Coronavirus

There’s a variety of reasons our numbers are high. Initially slow to react, population density. Population itself. If you look at deaths by population instead of just the total number Spain, Italy, UK, France in that order are 4, 5, 6, 7th. Belgium is 2nd with almost double the amount of deaths of France per million people and they had a very swift lockdown.

I don’t think the government were quick enough to react if the lockdown had happened a week or two earlier we’d probably be out of this by now but I also think the numbers need context. Spain has had less deaths than the other three but more deaths as a percentage of the population. Spain and Italy don’t include carehome deaths and only include deaths where CV was considered the primary cause. Where as any death in the UK where Covid exist is counted.

Until we’re through this and we can use average weekly deaths against the average over the last 5 years we’ll won’t know what the true rate is.
 
We were slow at going into lockdown we should have shutdown at least 1 week possibly even 2 weeks earlier but it was the lack of preparation in the months we had building up to it by all accounts basic PPE and testing equipment stockpiles weren't increased when we had the chance.

We were so focused as always on the Brexit issues through January we didn't prepare for this event at all and we went into this with reactive measures rather than proactive measures which is how Germany tackled it.
 
there was also the purchase of millions of useless tests, Matt Hancock on QT at the start of lockdown saying all hospitals would have ppe by the end of the weekend. The care home neglect etc etc

I don't vote either of the two majot parties (in fact I don't vote at all) but I like the sound of Kier Starmer in the two PMQ he's done. I think Boris could be in trouble with him at the helm, you can tell he was a QC.
 
Yep Starmer should be able to pick the Tories to pieces every time he's put in front of them he'll run rings round them you can see they've already started trying to dig durt up on him.

There's some story about him owning land worth £10m turns out it's land he bought years ago for his sick mum to raise donkeys on & ones about his with the CPS saying things like he allowed grooming gangs to thrive etc when truth is they couldn't bring any charges because the evidence wasn't there and trials would cost fortunes and fail to get the result.

The tories are much better at the shaming of the opponent because they have the tabloids in their pocket and while those papers no longer get much daily readership they still create the agenda on TV news/talkshows. Part of labours downfall in recent years is they've attacked the policies and not the individual whereas the Tories did the opposite.

As long as he hasn't got skeletons in his closet and if he has now is the time to get them out and bury them in corona chat he should be able to build a lot of momentum behind him for the next election.

It sounds very callous to say but the blood is on Tory hands and when the true toll is know if you play the angle right you can beat them with it.
 
So are people saying the same things about H1N1, SARS, and MERS? These are all Chinese conspiracies? That stuff is delusional, and worse, it's a Trump World talking point. He is trying to drum up anti-Chinese sentiment because he knows you need a good villain on reality TV.
By that, am I to take it you do not believe Covid 19 is a Chinese virus?
 
Looks like there's going to be an inquiry into the source of the virus as well the theories that it may have escaped from a Wuhan research lab rather that cross contamination with food aren't going away.
Whatever, it is exactly what Trump calls it. A Chinese virus.
 
By that, am I to take it you do not believe Covid 19 is a Chinese virus?
No, I do not believe it is a virus created by the Chinese, any more than SARS or MERS were secret government projects. It's like calling Ebola "the West African disease". It's dumb, it's lazy, it's racist, it's exactly what Trump wants you to say.
 
Whatever, it is exactly what Trump calls it. A Chinese virus.
It was a ridiculous statement to call it a Chinese virus. It encourages xenophobia and attaches a stigma to China. It’s typical of something Trump would say and like Cosmic said it was downright dumb and lazy.
 
It isn't something that comes from Trump it's something that was said a long time before it got to America. Firstly it originated in China. If it originated in America we'd be calling them out on it and saying it's an American virus. Secondly it's not racist to say something is Chinese because that's where it originated. No more racist than to say Josef Fritzl was Austrian. Thirdly to bury your head in the sand and to ignore the potential this wasn't just an accident would be as foolish as to think the opposite was definite. An investigation has to happen. Fact is though regardless of how i came about the Chinese government haven't been open and transparent. Have allowed this to infect the world by hiding the potential dangers, have silenced people that tried to speak out and spent weeks buying up the worlds PPE before letting it out and do need to be held accountable.
 
No doubt that it originated in China but the comments by Trump and others just stokes the fire of certain groups that use it as a free for all to be xenophobic and violent to the Chinese communities. By labelling it as the Chinese virus was just lazy. It was just so blasé in the wording.

There needs to be a thorough investigation without a doubt and I think there were serious misgivings in how China handled it.
 
It isn't something that comes from Trump it's something that was said a long time before it got to America. Firstly it originated in China. If it originated in America we'd be calling them out on it and saying it's an American virus. Secondly it's not racist to say something is Chinese because that's where it originated. No more racist than to say Josef Fritzl was Austrian. Thirdly to bury your head in the sand and to ignore the potential this wasn't just an accident would be as foolish as to think the opposite was definite. An investigation has to happen. Fact is though regardless of how i came about the Chinese government haven't been open and transparent. Have allowed this to infect the world by hiding the potential dangers, have silenced people that tried to speak out and spent weeks buying up the worlds PPE before letting it out and do need to be held accountable.
 
It isn't something that comes from Trump it's something that was said a long time before it got to America. Firstly it originated in China. If it originated in America we'd be calling them out on it and saying it's an American virus. Secondly it's not racist to say something is Chinese because that's where it originated. No more racist than to say Josef Fritzl was Austrian. Thirdly to bury your head in the sand and to ignore the potential this wasn't just an accident would be as foolish as to think the opposite was definite. An investigation has to happen. Fact is though regardless of how i came about the Chinese government haven't been open and transparent. Have allowed this to infect the world by hiding the potential dangers, have silenced people that tried to speak out and spent weeks buying up the worlds PPE before letting it out and do need to be held accountable.
Yes, it is racist and xenophobic to continually use “the Chinese” virus to stoke racial enmity. This is literally what Trump does to rile up his base. If you can’t see that after nearly 4 years of this lunatic, I have nothing else to say. In fact, I am here only to discuss United. I’m steering clear of all else now. Thanks
 
Why does it matter where the virus originated? Nobody blames the USA for Spanish Flu that killed 50million. Both its waves originated in mid America.

There's absolutely no evidence the virus is engineered or was released on purpose. I think to believe these things is like believing the moon landings never happened.
 
there are two things going on here. One is Trump being a Cretin, using racist terms, and just being Trump.

The other is some information regarding the virus, the fact it is more virulant than SARS, MERS etc, some scientists believe could mean it was manufactured. And also the information regarding the lab being closed down for two weeks in Nov.

I'm not saying they are true, but just because Trump is spouting off doesn't mean they shouldn't be investigated.
 
Why does it matter where the virus originated? Nobody blames the USA for Spanish Flu that killed 50million. Both its waves originated in mid America.

There's absolutely no evidence the virus is engineered or was released on purpose. I think to believe these things is like believing the moon landings never happened.

But there is a lot of evidence to suggest China hid its original impact wasn’t transparent with the world and silenced people from talking. Told companies to buy up stockpiles of PPE which led to hundreds of thousands needlessly dying when country’s would have acted much quicker with informed dialogue.

To not see that is to believe the sky is green because China told you so.
 
No, I do not believe it is a virus created by the Chinese, any more than SARS or MERS were secret government projects. It's like calling Ebola "the West African disease". It's dumb, it's lazy, it's racist, it's exactly what Trump wants you to say.
That is simply an intentional play with words. Fact is this disease originated in China and China knowingly undertake practices that make such an outbreak likely to happen and therefore it was probably preventable, regardless of fact that it was also most probably accidental.
The fallout and debate on where (within China) and how the virus originated doesn't change this, and it is correct and just that an inquiry is carried out to try and best establish if China has been transparent on the matter.
The fact that the US has a President not fit for office is no good reason to be ignoring such facts and should your President be re-elected for another term, it would suggest a large proportion of your population are not fit for the vote.
 
Why does it matter where the virus originated? Nobody blames the USA for Spanish Flu that killed 50million. Both its waves originated in mid America.
Originated in mid America? who say's so? where did you get that from? Total nonsense to be trying to make any comparison in regards to the origins of Covid 19
There's absolutely no evidence the virus is engineered or was released on purpose.
I don't see anyone here actually making that claim.
 
I'm not saying they are true, but just because Trump is spouting off doesn't mean they shouldn't be investigated.
[/QUOTE]
And that's it. Likelyhood is it was accidental, but it needs investigating. It is what Trump calls it, we cannot ignore that just because Trump say's it regardless of his intention.
 
Originated in mid America? who say's so? where did you get that from? Total nonsense to be trying to make any comparison in regards to the origins of Covid 19
I think the origins of the Spanish flu have been widely discussed. Some think it originated in America and some have discredited that notion. However the premise of what O-Dog was saying is correct, you shouldn’t label it the Chinese Virus - was the Ebola outbreak a couple of years ago called that ‘Congo Virus’?

I don’t think anyone is discounting the Chinese involvement or their shortcomings but just the wording of some statements.
 
I think the origins of the Spanish flu have been widely discussed. Some think it originated in America and some have discredited that notion. However the premise of what O-Dog was saying is correct, you shouldn’t label it the Chinese Virus - was the Ebola outbreak a couple of years ago called that ‘Congo Virus’?

I don’t think anyone is discounting the Chinese involvement or their shortcomings but just the wording of some statements.
Ebola should not be used as a comparison either. It didn't have the impact on us that Covid has so it did not draw the same attention, want or need to establish facts, fully determine the origins and indeed establish transparency. The flu that is wrongly termed "Spanish Flu" most likely has it's origins in Europe.
 
The virus already has a name Covid 19 changing that name to the "Chinese virus" especially when used by an absolute weapon like Trump is done to stock up anger towards the Chinese.

Trump as far as I recall only switched to calling it the Chinese virus after his initial smug response about America expecting zero casualties was out the window once those numbers started cranking up day by day and he looked an absolute fool he suddenly started calling it the Chinese Virus rather than Covid 19 or Coronavirus.

He knew he'd really f*cked it on this one so he went into deflection mode and reminding everyone that it came from China so they wouldn't concentrate on the fact that he saw it coming, was told to prepare and had time to prepare and did absolutely nothing just like we did.

We both let the bomb hit on the gamble that it wouldn't detonate rather than deploy some sort of defence weapon which might have cost us money.
 
9,000 jobs going at Rolls Royce a number of high street retailers/restaurant chains calling in the administrators some dark days coming for a lot of people at the end of this unemployment is going to rocket as soon as the furlough scheme gets pulled.

Government says it's new track and trace programme will be up and running from the 1st June.

Looks like huge numbers of people from all over the country have been heading to the beaches which is ridiculous but not surprising following the recent relaxation and the hot weather.

Numbers in the UK still slowly coming down but sounds like things in central and south America are getting bad especially in Brazil who have another one of these populist leaders who's trying to downplay it all but reports are the health system is on the brink of collapse and the daily death toll is now over 1,000.
 
Think social distancing has gone to hell. So many pictures of beaches jam packed with not much distance between sunbathers.
 
The virus already has a name Covid 19 changing that name to the "Chinese virus" especially when used by an absolute weapon like Trump is done to stock up anger towards the Chinese.
Regardless of Trumps motives, to not recognise Covid 19 as a Chinese virus brought about (as a best case scenario) due to that country undertaking practices that are known to make such an outbreak likely is simply to go to the other extreme for the sake of political correctness.
Trump should be condemned for the style and motive of his comments, not the comment itself.
There needs to be a PC balance to everything. PC has gone totally mad.
We both let the bomb hit on the gamble that it wouldn't detonate rather than deploy some sort of defence weapon which might have cost us money.
Is there any country who actually dealt with this in a way that would find approval by us (the general public)? I don't think so. Others waited until it had hit before deploying draconian measures on it's people, most likely because they had come to the realisation how serious the threat actually was.
We (and probably the rest) most likely made assessments and in the first instance pledged to take up a herd immunity strategy. That has not really changed, the UK Government has acted only to slow the spread so as it is manageable and that (in my opinion) is evident enough in the UK Gov's premature easing of lockdown.
Herd immunity is still the strategy, they just don't say it anymore because the public cannot stomach it.
 
Think social distancing has gone to hell. So many pictures of beaches jam packed with not much distance between sunbathers.
I went for a 3hr hike in my usual local area of designated Area of Outstanding Beauty. All the car park areas that had previously been blocked by trees to prevent public access had been reopened. The ice cream vans were back.
In fairness, the areas didn't feel overly busy and everyone was respectful and maintaining distances. There was also the added bonus of having some rather nice ladies in their summer wear to look at :):)

I do hope folk stay sensible and protect themselves and others so as to bring this disease under control.
 
Watch the BBC2 documentary "The Flu that killed 50 million". A solid theory, although difficult to prove after so much time
And that's all it is, a theory and there are many more. The least likely one being that it had it origins in Spain.
 
And that's all it is, a theory and there are many more. The least likely one being that it had it origins in Spain.
Plenty of evidence though, so a very plausible and well supported theory.

The only link with Spain is due to the plentiful reporting of the Spanish cases during the first outbreak. The US and UK governments suppressed news of the illness due to the war. Spain was neutral, so reporters had no such restrictions.
 
Plenty of evidence though, so a very plausible and well supported theory.

The only link with Spain is due to the plentiful reporting of the Spanish cases during the first outbreak. The US and UK governments suppressed news of the illness due to the war. Spain was neutral, so reporters had no such restrictions.
It is more likely to have it's origins in France
 
Is there any country who actually dealt with this in a way that would find approval by us (the general public)? I don't think so. Others waited until it had hit before deploying draconian measures on it's people, most likely because they had come to the realisation how serious the threat actually was.
We (and probably the rest) most likely made assessments and in the first instance pledged to take up a herd immunity strategy. That has not really changed, the UK Government has acted only to slow the spread so as it is manageable and that (in my opinion) is evident enough in the UK Gov's premature easing of lockdown.
Herd immunity is still the strategy, they just don't say it anymore because the public cannot stomach it.

There was obviously no stopping this thing even when the WHO started issuing warnings in January by then it was to late. It does feel like we didn't prepare our defences properly at this point we didn't make sure our stock piles of PPE and testing equipment were at the levels they should be as laid out in our pandemic preparation plans etc. We didn't try to look at ways we could track and trace it like they have done in South Korea for example although this isn't South Korea's first experience of this sort of issue.

The whole herd immunity thing feels like one of many ideas that was put out to the public to see how it floated when it was slammed publicly the policy was changed. This seems to be how the government is doing things these days they leak a bit of info and if it blows up into scandal they deny it was the plan if people don't really react they implement it.

Just felt to me like they never really took it seriously assumed it was going to be the like SARS or MERS and not really come this far west but they got that very wrong and ever since they've been scrambling around and it's cost a lot more lives than it could have if we'd got ready for it.
 
Sadly, it sounds like Sweden's strategy and refusal to lockdown is starting to spectacularly backfire with the worlds highest death rate over the last week being reported.
 

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