Coronavirus

Guys, do any of you actually know anyone who has been ill with this virus? I have asked so many people and I think I know 1 person who's had it.
Nothing about this situation adds up to me. The figures are all over the place, how can you bundle everyone who has dies and say it was Corona? Someone with a terminal illness dies of Corona has died of their terminal illness, Corona might have accelerated the last few days or whatever but it was the illness that took them, it doesn't add up. I want to see the figures that say this amount of normally healthy people in the UK died from Corona that weren't already ill or very old.

My next door neighbour is a nurse at the local hospital, she has told me categorically anyone who went to the hospital with suspected Corona and died in there was registered as a Corona death. She also said the wards were empty for most of the time and most of the staff there are doubting what they are being told now.
 
my sister in law had it, pretty bad but wasn't hospitalised. Knocked her out for about 3 weeks. She said her back felt like people were stabbing pins in it and it was difficult to sleep.
 
I don't have access to speak to Kate hence why I asked on here. Unless of course she is a member of the forum?
 
Am I making light of it? Why shouldn't i have an opinion and express my thoughts (I see you doing it enough) and get like for like feedback? Just because it is a 'serious' issue should it be avoided?
 
Red Warrior said:
I want to see the figures that say this amount of normally healthy people in the UK died from Corona that weren't already ill or very old.
Click to expand...

Excess deaths through the year are at 55k. These numbers can be verified using the Government website that has week ending death numbers and the running average for the last 5 years.

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Provisional counts of the number of deaths registered in England and Wales, by age, sex and region, in the latest weeks for which data are available. Includes the most up-to-date figures available for deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19).
www.ons.gov.uk

Ignore the Covid death figures and just go with registered deaths against the rolling average and you'll see how critical the situation is.
 
Red Warrior said:
Am I making light of it? Why shouldn't i have an opinion and express my thoughts (I see you doing it enough) and get like for like feedback? Just because it is a 'serious' issue should it be avoided?
Click to expand...
I didnt say you shouldnt have an opinion or express your thoughts. I was just expressing mine, thats all.
 
Below is the content of an email I sent to Asda on Monday. Followed by the response I have had to date yesterday.

Good Afternoon
I have just returned from shopping at your store in Dunstable and subsequently feel the need to write a letter of complaint.
On approaching the store, presuming it had a Covid Safe plan in place, I put my mask on and looked for an indication of what double doorset was being used for access. This was not easy to establish as there was no signage, no barriers or any form of demarcation to indicate this. Additionally most people were clearly using the same doorset for both access and egress causing clear congestion. Further observation made me determine that that set of doors was most likely meant to be the exit and I then entered through the other set of doors where inside there was a hand sanitiser and and cleaner for trollies station in place. As I used the sanitiser station I realised that as a consequence of the general public not knowing where the entrance was they were not sanitising as they entered through the exit doors.

This led me to approach the security guard who was positioned at a pedestal approx 20-30 feet inside the exit doors and I asked him a) does the store have a Covid Safe plan in place? b) could he advise me what it is? He responded by telling me he had never heard of it. I followed up by asking him if he had been briefed on the Covid Safe plan by the stores management, he told me he hadn't and advise me to go to the Customer Service desk where they may be able to help.
I went to the Customer Service desk and asked the same questions, the only answer I got was "we cant force them to wear masks". When I informed I was not referring to what the public were doing but more in regards to what the store, its management and its staff were doing I was told I would need to talk to a manager, so I asked to see a manager.
The manager arrived and I asked the same questions. The manager seemingly could not tell me what the Covid Safe plan was but instead asked me to highlight my concerns to him. I therefore explained and pointed out the access and egress issue, the lack of signage or demarcation and advised him that if the store does have a Covid Safe plan it was totally failing at the very place where it should be clear and transparent, namely the entrance. Anything else (floor stickers) becomes totally meaningless and ineffectual. As I was speaking to him the problem was being clearly observed with people entering via the exit, this included 2 staff members identifiable by there uniform. He told me he would sort it.
As I was walking round the isles the manager made a point of catching up with me to inform me he had had a word with the security guard who he had determined should be turning people away as they approach the exit to enter the store. I advised him it seemed unfair to lay the blame with the security guard and reminded him of the total absence of any signage or demarcation at the store entrance leaving the public with no idea what they should be doing or where they should be going.

This experience left me with the following thoughts and opinions

1. If the store has a Covid Safe Plan it is totally ineffective
2. If the store does have a Covid Safe plan then the management and staff either have no awareness of it, do not understand it and are in no way conversant on it.
3. Staff have clearly not been briefed on any Covid Safe plan or Risk Assessment that may be in place
4. There is a lack of sanitising at the store
5. The responsible people for this store are putting the general public, the store staff and themselves at risk, including those who may be more vulnerable to infection.

I may pass by to see if the situation improves but needless to say I shall not return to this store.
Please also be assured, I am 56 years of age and I have no recollection of writing a letter of complaint before, so you are not dealing with a serial complainer here. Simply a customer who was concerned by the very sloppy approach from this store during the current pandemic, which thankfully is not the general case with supermarkets.

Regards


Response
Hi

Thank you for your email to Roger Burnley.


I’m writing to let you know we’ve received your email, we’re currently investigating and one of our colleagues will be in touch as soon as possible.

Kind regards

Asda Executive Relations
 
While I wasn't tested I'm pretty sure I had it had all of the 3 listed symptoms and nearly 5 months later and I still don't have full sense of taste or smell my girlfriend had a similar situation with it but we "got" it in March when tests were not available unless you had to go to hospital. I struggled with fatigue for 2 or 3 weeks after my 1 day of fever but if I did get it sounds like I got off very lightly. Everything else was back to normal relatively quickly like a normal cold or flu.

I don't know anyone personally who had it heard a few people at work who got quite sick and one person at work had a relative die of it.

As IDFD highlighted the excess death figure sits at over 50k for the year that's around 6 months of Covid being active in the UK and despite their being a huge lockdown.

I do feel for the business owners in Aberdeen what happens to them now they are forced to close again will they be protected by insurance or government for loss of earnings and paying staff as they might only close for 1 week meaning they can't furlough people.
 
they need to improve the track and trace, another lockdown would be catastrophic for the ecconomy.
 
Cant see them only closing for 1 week, especially given they now advise a minimum 10 days isolation for anyone displaying symptoms
 
Has the guidance to shops changed? Neither of the Asda stores near me have kept separate entrances and exits. They changed how they operate pretty much when masks became mandatory.
 
O-Dog said:
Has the guidance to shops changed? Neither of the Asda stores near me have kept separate entrances and exits. They changed how they operate pretty much when masks became mandatory.
Click to expand...
Every other supermarket I have visited have maintained seperated way in / way out system. It is a condition of opening the store to have a Covid Safe plan in place. If everyone is poutring in and out the same doorset with no seperation or queing going on how can this possibly be Covid Safe? Masks being made mandatory have not removed the social distancing requirement and in any case there are many not wearing masks and the staff are not enforcing it (not suggesting they should). Most of the staff do not wear masks either (not suggesting they should).
 
O-Dog said:
Has the guidance to shops changed? Neither of the Asda stores near me have kept separate entrances and exits. They changed how they operate pretty much when masks became mandatory.
Click to expand...
Also, they have barriers internally forcing shoppers coming from the check outs to one particular door set to exit, whats the point of that if shoppers are also pouring in it because there is nothing external to indicate what they should be using as the entrance?
 
I think it'll be social places that get turned on and off as lockdowns now things like pubs/gyms/restaurants etc the cases will need to go incredibly high for another full lockdown but yes track and trace needs to improve.

Guidance to the public needs to be made much clearer and the public need to make sure they hold each other to account on it all.

Most of the big supermarkets round here are still doing a one way in one way out policy and restricting the numbers they let in but once you're inside it's a bit of a free for all. One way systems don't really work so they seem to have been scrapped, most people seem to wear masks and there's also hand sanitiser by the entrance.

To be fair our local co-op seem to be doing pretty well at enforcing it people queue outside and do one in one out.
 
Shoot said:
Below is the content of an email I sent to Asda on Monday. Followed by the response I have had to date yesterday.

Good Afternoon
I have just returned from shopping at your store in Dunstable and subsequently feel the need to write a letter of complaint.
On approaching the store, presuming it had a Covid Safe plan in place, I put my mask on and looked for an indication of what double doorset was being used for access. This was not easy to establish as there was no signage, no barriers or any form of demarcation to indicate this. Additionally most people were clearly using the same doorset for both access and egress causing clear congestion. Further observation made me determine that that set of doors was most likely meant to be the exit and I then entered through the other set of doors where inside there was a hand sanitiser and and cleaner for trollies station in place. As I used the sanitiser station I realised that as a consequence of the general public not knowing where the entrance was they were not sanitising as they entered through the exit doors.

This led me to approach the security guard who was positioned at a pedestal approx 20-30 feet inside the exit doors and I asked him a) does the store have a Covid Safe plan in place? b) could he advise me what it is? He responded by telling me he had never heard of it. I followed up by asking him if he had been briefed on the Covid Safe plan by the stores management, he told me he hadn't and advise me to go to the Customer Service desk where they may be able to help.
I went to the Customer Service desk and asked the same questions, the only answer I got was "we cant force them to wear masks". When I informed I was not referring to what the public were doing but more in regards to what the store, its management and its staff were doing I was told I would need to talk to a manager, so I asked to see a manager.
The manager arrived and I asked the same questions. The manager seemingly could not tell me what the Covid Safe plan was but instead asked me to highlight my concerns to him. I therefore explained and pointed out the access and egress issue, the lack of signage or demarcation and advised him that if the store does have a Covid Safe plan it was totally failing at the very place where it should be clear and transparent, namely the entrance. Anything else (floor stickers) becomes totally meaningless and ineffectual. As I was speaking to him the problem was being clearly observed with people entering via the exit, this included 2 staff members identifiable by there uniform. He told me he would sort it.
As I was walking round the isles the manager made a point of catching up with me to inform me he had had a word with the security guard who he had determined should be turning people away as they approach the exit to enter the store. I advised him it seemed unfair to lay the blame with the security guard and reminded him of the total absence of any signage or demarcation at the store entrance leaving the public with no idea what they should be doing or where they should be going.

This experience left me with the following thoughts and opinions

1. If the store has a Covid Safe Plan it is totally ineffective
2. If the store does have a Covid Safe plan then the management and staff either have no awareness of it, do not understand it and are in no way conversant on it.
3. Staff have clearly not been briefed on any Covid Safe plan or Risk Assessment that may be in place
4. There is a lack of sanitising at the store
5. The responsible people for this store are putting the general public, the store staff and themselves at risk, including those who may be more vulnerable to infection.

I may pass by to see if the situation improves but needless to say I shall not return to this store.
Please also be assured, I am 56 years of age and I have no recollection of writing a letter of complaint before, so you are not dealing with a serial complainer here. Simply a customer who was concerned by the very sloppy approach from this store during the current pandemic, which thankfully is not the general case with supermarkets.

Regards


Response
Hi

Thank you for your email to Roger Burnley.


I’m writing to let you know we’ve received your email, we’re currently investigating and one of our colleagues will be in touch as soon as possible.

Kind regards


Will be interesting to see what the reply is
Click to expand...
 
What baffles me is you go to Asda and have to wear a mask but the staff don't then you can go down the pub and sit with loads of people. Also my local Asda have ditched their one way entry system etc and everything looks as normal except for customers in masks. The big supermarkets are still eerily quiet even on weekends.
 
To be fair, I don't normally go to Asda
Red Warrior said:
What baffles me is you go to Asda and have to wear a mask but the staff don't then you can go down the pub and sit with loads of people. Also my local Asda have ditched their one way entry system etc and everything looks as normal except for customers in masks. The big supermarkets are still eerily quiet even on weekends.
Click to expand...
You are not supposed to be going down the pub and sitting with loads of people! I dont. You need to be taking personal responsibility for this.
 
Red Warrior said:
What baffles me is you go to Asda and have to wear a mask but the staff don't then you can go down the pub and sit with loads of people. Also my local Asda have ditched their one way entry system etc and everything looks as normal except for customers in masks. The big supermarkets are still eerily quiet even on weekends.
Click to expand...

You can't go to the pub and sit with loads of people this is the bit that is failing.

When you go to the pub you should only be sharing a table with one other household you shouldn't be mingling around the way you would before. Pubs have really struggled to enforce these rules as they have no real way of checking who is in what household when people turn up.

You shouldn't be standing around in the beer garden or standing at the bar like you did before.
 
is that right! how ridiculous, how is that meant to be reinforced.

Surely there must another way, appointments for tables of 4 or something, with table service only?
 
Exactly, and this is personal responsibility, it is up to you! no one else.
It is exactly why I decided not to stay in Llandudno on Sunday as it was clearly too busy and distancing was not happening at bars. I moved on to Conwyn Bay where things were being better observed and much more civilised.
People need to understand this. It is their responsibility!
 
Most pubs are asking groups to sign in on arrival, you then go find a table and there's normally a one way queue system to the bar where you order drinks then take them to your table.

Some pubs are enforcing this pretty strictly but others really aren't.

There was talk prior to them opening of basically booking tables but most pubs found that wasn't really practical and have said it's first come first serve in terms of table but if you're serving behind the bar you probably can't see what's going on outside unless someone is out collecting glasses.

Problem is all these pubs are losing money so they can't afford to put in extra staff like door staff to enforce the rules and they really don't want to turn away trade.

It's on the public to do things properly last night thinking about it technically I broke the rules our 5 a-side league started again and after the game 3 of us sat and had a pint in the bar at the 5 a-side place. Thinking about it that broke the rules.

This is why hands off approaches like we've had from our government just aren't going to work as everyone pushes the rules a little bit which means they become pretty pointless.
 
jsp said:
Most pubs are asking groups to sign in on arrival, you then go find a table and there's normally a one way queue system to the bar where you order drinks then take them to your table.

Some pubs are enforcing this pretty strictly but others really aren't.

There was talk prior to them opening of basically booking tables but most pubs found that wasn't really practical and have said it's first come first serve in terms of table but if you're serving behind the bar you probably can't see what's going on outside unless someone is out collecting glasses.

Problem is all these pubs are losing money so they can't afford to put in extra staff like door staff to enforce the rules and they really don't want to turn away trade.

It's on the public to do things properly last night thinking about it technically I broke the rules our 5 a-side league started again and after the game 3 of us sat and had a pint in the bar at the 5 a-side place. Thinking about it that broke the rules.

This is why hands off approaches like we've had from our government just aren't going to work as everyone pushes the rules a little bit which means they become pretty pointless.
Click to expand...
What do you mean hands off approaches? Whats the Government supposed to do have someone monitor every pub?
Some pubs are trying hard to take responsibility but others just want to get their tills banging. You need to take some responsibility yourself and the rest of us should be able to trust you will.
 
Shoot said:
What do you mean hands off approaches? Whats the Government supposed to do have someone monitor every pub?
Some pubs are trying hard to take responsibility but others just want to get their tills banging. You need to take some responsibility yourself and the rest of us should be able to trust you will.
Click to expand...

More a reference to the general tone of all our lockdown measures we are being asked to do things not told to do them and since the whole Cummings thing the people in the UK basically are sticking two fingers up to it and just going back to normal because the message from the very top is breaking the rules carries zero punishment. We didn't have the strict lockdowns that other countries in Europe had where you were basically shut in your house and if you were caught on the streets you were being confronted by the police or other government officials.

From day one it's been hands off, it's remaining hands off and the way the rules are written and being applied they might as feel almost half arsed as after a few days of following them standards slip back to old habits.

Who's doing the spot checks on pubs/restaurants/cafe's to make sure they're applying the rules? Who actually signs off their policy to say they're covid compliant?

My point was no one is really monitoring what people are actually doing it and correcting it the whole thing feels a bit half arsed.
 
Making difinitive rules and regs is not that easy when there is a clear need for compromise. It needs to be understood this is what we are doing. We are compromising with this virus in order to prevent an economical catastrophy.
This requires the common sense of the public above all else.
 
I take it back to Cummings, should have sacked him. That was a green light to a lot of people.
 
Mr C said:
I take it back to Cummings, should have sacked him. That was a green light to a lot of people.
Click to expand...

An excuse for some more likely. Just because a person does something it doesn’t In my mind make it right.
 
Yeah it’s the people’s fault. Boris Johnson telling them to ‘do their patriotic best and get back to pubs’ was definitely the best way to put it.
 
over 1000 new cases here yesterday, mask must be worn outside in a few cities now, including Toulouse.
 
Reported in the news today, following on from my comments yesterday about the figures being wrong and largely inflated (and i have been saying this for months):
Thousands of coronavirus deaths 'will be wiped off the government's official toll' after urgent review into counting fiasco that included people who had recovered and died of other causes in the toll
www.dailymail.co.uk

Thousands of Covid deaths 'to be removed after counting blunder'

Health Secretary Matt Hancock last month ordered an urgent review into how daily death counts are calculated by Public Health England because of a 'statistical flaw'.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
I think it's well known that the numbers are inflated, throughout Europe, but in particular the UK who did not do enough testing.

However, it does not mean the virus is not around and is not dangerous. The figures for the amount of extra deaths this year shows that.
 
Red Warrior said:
Reported in the news today, following on from my comments yesterday about the figures being wrong and largely inflated (and i have been saying this for months):
Thousands of coronavirus deaths 'will be wiped off the government's official toll' after urgent review into counting fiasco that included people who had recovered and died of other causes in the toll
www.dailymail.co.uk

Thousands of Covid deaths 'to be removed after counting blunder'

Health Secretary Matt Hancock last month ordered an urgent review into how daily death counts are calculated by Public Health England because of a 'statistical flaw'.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...

And how many thousands of lives have been missed that wern’t counted as Covid related. The excess deaths number is the one to look at.

We are on 46k deaths. But 55k excess deaths the likelihood is that we’ve missed deaths not added them on.

Also they’ve no idea what the Covid recovery is and the longer lasting effects. Some scientist reckon you’re looking at 5 years before you begin to understand the full impact it will have had on someone’s life.

50% of people that have had Covid under the age of 49 are still showing Kidney, Heart and Lung damage 3 months later.
 

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