite sure why any team would pay big money to sign him. I've not seen a ton of him but what I've seen I think he looks a good DM but certainly not world class. He's not worth the sums of money being reported by a long shot.

Problem is until you put the guy into the CL games and really see how he copes against the very best it's hard to say just how good he is but I like him but I also think the hype around him is a bit crazy.

He stands out in a good West Ham side but so does his midfield partner Soucek who no one is saying is worth anywhere near Rice. I guess the bar isn't set that high at Utd so he'd easily walk into our starting XI in centre mid but for 100m you need to be walking into any midfield's starting XI and Rice is nowhere near that level yet.

I do think he's a good player but right now the price being quoted is ludicrous he's under a long contract so no one is going to go near him until the price comes down.
 

RichH2016

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I do think he's a good player but right now the price being quoted is ludicrous he's under a long contract so no one is going to go near him until the price comes down.
And that's where I'm so. He's a good player from what I've seen (and I'll admit that's not a lot). He's got potential to get better of course because he's young. But he's not a top 5 CM and for the money being discussed you want that. I'm not even sure he's got the potential to be top 5 CM.
 

jsp

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And that's where I'm so. He's a good player from what I've seen (and I'll admit that's not a lot). He's got potential to get better of course because he's young. But he's not a top 5 CM and for the money being discussed you want that. I'm not even sure he's got the potential to be top 5 CM.

That's the thing do a bit of decent scouting and you can probably find a player of similar quality at a third of the price.

One thing I will be interested to see next season is how he copes with playing in Europe that's a big thing for me at a top club you're playing an extra 10-15 games a season and still need to maintain that high standard in every game.
 

mitchmouse

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And that's where I'm so. He's a good player from what I've seen (and I'll admit that's not a lot). He's got potential to get better of course because he's young. But he's not a top 5 CM and for the money being discussed you want that. I'm not even sure he's got the potential to be top 5 CM.
Not saying I totally disagree, but I do remember people saying the same thing about a bloke called Roy Keane... and if Lingard was a make-weight, the cost might not be too bad
 

Cruella ne Ville

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No thank you. He hasn't impressed in the Euros and for the price West Ham would want, we could do better.

EDIT: He's also playing a double pivot. We need somebody who can do that job on their own.
 

jsp

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No thank you. He hasn't impressed in the Euros and for the price West Ham would want, we could do better.

EDIT: He's also playing a double pivot. We need somebody who can do that job on their own.

Depends if you're building for life with or life without Pogba. If we're going to have Bruno in this team we probably need our midfield to be the double pivot style as you're not going to want to reign in Bruno into a more defensive role by putting him in the 3. Just keep him near the opponents goal for maximum damage.

Rice plays a more defensive role for West Ham and England with Soucek/Phillips being the more forward thinking player.

I was way to drunk to judge his performance accurately against Germany but considering he was in the book after 10 minutes I felt he was excellant after than breaking up the play around our box but kept his discipline well. To me he looks a better version of McTominay and there's no doubt Rice improves our midfield options.

I do like Rice but I just think the fee West Ham want is unrealistic for him because he is so important to them maybe £30m plus Lingard he's worth the gamble but you feel like they want a lot more than that as they see him as the long term replacement for Noble.

Let's be honest if Rice spends his whole career at West Ham something has gone very wrong for him.
 

RichH2016

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I just don't think he's that good. I think he's a decent steady player but I don't see this world class player I really don't.
 

IDFD

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There aren't many world class defensive midfielders at 22. I like him but he isn't a player that just wants to sit in.
 

Cosmic Slop

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Depends if you're building for life with or life without Pogba. If we're going to have Bruno in this team we probably need our midfield to be the double pivot style as you're not going to want to reign in Bruno into a more defensive role by putting him in the 3. Just keep him near the opponents goal for maximum damage.
snip
This is the crux of the problem: Pogba flourishes in a midfield 3, Bruno needs the double pivot. What does Rice bring to both formations? Can Rice play instead of Fred? If yes, let's get him. I don't think he's that impressive but if he improves our starting XI and it's a choice of getting Rice or no one, get him.
 

IDFD

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Pogba will flourish in a 2 alongside a quality defensive midfielder. He's is better as the more attacking of the two midfielders in a three but our option next to him is poor.

I'd be very happy with Rice but rather go smash a bid in for Ndidi
 

jsp

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This is the crux of the problem: Pogba flourishes in a midfield 3, Bruno needs the double pivot. What does Rice bring to both formations? Can Rice play instead of Fred? If yes, let's get him. I don't think he's that impressive but if he improves our starting XI and it's a choice of getting Rice or no one, get him.

I think he is much better than Fred but it’s about a balance with Pogba the way that system works at its best is both players do bits of defending and attacking.

Pogba either needs to really learn that role of I don’t think we will ever find the perfect partner for him unless we find a player like Kante.

With Bruno who turns over possession a lot a player like Pogba who drifts into odd positions leaves you exposed defensively. The issue with them both as number 8s with 1 holder is they both tend to want to play left rather than right of that 3.

To me Bruno was signed to replace Pogba
 

mitchmouse

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Depends if you're building for life with or life without Pogba. If we're going to have Bruno in this team we probably need our midfield to be the double pivot style as you're not going to want to reign in Bruno into a more defensive role by putting him in the 3. Just keep him near the opponents goal for maximum damage.

Rice plays a more defensive role for West Ham and England with Soucek/Phillips being the more forward thinking player.

I was way to drunk to judge his performance accurately against Germany but considering he was in the book after 10 minutes I felt he was excellant after than breaking up the play around our box but kept his discipline well. To me he looks a better version of McTominay and there's no doubt Rice improves our midfield options.

I do like Rice but I just think the fee West Ham want is unrealistic for him because he is so important to them maybe £30m plus Lingard he's worth the gamble but you feel like they want a lot more than that as they see him as the long term replacement for Noble.

Let's be honest if Rice spends his whole career at West Ham something has gone very wrong for him.
My worry is, did we think the same about Frank Lampard - maybe you have to get a player before he becomes absolutely the best in his position (and pay for that). Roy Keane on day one at United was nothing like the Roy Keane he matured into. My feeling is Rice is definitely an upgrade on McFred and could possibly do the job on his own at United. On the other hand, if Ole buys him to play as part of a "two" then it's pretty pointless - and we won't win things that way with anyone. I disagree with those saying Rice hasn't been good for England
 

jsp

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Until that contract winds down or West Ham drastically drop their reported valuation Rice won’t be going anywhere.

I do wonder if he will regret signing that contract which could run until 2025 means West Ham hold all the power over him during the prime of his career.
 

IDFD

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Not really. He'll be 26 when the contract ends. 25 when they have to let him go. His prime is still there and a massive contract. But I think West Ham will sell him got £65m this summer they're screwed for money. They were even name checked by the Juventus owner the other day as a side that's likely to go bankrupt this off season
 

jsp

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Not really. He'll be 26 when the contract ends. 25 when they have to let him go. His prime is still there and a massive contract. But I think West Ham will sell him got £65m this summer they're screwed for money. They were even name checked by the Juventus owner the other day as a side that's likely to go bankrupt this off season

Point is you need to strike while the iron (no pun intended) is hot as a young player realistically the control sits with West Ham for at least 2 more seasons and it doesn’t take a lot for the big clubs to start looking elsewhere to solve their problems. It’s very hard to even see a club coughing up 50m on a player like him this summer as everyone is short of cash.

Juventus are more likely to go bust than them.

Unless West Ham have some massive hidden wage bill I don’t know about why would they go bust they rent their stadium so shouldn’t be carrying massive debts and the PL TV deal protects all the prem clubs much better than clubs on the continent.
 

SIR-ALEX-FERGIE

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I haven't read any previous messages in here but how about Phillips from Leeds ? Had a good euros and looked better than Rice IMO.
 

Cosmic Slop

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I think he [Phillips] looked better than Rice but that isn't saying much. Both would be an upgrade on central midfield options we currently have but neither are going to be what this team needs to really click.
 

jsp

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Think both would be good options Phillips to me reminds me of all the good bits of Fred but with better quality on the ball.

He's great at pressing the opponent putting them under pressure to win the ball back and when he wins the ball he's got the ability to make good passes which is where Fred struggles. My only worry with Phillips is how will he cope when the pace of the game is slower at Leeds it's 100mph all the time which really suits him.

Would be very tough to get him out of Leeds not only would they want a huge fee I think he's a proper Leeds boy through and through.

I do think centre mid is essential now I think we need to sell Pogba and move on from that he'll never be a top class centre mid you can rely on every week and he's become to much of a distraction. We need to find a really reliable all round central midfield player that can partner one of the existing lads and dominate the centre of the park which is something we really don't do.

I can only guess with Rice that the club could use Lingard as a bit of leverage if he wanted to go there permanently (I get the impression he doesn't).
 

Mr C

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Rice would be better for us, a bit more defensive and can also pass well.

I would only want us to buy a player like that if are going back to one DM. Surely playing 2, no matter how poor, should be good enough...........
 

jsp

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I think we've got to find a pair that works together I think Rice/Phillips worked well at the Euros because they're both good all round centre mids they can do a bit of everything maybe only weakness is neither really offers much of a goal threat either arriving in the box or hitting long range shots. This was the issue last season for me Fred and McTominay individually were not our 2 best centre mids but they were the best partnership which is why he played them they worked pretty well together to give us decent balance but they had limitations.

It'll be interesting to see what his intention is with the midfield I think we have to plan post Pogba if he wants to go for more of a 4-3-3 system then he needs that guy who can sit in the middle and not only dictate the build up play but also be the 1 man shield against the defence. That system for me suits the likes of VDB, McTominay and Fred but I'm not convinced it would suit Bruno who I think is a proper number 10 playmaker. It might be that he wants to be more flexible and will ask Bruno to play a slightly different role in the bigger games to get that extra man in midfield but we shall see.

However, he goes Utd have got to be much better at keeping the ball and creating pressure in the way that top teams do just pin you in your own half then punish any mistake in concentration. The problem with that is in players like Fred, Rashford, Bruno and Wan Bissaka I think we've got 3 or 4 players who get on the ball quite a lot who don't really look after it very well that is where things really need to tighten up in this team if we want to win the big prizes.
 

Mr C

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I read a Bruno interview this week, he said he is a high risk player, loses the ball a lot trying to create. I'm not sure that's good enough really.

Either he needs better movement in front of him or he needs to be more clever.

We definitely lose the ball too much.
 

SuperRash

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I read a Bruno interview this week, he said he is a high risk player, loses the ball a lot trying to create. I'm not sure that's good enough really.

Either he needs better movement in front of him or he needs to be more clever.

We definitely lose the ball too much.
You are going to lose the ball a fair amount when you are a creative player - that’s just the nature of the beast. You won’t get every pass correct and sometimes it is the movement in front of him that isn’t great, which in turn make those passes that little bit harder.

I would much rather Bruno look to be creative rather than play sideward passes that doesn’t really do anything to create.
 

jsp

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Bruno is what he is and having one player like that is probably ok but when you've got 3 or 4 players who give the ball away a lot you give your opponent so many chances to spring counter attacks on you.

Bruno's numbers in terms of goals, assists and chances created justify him giving the ball away.
 

Mr C

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maybe, but not when you've got McFred trying to clean up.

which is the point about personel and balance.
 

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