Champions League: CSKA Moscow v Manchester United

[Sideshow Bob]

V

Wednesday, 27th September 2017
Champions League, Group A
VEB Arena
19:45 BST​

 

[IDFD]

This is the hardest of the three away games because of the travelling involved. With Palace next followed by the international break I’d be tempted not to change too much. Probably just Martial for Rashford. Keep the momentum going and after the international break start to worry about squad rotation.

 

[maxt7]

Funny side CSKA in the sense that their team just doesn't ever seem to change. Tactically wise and player selection will be exactly the same as it's been for the last 5-10 years!

They will play with their back 5 with 3 centre halves. 2 of them have got to be best part of 40 years old each. Akinfeev the keeper, seems like his been there longer the the red square! No doubt there will be a few pacey Brazilians and Africans around but largely they will sit back and try to frustrate. No different to how every team we've played against this season has played!

I think Benfica will be a harder game. They will try to play and try to beat us, I don't think CSKA will. But as IDFD says the travelling isn't great and isn't ideal. It would be great to get 2 wins on the board before the Benfica matches so hopefully we go attacking.

Could be a big match for Felliani against the old timers in Moscow. His height and physical play is a must in matches like this.

 

[jsp]

Isn't their some weird stat about their keeper not having kept a clean sheet in a decade in the CL?

They're part of the furniture in Europe but they have been group stage cannon fodder for a long time, I guess getting the trip in early before the snow comes helps Utd but it's still tricky and there will be very few away fans in the ground as visas on short notice are hard to get.

Hopefully Utd can get away with the 3 points I'd like to see Shaw get a start and get 60 minutes under his belt as for the rest you have to assume it'll be the usual line up with either Martial or Rashford wide.

 

[Edgy1968]

Yeah we always seem to have a trip to Moscow no matter what Euro competition we play, just glad we have Palace at home and not a Liverpool, City away etc, which is normally the norm.

He might make one or two changes, personally I don't think Mata should be starting, he has done sod all to warrant a place in the side so I would even bring Lingard in for him, Martial out wide and would maybe give Carrick a game and give Matic a res.

I really don't want to risk Jones fitness either so maybe Smalling in for him but that would be it, maybe Shaw as well haha

 

[jsp]

Reports are Fellaini hasn't travelled as he picked up a knock vs Southampton at the weekend so I guess that means either Carrick or Herrera in from the start.

Personally I'd look to start Herrera he's not looked great so far but he looks short of match fitness/sharpness so he needs minutes as he won't play the internationals it's the same with Mata we can sort of run him into the ground a bit as he gets a 2 week break whenever the internationals come around as he's not currently being selected by the national team.

 

[Edgy1968]

Yeah I would give Matic a break and play Carrick/Herrera, maybe even play Mata as a No. 10 on Wednesday as he has been dreadful on the right, give Miki a break still be strong with Lukaku Mata Lingard Martial with Herrera and Carrick behind, great that we have Palace then international break, get the travelling done and dusted

 

[jsp]

I think when it comes to trips like this if they've made the journey you need to play them if you want to rest them leave them at home and this is champions league football there's no room for messing about so I'd be starting all my key players which Matic & Mhiki are, both got a few days off last week when they sat out the Burton game so they should be ready for 3 games in a week before the internationals.

It'll be interesting to see what he does tactically for this one the 3 man midfield didn't really work away to Stoke and Utd should back their XI to beat CSKA even on their own patch the schedule has worked out ok we've not played Sunday then had to rush to Moscow for a Tuesday game.

 

[maxt7]

Fancied a rant so here we go... I know it's always been the same..... but the arranging of the fixtures by the FA amazes me.

Fortnight ago it was Tuesday at Home to Basel, Sunday at home to Everton. So 4 days at home. Now it's CSKA Moscow away on a Wednesday, Palace at home on a Saturday. Leaving 2 days after traveling over 4,000 miles! Actually it's not 2 days because the lads won't be back till early Thursday morning at best.

Not just United but all the British clubs in the champions league should get more support from the FA when they are out there flying that British flag in the CL. Think they should introduce different times for Matches to be played. Like Sunday nights after midweek excursion, or get the Friday night slots the weekend before champions league matches. Give teams the maximum amount of time to rest prior to or after long trips out to the continent. Do we really need to see Brighton vs Bournemouth? Really?

Happens in Germany, France and Spain. The big boys are more often then not playing on a Friday night or last thing on a Sunday. Here's an example ; last Friday night was Bayern vs Wolfsburg. Ahead of the PSG match on WEDNESDAY! Then they are not until playing to Sunday anyway. Surely in a league that everyone would agree is the toughest and most competitive, the FA should be helping and supporting the clubs trying to win the most prestigious competition? There's no winter break here. Two cup competitions. Hard matches week in week out. So from September onwards its burn out for teams trying to win it all. I know your really busy in there at the FA, stacking your paperclips everyday must tiring, but come on! Try and help the English sides please.

 

[IDFD]

I actually think the fixture list has worked out rather kind for us though. We don't need to see Brighton vs Bournemouth but these clubs fans also pay their Sky Subscriptions and do need to be shown enough times throughout the season for it to be fair on them also. As United fans we get to see our club on TV probably 25+ times in all comps. These fans will see their clubs shown 8-10 times a season.

 

[Edgy1968]

Agree with both points above, one of my best mates is a QPR fan and he is always like ah would love to be on tele as much as you boys so you have to be fair to all fans throughout the season.

But I do agree that English sides are massively hampered when it comes to European competition, every other country bend over backwards to help out their sides, no mental xmas fixtures, winter breaks, playing on fridays and early saturdays to give plenty of rest time etc.

The issue in the UK is that we are so focused on making money through tv revenue that they basically have the say so now when it comes to who plays at what time, how rare are 3pm kick off times, there are now 11.30am kick off times, which I find incredible, I won't be going to any games at that time, like a god dam morgue.

 

[maxt7]

Its only kind because of the opposition we are playing on Saturday. The fact that we are making a trip like that on a Wednesday the playing on a Saturday is Harsh. Especially compared to other bigger European sides who seem to get more of a lay off between fixtures.

Let Brighton and Bournemouth play on telly sure. But give them the 12.30 on Saturday slot not the Friday night game when others could play who are travelling far away.

 

[IDFD]

Oh yeah I meant in terms of the opposition. We're home 4 of the 6 times after European football. The two aways are against Chelsea and Huddersfield. But the Chelsea one we can't moan too much as Chelsea are away to Roma whilst we're at home to Benfica on the same night.

The weekend we play City after a game in Europe we play at home on the Tuesday. They play in Ukraine on the Wednesday. This weeks a pain but it's generally worked out alright for us.

 

[jsp]

Problem is fixtures for premier league are drawn before european groups are drawn and I believe the premier league committed to not changing games for TV at less than 6 weeks notice because fans were getting frustrated over games getting changed at late notice as hotels, flights and trains cost money. It's alright for those of us who watch on TV but kick off times changing at late notice are a nightmare for the people who actually go to the games and they should get first priority.

So our 2 recent games were fixed as Saturday 3pm kick offs unfortunately for us the way the draw went we were always going to be away that midweek as a pot 2 team and even more unlucky we ended up being on the Wednesday round plus being away in Moscow as a result of the group we were drawn in and the team who came out of pot 4.

I think it's just real bad luck pulling Moscow out of pot 4 but imagine if we'd had a Sunday game last weekend rather than a Satuday game? Also, because of the 3pm blackout the TV companies need to be make sure that everyone gets fair representation as each club has to be shown a certain number of times per season live on TV as part of the deal.

 

[Edgy1968]

Yeah we have had some absolute mares re hotels/flights and stuff, the last people the club or tv companies think about is us lot, remember going to the semi final at Wembley and they had the london marathon on, arsenal v liverpool, us v city in the semi and there was something else on as well, london was manic and they put no trains on to get us back up north and hotels were a fortune.

There is just no common sense from the premier league or organizers regarding tv showings as I remember talking to a few Southampton fans last year, think we played them on a Friday or Monday night can't remember and they were saying 8pm kick off, how are we all supposed to get back, was just carnage.

The way it is though and has been for years, not gonna lie I am looking forward to telling the missus that im off to portugal or spain or italy for about £400 return to watch united for a day and a half, always goes down well haha

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Carrick, Fellaini and Jones are unavailable.

 

[jsp]

That game vs Southampton was a Friday night game at the start of last season, I'm going to a game in a few weeks it's a 5.30 KO and last train south is at 8.30 so you can't really rely on trains especially at weekends because of engineering works overnight.

I think the rules about 6 weeks in advance is fairly new might only be 12 months or so since it came in but the issue is if you aren't picked for TV it becomes hard to get clubs/PL to agree to change the day.

 

[jsp]

Carrick, Fellaini and Jones are unavailable.

Might need to edit my line up prediction for a 3rd time

Be interesting to see who gets the start with Bailly, lindelof or smalling?

If they've got anyone good in the air it feels like it can't be Lindelof he's very weak in the air at the moment.

 

[maxt7]

They haven't got that traditional big 6 foot 4 Eastern European unit up top. They seem to be going with a few pacey players up there. Lindelof didn't look a slow coach in the few times we've watched him, so I don't think he'd be out of depth against these.

If any one made the mistake of watching the confederations cup in summer like I did, then they would have seen Golovin play. His like Russia's golden boy. We are struggling in central midfield and he might be a handful.

But other then that these aren't dangerous at all. Can see us getting out with a routine 2 nil European win. Possibly with our late goal rush we love doing at the minute. Then we can read all about how defensive and negative Jose is all over again!

 

[Edgy1968]

Yeah I get very nervous watching Lindelof play at the moment, for the amount of decent centre backs that were available this summer he seems like he has a fair way to go to be anywhere near the level of Bailly and Jones, personally I would rest Jones and give Smalling a shout tonight, knowing Southgate he will he will play Jones in both England games so I would give him a breather tonight, play him v Palace and then he will play a few times for England.

Always seems to be more the conditions than the actual quality of the opposition when we play in Moscow, any kind of win tonight I would rip ya hand off, get in, get the points and get out with no injuries, job done.

 

[jsp]

Not sure the reason for Jones not travelling has been confirmed but you have to assume it's injury rather than rotation it could be that he's playing with a slight knock so they've decided not to risk him. Hopefully he's back at the weekend but he is a starter for England currently and rightly so as Cahill is struggling to get in the Chelsea side, Smalling can't get in the Utd team and Keane is settling in at Everton whereas Jones is playing pretty well.

Lindelof just looks like he's still finding his feet he's quite small and doesn't seem to be particularly strong or have a good leap so he's going to need a bit of work to get him ready for the rough and tumble of premier league as you have to be good in the air to survive in the Premier League you don't need to be 6ft 5 to be good in the air either but unless he can sort out that particular weakness he will struggle.

I think he's been bought as a project we knew he wasn't ready so he's being eased in we were probably wrong to assume he would go straight in because he cost £30m prices going the way they've gone £30m is what squad players cost anyway now.

 

[maxt7]

Lindelof seems like a similar situation to how Miki was handle by Jose. Just bedding him in little by little. Jose has got such a good record by in large of finding and developing center backs, so that makes me feel confident that Lindelof will come good. There's a massive spotlight on Lindelof from the press and rival fans which i dont really get because 30 million isn't a massive amount to spend on a young center half in this day and age anyway. But everything the lad does is getting scrutinized by idiots like Paul Merson. Ok his looked a little nervous here and there sure, but his also looked really composed on the ball. I wouldn't be bothered chucking him in tonight, i dont get that sense of dread like i do when i see Smalling's name on the team sheet. But if Jose wants to wait for league cups or home ties then fair enough.

 

[Edgy1968]

Yeah Jones might have a slight knock or as I think you said the other day, no point in them travelling if they are to be rested so he might just be having a break and a few days off, hopefully that's the case anyway, we will find out on Saturday I guess.

Yeah regarding Lindelof, I was expecting him to slot right in next to Bailly but he just looks so small and weak for a CB it's quite scary, obviously he is good at bringing the ball out from the back and assuming he has qualities in reading the game etc. but he definitely needs to work on his build, toughness, and having that commanding presence the premier league demands, at the moment the thought of Lindelof lining up for us at Anfield, City or Chelsea worries me! Hopefully Jones/Smalling/Bailly stay fit and then Rojo is back maybe in December so we should be ok.

 

[maxt7]

Yeah regarding Lindelof, I was expecting him to slot right in next to Bailly but he just looks so small and weak for a CB it's quite scary, obviously he is good at bringing the ball out from the back and assuming he has qualities in reading the game etc. but he definitely needs to work on his build, toughness, and having that commanding presence the premier league demands, at the moment the thought of Lindelof lining up for us at Anfield, City or Chelsea worries me! Hopefully Jones/Smalling/Bailly stay fit and then Rojo is back maybe in December so we should be ok.

I would agree with that. Although his 6 foot 2 he is lean compared to other center backs in the league. Maybe its because he has spend some of his career as a right back and has needed that pace and agility instead of bulk and muscle? Either way his got the frame because of his natural size and probably needs 6 months in a gym working on his physicality. Which is fine because we do have cover. I still think his going to come good because like you say he reads the game well and can bring out the ball like modern day defenders need to be able to do. But the only way his gonna learn the united way as such, is being thrown in there and doing it. It's just about picking the right moments. So yeah your right Liverpool, Chelsea, City no. But easier matches like the league cup and the Arsenal fixtures yes!

 

[Edgy1968]

The Arsenal fixtures hahaha love that! Is he 6"2 bloody hell did not realise that, yeah hopefully bulk up a bit very similar to De Gea when he joined, he looked like a 15 year old and obviously he hammered the gym for 6/8 months and then bulked up, hopefully he comes good, its very very rare that Jose makes a mistake when buying a CB so I am expecting him to be sound, Jones and Bailly keep it up then he is in no rush, would have been a nightmare if he had to come straight into the firing line but he can just pick his games, work on his game and bulk him up so should be fine

 

[jsp]

There probably is a bit of a training programme going on in the background like there was with Mhiki to get him physically ready I think Mourinho has already compared him to Carvalho in terms of playing style and said that even he needed time to adapt and he was a lot more experienced than Lindelof when he bought him with him to Chelsea. Lindelof has a touch of the young Rio about him he's very cool and laid back and sometimes he slips to much into that comfort zone and gets caught out and the speed and frantic nature of the game in England means you have to be switched on at all times.

Personally I'd like to see him start tonight but it might be we don't see him at his best until next season.

Lets not forget we will also have Rojo back after Xmas and he was playing brilliantly before his injury if he can get back to that level then he's arguably a starter, the good news is the form and more importantly fitness of Jones so far this season has meant we haven't had to rush Lindelof in.

 

[IDFD]

Didn’t realise Jones hadn’t travelled. Got him in my predicted 11

 

[Edgy1968]

is it to late to start this predict 11 thing or can I jump on board?

 

[jsp]

Didn’t realise Jones hadn’t travelled. Got him in my predicted 11

Same I'm on my 3rd revision of my predicted team because of injuries.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

is it to late to start this predict 11 thing or can I jump on board?

Jump on board: SEA's Lineups Prediction Game 2017/18

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Team: De Gea, Young, Lindelof, Bailly, Smalling, Blind, Matic, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Lukuka.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

What a top goal.

 

[Berba_God]

Who scored? I am on my way home from work

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Who scored? I am on my way home from work

Lukaku.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

As cool as you like Martial. 2-0, penalty.