Coronavirus

Wimbledon site this morning has 130 operatives on it. I can imagine it’s because of three things. Something has to keep stimulating the economy slightly. A lot of site workers are self employed. Critical infrastructure such as Homes, hospitals and schools which are required for September.

I didn’t receive any txt message from the government.
 
You’ll probably get a message later in the day. It’s going through all the network providers so everyone should get a message at some point.
 
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Going to work is one of the things that is still fine. No self employed person is getting fined for heading to work.

Document since released says construction workers are free to continue to go to site.
Going to work is one of the things that is still fine. No self employed person is getting fined for heading to work.

Document since released says construction workers are free to continue to go to site.
There are sites closing as we speak, and large one's to boot. Also you seem to be making the assumption all self employed are in the building trade
 
There are sites closing as we speak, and large one's to boot. Also you seem to be making the assumption all self employed are in the building trade

There may be sites closing yes, however regardless the site I work is still open everyone I know in the industry is still open and the Government specifically excluded building sites from last night message.


Secondly I didn’t make any assumption that everyone is self employed works in construction. You gleaned that yourself from what I said. I said many people in construction are self employed and this will have been taken in to consideration when allowing those to continue. However I said no self employed person will be fined for going to work. Which they won’t be. The government hasn’t yet banned going to work other than places its specifically actually closed. Again looking for an argument that isn’t there.
 
There may be sites closing yes, however regardless the site I work is still open everyone I know in the industry is still open and the Government specifically excluded building sites from last night message.


Secondly I didn’t make any assumption that everyone is self employed works in construction. You gleaned that yourself from what I said. I said many people in construction are self employed and this will have been taken in to consideration when allowing those to continue. However I said no self employed person will be fined for going to work. Which they won’t be. The government hasn’t yet banned going to work other than places its specifically actually closed. Again looking for an argument that isn’t there.
I'm not looking for an argument, but you seem to be missing the point that the Government appears happy for armies of construction workers to crowd our transport systems travelling into central London, Birmingham, Manchester etc to work on building sites rather than offer the self employed similar safety net to On Payroll employee's.
They are very much aware the construction industry is largely made up from a flexible workforce and they seem happy to take the risk of virus transmission on these transport systems which then follows into the workplace prior to making the journey back to the family home and then back onto the transport system the following day to spread further.
Lock Down? Its the biggest contradiction imaginable and it is an affront to the flexible workforce of this country as the Gov is effectively saying, Sorry no help available!!
 
I’m not missing the point at all. I gave a reason for why the government has done it. I also think it includes critical services like schools being built in time for September and the fact something has to keep the economy slightly stimulated and there is a lot of trickle down effect in construction.

I also said that I don’t see this as a massive change from Friday. Lockdown isn’t a word I’d used to describe it. He’s just used more stern words similar to what he did with the pubs.

People were advised not to go out and socialise but continued to so he’s putting a stop to it. You can still leave your house and get some exercise just not in groups. You can still go shopping and you can still go to work. Just only if necessary and you can’t work from home.
 
Our company has made the decision to start shutting down sites indefinitely every project manager has been told to make it safe and send everyone home on the basis that it is not safe for them to be on site.

Our clients have been pretty supportive of this measure... lets see if they change their tune at a later date.

Sounds like quite a few of the major house builders have started closing sites as well.

Most major contractors are apparently having meetings today in light of last nights announcement so I expect they'll be closing sites over the next day or two.

Not wishing to get into the whole self employed/employed argument part of the responsibility of being self employed is you need to make sure you are protecting yourself for a rainy day you take the rough with the smooth in terms of work when times are good you make sure you put something away for when it isn't. Now in reality that's tough to do but it's part of that responsibility and construction has abused that relationship to minimise the number of workers it actually has on the books because workload for any contractor is so variable.
 
The important thing is that these sites are closed to stop the hoards on the transport systems which makes a total mockery of the social distancing ideology.
Secondly, this is a world crisis where financial assistance should be available to all who need it. This will likely have eventual benefits when we start the rebuilding process.
 
Not wishing to get into the whole self employed/employed argument part of the responsibility of being self employed is you need to make sure you are protecting yourself for a rainy day you take the rough with the smooth in terms of work when times are good you make sure you put something away for when it isn't. Now in reality that's tough to do but it's part of that responsibility and construction has abused that relationship to minimise the number of workers it actually has on the books because workload for any contractor is so variable.

I think that is extremely harsh. Shouldn't everyone in work be doing that in case of a lay off? Especially after the 2008 financial disaster. You're talking people that have 2 year contracts in hand and no worries about work coming to a cease having a global epidemic putting them in financial difficulty not anything that could have been foreseen.

The company I work for announced this morning they wont be closing anytime soon. Obviously that could change but their wording was 'The Government has made it clear that construction and manufacturing are two key sectors that must continue working, a point emphasised by Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick who said on Twitter, ‘If you can work from home, do so. If you are working on site, you can continue to do so. But follow Public Health England guidance on social distancing’. The point about construction remaining open for business was further reinforced this morning on BBC1 breakfast news by Minister for the Cabinet Office Michael Gove.'
 
I think that is extremely harsh. Shouldn't everyone in work be doing that in case of a lay off? Especially after the 2008 financial disaster. You're talking people that have 2 year contracts in hand and no worries about work coming to a cease having a global epidemic putting them in financial difficulty not anything that could have been foreseen.

The company I work for announced this morning they wont be closing anytime soon. Obviously that could change but their wording was 'The Government has made it clear that construction and manufacturing are two key sectors that must continue working, a point emphasised by Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick who said on Twitter, ‘If you can work from home, do so. If you are working on site, you can continue to do so. But follow Public Health England guidance on social distancing’. The point about construction remaining open for business was further reinforced this morning on BBC1 breakfast news by Minister for the Cabinet Office Michael Gove.'

It is harsh but it's reality you know the risks of being self employed you want to take holiday or you get sick you don't get paid the freedom comes in if you just decide you don't fancy working for them anymore you can normally leave much quicker than someone who's actually on the books. In normal times it's give and take but these aren't normal times and given how construction exploits the self employed status there needs to be recognition of that to protect these people.

I think the main thing to consider is site facilities are not setup with social distancing in mind they are designed to cram as many people as possible into as small a space as possible. This is where things need to change reducing the number of people on projects and slowing them down may be a better solution than stopping, certainly staggering breaks in a way that welfare facilities don't become as crowded. You then have problems of transporting your workforce most firms will send gangs to projects in a crew bus or van multiple people travelling together.

I get why the government wants to keep going you can't close down the entire economy but for me it feels like a gradual slowdown of everything the only construction projects that I expect to remain open will be key infrastructure projects any commercial project I think will be shut down.
 
I get why the government wants to keep going you can't close down the entire economy but for me it feels like a gradual slowdown of everything the only construction projects that I expect to remain open will be key infrastructure projects any commercial project I think will be shut down.
I can offer you an assurance that its the key infrastructure projects that are closing as we speak and so it should be as these are usually highly populated.
Also, self employment is not always a choice. The construction industry is highly dependent on a flexible work force and therefore advertise roles and employ people into them on that basis. It's not all rosy as you suggest, there are no employment rights, pension schemes, car allowances etc, the self employed man provides everthing.
 
I can offer you an assurance that its the key infrastructure projects that are closing as we speak and so it should be as these are usually highly populated.
Also, self employment is not always a choice. The construction industry is highly dependent on a flexible work force and therefore advertise roles and employ people into them on that basis. It's not all rosy as you suggest, there are no employment rights, pension schemes, car allowances etc, the self employed man provides everthing.

Mace have just put out a statement confirming all sites to close for 48 hours from tonight while they review safety measures only those which they believe are safe for people to socially distance on will re-open. I expect all of the big tier one contractors will be doing similar shortly.

By key infrastructure I mean things like projects that keep the water running, power on, railways/transport networks live etc.

I work in this industry so I'm well aware of the reasons why we have a high number of self employed people in the vast majority of cases it is not a choice it's an industry practice that allows contractors to adjust work force quickly to suit needs. I work for a civil engineering firm I'd say around 80% of the lads on the ground day to day are self employed/agency staff. When I joined the industry 15 years ago it was probably more like 80% the other way but there's been a rapid change in industry practise over the last 15 years as companies don't want people on the books. The way the industry works currently is setup very much lose-lose for the employee and win-win for the employer.
 
TFL have also announced the closure of all sites such as Crossrail and Barking Riverside - yes now better understand your point better when you say key infrastructure projects, of course these things must go on, but with new control measures!
 
How is everyone doing on morning 1 of the lockdown?
It doesn't feel any different to meet. I am still in work doing the same hours. I don't get paid anything but ssp I don't think unless my company literally send me home. Yes I am really worried, I would definitely prefer to be isolating but I cannot afford to do so.
 
It doesn't feel any different to meet. I am still in work doing the same hours. I don't get paid anything but ssp I don't think unless my company literally send me home. Yes I am really worried, I would definitely prefer to be isolating but I cannot afford to do so.
Can I ask what you do?
 
Yeah I work for a main dealer in tbe motor trade. It's commercial therefore we seem to be regarded as key workers as we have to keep blue light and supermarket vehicles on tbe road.
 
Sounds reasonable enough provided you dont need to use crowded transport systems to get there and can practice social distancing when there
 
Lets hope the measure works.

Sounds like New York is the next hot spot they are really struggling over there and Trump is going around telling the people they hope to be opening the USA back up by Easter. The mayor of new work doesn't share that optimism.
 
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Police had to break up a BBQ in Coventry yesterday.
 
Police had to break up a BBQ in Coventry yesterday.
The stupidity by some people in this country is startling. How hard is it? Just stay at home! It’s not like we are being told to fly to the freaking moon.
 
The stupidity by some people in this country is startling. How hard is it? Just stay at home! It’s not like we are being told to fly to the freaking moon.

Just got to keep drilling home the message every day do not mix with anyone who does not live in your house make it as clear as possible and the public need to start self policing it.

I saw someone playing in the park with his two daughters while I was walking the dog yesterday I wasn't sure if they should be there but reading guidance you shouldn't be doing that either so again more reinforcement of the message required.

It was always going to take a day or two to settle down but I think most people are getting the message now it's just the last few who aren't.
 
Just got to keep drilling home the message every day do not mix with anyone who does not live in your house make it as clear as possible and the public need to start self policing it.

I saw someone playing in the park with his two daughters while I was walking the dog yesterday I wasn't sure if they should be there but reading guidance you shouldn't be doing that either so again more reinforcement of the message required.

It was always going to take a day or two to settle down but I think most people are getting the message now it's just the last few who aren't.

It's about using common sense. The guy with his daughters is fine to be in the park playing if it's just them 3 and they aren't socializing with anyone else. It's about creating house to house boundaries and not giving it to anyone else or receiving it from anyone else from a different household. For me it's all a bit impractical anyway as I live with a teacher and a pharmacist. But other than getting out the house for an hour in the evening with the dog there really is no need to go out and I wont be. My fridge is stocked up with the weeks shopping I need. Also there's nothing to do anyway!
 
I don't know why he's staggering all rules the like this, just learn from the european countries, don't go out or get fined.
 
Numerous reason.

1. Killing the economy will cost more years in life lost than Corona itself.
2. It is terrible for peoples mental health not to get out of the house at all for a bit of exercise and mental health positivity is something our society is pushing towards. Other countries lag behind in this if they don't see the damage it can cause.
3. People need to be able to go and help out the vulnerable
4. People need to be able to get to hospital.
5, People need to be able to pick up supplies especially as everyone was asked not to stock up.

Unless being out because of the above reasons then as of tomorrow once the law passes then you will get a fine.
 
Prince Charles test positive for Corona.

Edit: Already posted.
 
Numerous reason.

1. Killing the economy will cost more years in life lost than Corona itself.
2. It is terrible for peoples mental health not to get out of the house at all for a bit of exercise and mental health positivity is something our society is pushing towards. Other countries lag behind in this if they don't see the damage it can cause.
3. People need to be able to go and help out the vulnerable
4. People need to be able to get to hospital.
5, People need to be able to pick up supplies especially as everyone was asked not to stock up.

Unless being out because of the above reasons then as of tomorrow once the law passes then you will get a fine.

I think you will soon found out the problem with Boris being so slow. The NHS will be over run like Lombardy and many many people will die. Unecessarily. Not just those of Covid-19. The hospitals will be over run, and the lack of PPE is terrible. A Mayor in Lombardy has flown his children at Uni in the UK home becasue they will be safer there.

How come France, Germany, Denmark etc can all do it?

Here in France, with a form you can:

Shop for food
Go to pharmacy
Go to hospital
Go to work - key working
Walk the dog/exercise within 1km of you home, on your own.

If you're out without a form it's 300e.

I hope I'm wrong, but looking from the outside the UK has done everything wrong. My 80 year old parents can't get a food delivery for 16 days!
 
Only time will tell but at the moment you'd have to say the UK are handling it quite well. It started off as a bit of a shambles but they've done a fantastic job since in my opinion. The french news and government will want you to think we're handling it poorly especially this week when it's gone from 200 deaths to well over 1000 deaths they need to deflect from whats happening over there.

A new emergency hospital will open on Monday with 4,000 beds available for use. They actually have a well formulated plan as of last week that they're sticking to.
 

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