Champions Legue: Manchester United v Benfica

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Sideshow Bob

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Tuesday, 31st October 2017
Champions League, Group A

Old Trafford
19:45 GMT
 

jsp

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If Shaw doesn’t start this one it really is over for him.

Can see the back 3 coming in again but with Lindelof getting a start possibly instead of Bailly or Jones.

I’d like to see Lingard start in behind the 2 strikers my guess is Martial will start ahead of Rashford.

DDG

Lindelof Smalling Jones

Valencia Matic Herrera Shaw

Lingard

Lukaku Martial
 

Sideshow Bob

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Mourinho:
Our aim tomorrow is to qualify. Ten points would be ok to qualify but our main aim is to finish first in the group. We know the stats are what they are but Basel has good results vs CSKA and Benfica. Benfica will give us a difficult match. They have their own ambition and pride and they will try to win, we just want to get to the last 16 by finishing first in the group.”
 

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From the outside we can all easily say "Shaw deserves a chance" etc. but the reality is he's obviously not doing something to earn a start. To my eye he plays well when he does get a chance but we don't know what goes on in training and don't know the inside details, is he fit enough?

I'd be surprised if he did start here, if he was going to get a start it surely would have been last week v Swansea, this is a bigger game. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't even on the bench. Darmian, Young and Blind are all currently ahead of him in the pecking order with Rojo coming back too, it's hard to see a way back in for him despite the need for an improvement in quality at left back which points to his departure and a signing to follow.
 

jsp

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I don't think it's a case of him deserving a chance like you say he has to earn it but after not starting in the league cup and being chucked on for 5 minutes which maybe felt like a kick up the backside, you feel if he doesn't done enough in the week since to impress the manager it's game over for him.

I think the way back for him is proving to the manager his attitude is right and that he's fit the one advantage he has over all these other guys is he's an actual left back all the other options are playing doing a job at left back out of position.
 

maxt7

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I saw a story yesterday that even Pochettino has questioned Shaw's fitness and mentality before. So that's Poch, LVG, Hodgson and now Jose that have all had their reservations about him. We just need his former Sunday league manager to say he was a pie boy as a kid and we've got the whole set. They cant all be wrong can they? They really cant. So yes as a fan I want to see Shaw playing tonight and more regularly, but if his not doing what's required behind the scenes then he can only blame himself for being down the pecking order.
 

the nuts named eric

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I've read that about Pochettino and some of the Saints Youth coaches too. But I have also read that even at Saints he was home sick, and needed a caring arm to get him through, something that Poch seems able to do better than most managers at the moment. Looks to me like Poch can read a player better than most and even if he is not the 'carer' he is advising his coaching team.

JM has said openly he canot deal with players that need that. He is authoritarian and it's 'my way or high way' unfortunately for Shaw/United is that Shaw is not on JM way, and it's likely he's gone this or next window.
 

maxt7

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I've read that about Pochettino and some of the Saints Youth coaches too. But I have also read that even at Saints he was home sick, and needed a caring arm to get him through, something that Poch seems able to do better than most managers at the moment. Looks to me like Poch can read a player better than most and even if he is not the 'carer' he is advising his coaching team.

JM has said openly he canot deal with players that need that. He is authoritarian and it's 'my way or high way' unfortunately for Shaw/United is that Shaw is not on JM way, and it's likely he's gone this or next window.
Fair point and I agree that Shaw wont be here for much longer. Which is a disappointment no matter what angle you look at this at. There's blame on Shaw and there's blame on Jose no doubt. It just feels like its a massive opportunity missed here that we as a club haven't been able to turn his potential into something more then being 4/5 choice at left back. There's various reason for this but they all equal the same thing. Maybe Jose cant be bothered with him. Maybe Shaw cant be bothered with Jose. Either way i'm watching Young, Darmian or Blind at LB each week and thinking "Where's Denis Irwin when you need him?"
 

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Yeah I think the Shaw situation is one of the most disappointing we’ve had for a while. It was disappointing to see the likes of Depay and Januzaj fail to deliver but Shaw was playing so well when he got that broken leg in PSV. Ever since then he has struggled to regain fitness and really convince the managers he’s ready. He has so much potential, the potential to be one of the very best left backs, the guy literally has everything but a good mental state/attitude it seems. When I see us chopping between Young, Darmian and Blind I’m saddened to think how far Shaw has fallen!
 

jsp

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One of the stories that constantly comes up with Shaw is that he currently lives in a city centre apartment with his brother and a few mates who he basically pays to be his little enourage to keep him company. Now their are plenty of accusations that he's seen out late in town quite a lot enjoying the attention of the ladies but he doesn't really drink and there are also questions about his diet, basically he's not living the life of a pro player where diet and rest are vital and he lives the life of a footballer during work hours but after trainings finished he lives more like a university student.

There's a mental element to this before that injury he'd got himself in tip top shape physically then some d*ckhead goes and breaks his leg with a bad tackle that didn't even get called as a free kick, I get the impression that he struggled with the rehab as it can be very lonely.

For me it comes down to 2 things he either isn't able to push himself hard enough to get back to the elite level of fitness required because every time he pushes something else breaks or mentally he just isn't up to the challenge because it is hard you need to live like a footballer 24/7 and that probably means kicking his mates out of his flat and spending 2-3 months with the physios getting himself back in shape.

I'm sort of on Mourinho's side with this one though Shaw got enough chances last season but every time he played him he kept braking down.
 

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Regarding Shaw I just think it is best for all concerned he moves on so he can get his career back on track and we can move on by buying a solid left back who will be the "Dennis Irwin" we need for the next few years (loved that ha Irwin was a stallion).

Re the game, I can't see Shaw starting, I think the line up might be something along the lines of:

DDG
Valencia Smalling Lindelof Darmian
Matic Herrera (maybe even McTominey)
Lingard Mata Martial
Lukaku
 

jsp

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Always hard to tell but Shaw didn't feature in the U23's at the weekend and a bit like Martial last season he's clearly trying to force him to bend to his will I'm sure there were loads of these incidents last season where one minute it looks like his career is over and the next he's starting a game. You never know what to believe in the press and where the stories have come from.

Quite a few reporting on social media that he's in the match day squad for tonight and some even reporting he's due to start the game. Given he won't feature vs Chelsea and after that it's internationals surely we need to give him some game time if we're trying to build his fitness. Assuming he still qualifies I'd be ringing up Boothroyd telling him to pick him for the U21 sides if he wants him as the lad needs to play some football.
 

SuperRash

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I would say he’s still eligible for the U21’s even though he’s 22. But think he’s a long way from even that call up. Shame really. If he does start tonight then I hope he does well.

Rumours are that Valencia and Jones will be rested so would say Lindelof and Darmian are in line to start.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Team: De Gea, Darmian, Bailly, Smalling, Blind, Matic, McTominay, Mata, Lingard, Martial, Lukaku.
 

SuperRash

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Not bad at all. Will be interesting to see how McTominay does. If that’s Lingard in the 10 role then that should be interesting also.

Definitely enough to beat Benfica who have lined up with a pretty attacking 4-3-3.
 

jsp

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Started poorly here not sure why he’s changed the system.

Got a break with the penalty but it was a poor one from Martial if you go low you have to hit the corners.

They need to get a grip on this game if they don’t feels like a matter of time before they score.
 

jsp

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That poor keeper probably hopes he never has to play us again, so unlucky.

Full backs are way to negative in this game need to give us something going forward.

Lukaku really should make it 2-0 there
 

jsp

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Mhiki has been garbage again can’t even do the basics at the moment not sure how to explain it.

Mata off Herrera on

To casual at the moment not enough urgency in our play.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Match day thread closed.

Please use existing Player Match Discussion threads or create new threads to discuss talking points in the Manchester United forum: Manchester United (link to Manchester United forum).
 
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