Champions League 2021/22 - Young Boys vs Man Utd - Tuesday 14th September 5:45pm

O-Dog said:
'Off the cuff' football is the riff of Ole's tenure. He should've moved past that by now.
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The longer you watch it the longer you feel there isn’t much behind the tactics still early season and new players to bed in but alarm bells do ring for me. He’s got his contract now so he’s not going anywhere and needs to show there’s more to his plan than just having XI good players there needs to be better plans in place.

Take the midfield how can you be consistent in a style when you have 4 or 5 players who are all totally different and each combo requires a different way of playing that is not good.

Today we suffered an early shock to our system and we just couldn’t recover from it against a hard working opponent.
 
IDFD said:
I don't care that we were down to 10 men. Most sides with the victory will manage the game out comfortably it was a shocking piece of game management. It can hardly be questioned how much I like Ole and think he's done well but that was shocking from him.

There is simply no need to make the daft decision to go 5 at the back and have Pogba in a 2 and invite pressure on all game.
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Do you think his coaching staff is presenting some kind of statistics to him to use certain formations at certain junctures? Is Ole making the decision by himself? Honestly asking, I don't know. Just like how he didn't freshen up his sides early enough last season, there are some really stupid and easily avoidable errors he keeps making. I find it hard to believe Carrick could have stood there next to Ole and agreed that 5 at the back with Pogba in a 2 would be a good idea. Where are these mistakes coming from?
 
I don’t think the system caused the issues tonight it was pretty clear 4-4-1 wasn’t working I think 5-3-1 pretty much did the job he needed it to do but individuals let it down. At 1-0 with 11 men we were comfortable in the game neither side really threatened but it was not a game we had dominance in.

Individually mistakes caused the defeat.

Wan Bissaka gets a straight red
Shaw gets caught to far inside and doesn’t sprint out to stop a cross which breaks their way for the equaliser.
Lingard plays a dumb pass for the winner.

I don’t think Young Boys put a foot wrong tonight even our goal I’d say that’s just pure quality from 2 world class players. Before/After that they didn’t give us a sniff going forward with 10 or 11 players.

That is football at the very top level you can’t make mistakes and when the opponent does you have to be ruthless.
 
I don't think he makes the choices himself, radio kept saying he was in deep conversation with Carrick and Mckenna. Even Fletcher. But no mention of phelan for some reason.

I have my doubts about McKenna
 
Cosmic Slop said:
Do you think his coaching staff is presenting some kind of statistics to him to use certain formations at certain junctures? Is Ole making the decision by himself? Honestly asking, I don't know. Just like how he didn't freshen up his sides early enough last season, there are some really stupid and easily avoidable errors he keeps making. I find it hard to believe Carrick could have stood there next to Ole and agreed that 5 at the back with Pogba in a 2 would be a good idea. Where are these mistakes coming from?
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I'd hope he's not making these decisions himself. And that his team are putting up suggestions. I mean everyone knew Fergie was better when Quieroz was alongside him. Phelan and Kidd also great people alongside him. I'd really hope everyone else isn't a yes man to Ole.

But I'd also think he needs to bring in an attack minded coach.
 
jsp said:
I don’t think the system caused the issues tonight it was pretty clear 4-4-1 wasn’t working I think 5-3-1 pretty much did the job he needed it to do but individuals let it down. At 1-0 with 11 men we were comfortable in the game neither side really threatened but it was not a game we had dominance in.

Individually mistakes caused the defeat.

Wan Bissaka gets a straight red
Shaw gets caught to far inside and doesn’t sprint out to stop a cross which breaks their way for the equaliser.
Lingard plays a dumb pass for the winner.

I don’t think Young Boys put a foot wrong tonight even our goal I’d say that’s just pure quality from 2 world class players. Before/After that they didn’t give us a sniff going forward with 10 or 11 players.

That is football at the very top level you can’t make mistakes and when the opponent does you have to be ruthless.
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Must have been watching a different game. Even with 11 on the pitch, YB still dominated possession.
Against a team we should find no problem, we had problems from the start. Our right hand side consisted of AWB, DvDB and Sancho. A threat to virtually no team, esp in ECL.
This season started with 5 against Leeds, then a mediocre performance against Southampton followed by 3 points against a Wolves side that realistically should have beat us all ends up.
Who's supporting OGS in the dugout? Does it matter. He won't win trophies or championships.
Compared to Guadiola, Klopp, Tuchell, Nagelsman or Conte, among many others, I just can't see much happening!
More toxic spiel, I'll be accused of, perhaps, but sometimes reality can hurt!!!
 
Did you just call Sancho a no threat player?

Wow you're quick to turn on them.
 
Macariman said:
Must have been watching a different game. Even with 11 on the pitch, YB still dominated possession.
Against a team we should find no problem, we had problems from the start. Our right hand side consisted of AWB, DvDB and Sancho. A threat to virtually no team, esp in ECL.
This season started with 5 against Leeds, then a mediocre performance against Southampton followed by 3 points against a Wolves side that realistically should have beat us all ends up.
Who's supporting OGS in the dugout? Does it matter. He won't win trophies or championships.
Compared to Guadiola, Klopp, Tuchell, Nagelsman or Conte, among many others, I just can't see much happening!
More toxic spiel, I'll be accused of, perhaps, but sometimes reality can hurt!!!
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Why do you think Utd should just rock up and smash them? This is a team that wins it's league every season, they are clearly very well organised and we will find the exact same problems with Villareal and Atalanta at this level there are no mugs. Utd certainly aren't the power we once were who can just walk over teams. This is 2021 not 2008 Utd are and have been for a very long time a good europa league but an average champions league team.

Utd fans have got to get a grip of where we are as a club right now we are still learning the ropes again at this level and yes things need to improve that why we've spent the money on proven CL players like Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo.

I'd like to think we watched the same game first 35 minutes Utd created two good chances they created one we get a man sent off and end up holding on until half time and really despite all their possession in the second half did they ever actually look like scoring?

I do pretty much agree with what you say about Ole taking us to the promised land again looking unlikely but he's massively improved this club from the toxic pit it was when he found it. I don't think he should have got that new contract in the summer but again I can see why he got it but everyone agrees the pressure is on for him he has to deliver better results again this season. It may need a better manager to come in and push them up to the very top of the game but having done the hard graft to build this club back up he deserves a proper crack.

So yeah we've had a big set back in game 1 we've not got 5 games to put it right if he doesn't put it right and Utd don't get out the group stage again it will be a massive failure.
 
They said on the radio, last time they were in the CL they beat Juve, or Milan... one of the big Italian clubs.

Dodgy pitch, hotile crowd, 10 men. I'm not too concerened. Probably Ole wouldn't make the same subs knowing then what he does now. But it's a learning curve. But I don't think the result is as bad as being made out.

We should still qualify. Thats all that matters.
 
jsp said:
Why do you think Utd should just rock up and smash them? This is a team that wins it's league every season, they are clearly very well organised and we will find the exact same problems with Villareal and Atalanta at this level there are no mugs. Utd certainly aren't the power we once were who can just walk over teams. This is 2021 not 2008 Utd are and have been for a very long time a good europa league but an average champions league team.

Utd fans have got to get a grip of where we are as a club right now we are still learning the ropes again at this level and yes things need to improve that why we've spent the money on proven CL players like Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo.

I'd like to think we watched the same game first 35 minutes Utd created two good chances they created one we get a man sent off and end up holding on until half time and really despite all their possession in the second half did they ever actually look like scoring?

I do pretty much agree with what you say about Ole taking us to the promised land again looking unlikely but he's massively improved this club from the toxic pit it was when he found it. I don't think he should have got that new contract in the summer but again I can see why he got it but everyone agrees the pressure is on for him he has to deliver better results again this season. It may need a better manager to come in and push them up to the very top of the game but having done the hard graft to build this club back up he deserves a proper crack.

So yeah we've had a big set back in game 1 we've not got 5 games to put it right if he doesn't put it right and Utd don't get out the group stage again it will be a massive failure.
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No, we've no right to smash them. MUFC are the biggest fan based club in the world. Resources, boundless. But no, we have no right to go to club's who came thru qualifiers and expect/ demand a Utd victory, how dare we.
The most saddening aspect of that game, apart from our substitutions, was the final score.
The stats ran it a close 2nd. 2 shots at goal all game.
If your satisfied with OGS's long term plan, you must be very easily pleased!
 
Mr C said:
They said on the radio, last time they were in the CL they beat Juve, or Milan... one of the big Italian clubs.

Dodgy pitch, hotile crowd, 10 men. I'm not too concerened. Probably Ole wouldn't make the same subs knowing then what he does now. But it's a learning curve. But I don't think the result is as bad as being made out.

We should still qualify. Thats all that matters.
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How long should the manager of the biggest and most proud club on the planet, learning curve last?
Should qualify? Of course, but there's also a small matter of pride which most of us behold!
 
I have supported Ole all along but he does make it hard to support him when he manages like this.
There is no more time to learn as he goes style, he should be bossing games now
Not saying we expect to win every game but a obvious and noteable plan b should be learnt by now .
Yes AWB and Lingard mucked up but those subs and tactics did not make any sense whatsoever.
I really think this season he needs to win something and also show much more tactical awareness or i think he will be off.
Hope we smash the hammers.4-0 thats my optomistic scoreline
 
nonewname said:
I have supported Ole all along but he does make it hard to support him when he manages like this.
There is no more time to learn as he goes style, he should be bossing games now
Not saying we expect to win every game but a obvious and noteable plan b should be learnt by now .
Yes AWB and Lingard mucked up but those subs and tactics did not make any sense whatsoever.
I really think this season he needs to win something and also show much more tactical awareness or i think he will be off.
Hope we smash the hammers.4-0 thats my optomistic scoreline
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I've not supported Ole being chosen from Day 1.
Hasn't shown anything to allay my fears in his 3 year tenure and, unfortunately, don't expect him to, no matter how long he's given.
Way above his pay grade!
 
Macariman said:
How long should the manager of the biggest and most proud club on the planet, learning curve last?
Should qualify? Of course, but there's also a small matter of pride which most of us behold!
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I would think Barca, Madrid, Munich, Juve, Liverpool etc etc would disagree with you there.

We are on an upward curve, thats all you can ask for. He needs a trophy this year for sure. But we are 5 games in.

CL football I do think is a different game, so I will give him time to learn during that. Prem league - no excuses.
 
Mr C said:
I would think Barca, Madrid, Munich, Juve, Liverpool etc etc would disagree with you there.

We are on an upward curve, thats all you can ask for. He needs a trophy this year for sure. But we are 5 games in.

CL football I do think is a different game, so I will give him time to learn during that. Prem league - no excuses.
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So we bring in a manager and give him 4 yrs to learn???
End of!
 
Isn't this only his third year in the CL? So two years prior to this.

And yes, I do think you need to learn to play in that competition. I imagine it's fans like you that were calling for Fergies head.

We could use the stat in his full seasons in control he has taken us to the CL every season, more than the previous managers could do.
 
If we hadn't ballsed up the group stage last season this probably wouldn't get the reaction it got but we did so there will be focus on it as that performances had many hallmarks of that result in Istanbul last season where we also gave away a really stupid goal.

He's got 5 games to sort it out now and qualify I don't think anyone really thinks we can win the Champions League this season but we have to at least get through to the knockout stage anything else can only be declared a massive failure.
 
Mr C said:
Isn't this only his third year in the CL? So two years prior to this.

And yes, I do think you need to learn to play in that competition. I imagine it's fans like you that were calling for Fergies head.

We could use the stat in his full seasons in control he has taken us to the CL every season, more than the previous managers could do.
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3rd year, pardon me. 5 transfer windows.
Yeah, I was calling for Fergie's head, coz I was playing against Utd, twice a season then!
 
Mr C said:
Isn't this only his third year in the CL? So two years prior to this.

And yes, I do think you need to learn to play in that competition. I imagine it's fans like you that were calling for Fergies head.

We could use the stat in his full seasons in control he has taken us to the CL every season, more than the previous managers could do.
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Realistically this is only his second attempt at the Champions League.

Counting his first season where he joined midseason and we were a complete mess and took on PSG and Barcelona in the knockout stages isn't really getting use to managing his squad through a season and the group stages.
 
I think it would be fair to discount the games from his first season and just focus on group games.

7 games 3 wins 4 defeats in group stage matches under Ole.

3 home games 2 wins 1 defeat
4 away games 1 win 3 defeats

Last season I think we had the excuse of lack of experience and really tough group this year we don't have that excuse we've added experience to the squad and the group is nowhere near as tough.

Quite simply failure again this season can't be accepted.
 
jsp said:
Yeah I think the first sub could have been Van De Beek get us into a 4-3-1-1 quickly but he had to go to a back 3 at half time
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He had to go back 3 because of his own mistake to not start with Varane. I just don't get that and it spiralled from there.
 
jsp said:
I think it would be fair to discount the games from his first season and just focus on group games.

7 games 3 wins 4 defeats in group stage matches under Ole.

3 home games 2 wins 1 defeat
4 away games 1 win 3 defeats

Last season I think we had the excuse of lack of experience and really tough group this year we don't have that excuse we've added experience to the squad and the group is nowhere near as tough.

Quite simply failure again this season can't be accepted.
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Right, but... who comes in if we fail? To me the reasons we fail also have to be taken into consideration. Let's say any one of Bruno, Ronaldo, Pogba get a longterm injury. Then what? We fail, Ole gets the chop and we bring in...?
 
RichH2016 said:
He had to go back 3 because of his own mistake to not start with Varane. I just don't get that and it spiralled from there.
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I don't think that was the case Lindelof wasn't struggling in the game I admit it was odd not starting Varane they had to go back 3 because they were flooding forward in numbers where I felt the mistake was made was the midfield in front of them all became to deep leaving the striker totally isolated.

None of the midfielders he had on the pitch really had the energy to get up to support Ronaldo when we were trying to get out no one had the energy or maybe the bravery to make a sprint forward into some space to catch the opponent out.
 
Cosmic Slop said:
Right, but... who comes in if we fail? To me the reasons we fail also have to be taken into consideration. Let's say any one of Bruno, Ronaldo, Pogba get a longterm injury. Then what? We fail, Ole gets the chop and we bring in...?
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I mean if they all got injured you'd probably have to give him a pass and say bad luck but one of them getting injured still leaves you Greenwood, Cavani, Sancho, Martial, Lingard, Mata, VDB and potentially Rashford in a few weeks time.

Players will get injured so the team needs to be able to handle one injury as he's got a huge squad of players to chose from.

I'm not calling for his head so I don't have a list of names to bring in the obvious one doing the rounds in Conte personally I don't think he'd fit this squad so I'd probably swerve him but there will be good managers out there who'd happily take on this job. I think he's a great manager by the way just an absolute head case who doesn't seem to want to work with young players which we have lots of at the moment.
 
He's got to keep Lindelof match fit in case of injury. I see nothing wrong with protecting Varane from a dodgy pitch
 
Look we don't know what factor the pitch played in decision making over players.

The decision to put Lindelof in for me was a strange one surely you want to be building that understanding between the back 4 I don't think centre back is a particularly taxing position you don't see the top CB's taking rests for midweek games.

The pitch may have been a factor in the decision making process who knows but Lindelof coming back in wasn't exactly a shock.
 
jsp said:
I don't think that was the case Lindelof wasn't struggling in the game I admit it was odd not starting Varane
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It was baffling. It was ridiculous and it was absolutely the wrong choice. It made no sense at all.
 
RichH2016 said:
It was baffling. It was ridiculous and it was absolutely the wrong choice. It made no sense at all.
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Well we don't know the full story Varane might be playing with a bit of an injury that the medics didn't want to risk on that pitch unless they had to he is a player who's had a lot of injuries in his career. I don't recall Ole being questioned on it after the game for a reason for making that change.

Unless we get a red card or an injury in the defence it was very unlikely that Varane comes on in that game.

For me the stranger decision was to just chuck VDB into the midfield against a team that is known for it's high energy levels he's hardly played this season so chucking him in here for me felt a bit lamb to the slaughter. However, I think he knew he couldn't play Matic in this sort of game and maybe felt Greenwood needed a rest so decided to move Pogba back to the left and give VDB a start.

However, up to 35 minutes everything was going to plan but as Tyson once said "every man's got a plan until they get punched in the face."

Utd had control of the ball, created a few chances had scored the goal and the opponent hadn't really created anything but when that shock to the system came and a new plan was required we did have one but we executed it poorly in the end.
 

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