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RichH2016

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See maybe I'm giving too much credit to Herrera here but I could see a team like say Barca being interested in him!

I think he'd fit in really nicely with the way they play and could be a long term replacement for Iniesta. He has a lovely balance to his game and can speed up the tempo at the right moments.

Now that could be viewed in two ways. On the one hand you could say that any good player would look much better at Barca with their movement and the players in that side. But you've got to be a bloody good player to be in that team. And I honestly think Herrera would fit right in with his style of play.
 

bludsucker

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The real question is whether it's the midfielders job to create opportunities or the forwards job to create space for the killer pass. Ideally it should be both working towards the same outcome. I would have accepted your argument if we had seen some attacking intent shown by Herrera. For example say a forward pass into space which was not chased down by the forward. All I see from him is a pass back to the same player it has come from. He is not suited to be the deep lying midfielder role as he does not have the range of long passes to set up play. Neither does he have to movement to be a no. 10.
 

boothstownred

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Totally disagree about his movement. I think he is the one player we have that tries to move the ball quickly and get himself into space quickly. Can't disagree about his long range passing though.
 

RichH2016

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I would have accepted your argument if we had seen some attacking intent shown by Herrera. For example say a forward pass into space which was not chased down by the forward. All I see from him is a pass back to the same player it has come from.
OK firstly... Isn't a lot of Barcas play about little quick triangles? Passing back to the same player to try and pull defenses about? Plus he's playing for a manager who doesn't accept turning over possession... So of course he's not going to pass forwards when he knows full well that nobody will make the right run.

I'm not saying Herrera is a great player but we certainly carry much more of a threat with him in the team.
 

bludsucker

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OK firstly... Isn't a lot of Barcas play about little quick triangles? Passing back to the same player to try and pull defenses about? Plus he's playing for a manager who doesn't accept turning over possession... So of course he's not going to pass forwards when he knows full well that nobody will make the right run.

I'm not saying Herrera is a great player but we certainly carry much more of a threat with him in the team.
But then saying that he is barca quality player is giving him too much credit. Especially with his limited range of passing. I agree he can become a benchwarmer for them but not a regular first team player.
 

RichH2016

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But then saying that he is barca quality player is giving him too much credit. Especially with his limited range of passing. I agree he can become a benchwarmer for them but not a regular first team player.
OK that's down to opinion and we differ there. Maybe he's not good enough to be a regular right now but I think with the right players he could be a quality player. At Barca he wouldn't need a huge range of passing because it's mostly about short sharp passes. And I've seen him do that for us when he's around the right players. Some of his interplay with Mata last season at times was quality.
 

bludsucker

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OK that's down to opinion and we differ there. Maybe he's not good enough to be a regular right now but I think with the right players he could be a quality player. At Barca he wouldn't need a huge range of passing because it's mostly about short sharp passes. And I've seen him do that for us when he's around the right players. Some of his interplay with Mata last season at times was quality.
The barca under pep were tiki taka. Now a couple of managers later their play has a mix of short as well as long passes. I admit I haven't seen much of them but whenever I have seen them they use a bit of direct football too. By direct football I mean passes down the channel.
 

RichH2016

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The barca under pep were tiki taka. Now a couple of managers later their play has a mix of short as well as long passes. I admit I haven't seen much of them but whenever I have seen them they use a bit of direct football too. By direct football I mean passes down the channel.
Haha yeah don't worry I wasn't having images on Wimbledon route one football! :)

Yes I agree they vary their play more but I still think there would be a place for Herrera. OK his long range passing isn't great but you can kind of work around that I think. But anyway it's all a mute point as he's ours. And we as a club need to get the best out of him.
 

Sideshow Bob

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FC Midtjylland 2-1 Manchester United - 18th February 2016

He's unlikely to force his way into the starting XI after tonight's performance.
 

RichH2016

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Can anyone really blame him though?!

Usually when he's played he's been a really key player. He makes us tick, increases the tempo of our play and looks lively. Yet he won't get much of a run in the team and he's back on the bench.

I bet he's feeling a bit like: doesn't matter if I perform or not. The manager will have me on the bench next game anyway.

He's fallen behind Fellaini in the pecking order yet for me he's one of the few players who tries to make things happen. But then of course he's a risk taker and so isn't the kind of player LVG likes apparently.
 

bludsucker

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Some risks need not be taken imo. Like when he lost the ball at the edge of our penalty area by blindly flicking the ball back. Like I said before his passing range is very limited for him to play as a deep lying midfielder and his tackling and tracking back is even shitter for him to play as a box to box midfielder. If his performances are suffering coz of being kept out of the team then he is not good enough to be a United player. Take fellaini for example he responded brilliantly to being kept out of the team by stepping up last season and also this season. If he doesn't care enough to step up for us then he shouldn't be here.
 

RichH2016

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I think we need to be careful here though...

People are being fooled in to thinking that Fellaini has really turned in the performances. He's really not he's just been the best of a bad bunch. And even then I don't think he's stood out. But that's my own opinion.

I get that Herrera should respond better if he's being left out of the team. That's what we expect from Manchester United players but a lot of the time he's got to wonder what he has to do? Being dropped for poor form is one thing. Being dropped because actually you take risks to make things happen and most the time it pays off is another all together...
 

bludsucker

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Don't think that Herrera takes the right risk in my opinion. If the risk is taken at the edge of the opposition box and results in a goal or a chance is good. But he rarely takes that risk. He takes risk in our half by pinging balls to defenders or passing blind to a fellow midfielder which usually results in possession being turned over and leads to a goal. If fellaini is the best of a bad bunch how do you give leeway to Herrera considering he has been worse than fellaini all season.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Herrera was given a run of 4/5 consecutive games in December/January but he failed to impress.

He's another who will perform better in a 3-man midfield.
 

RichH2016

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Thought in the last two games he played really well.

Yes that's in part down to fairly poor opposition but when you get pace and movement around this guy he'll thrive!

Against most teams we tend to really dominate possession so I don't think it's just down to the low standard. In the last two games we've played more on the front foot and with more pace and purpose. A big reason for that is the players that are playing ahead of Herrera.
 

bludsucker

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Don't think he put in a performance that was anything other than okay. His header miss was atrocious. Put in a shift and did nothing wrong.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Manchester United 3-2 Arsenal - 28th February 2016

He was good after a slow start.

 

JSNFRMN

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Possibly his best performance this season. Playing the role he excelled in last season. Pressing game was on point, seemed to make a lot of tackles. Wicked deflection but got in the right position.
 

bludsucker

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He had a good game. One of his better performances. He did well to win the ball for our first goal and set up varela out wide. His goal was well taken albeit a deflection.
 

IrishManc.

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I thought he was excellent. Battling performance in the midifeld, he won the midfield battle I felt. I like him in that deeper midfield role however he only seems to play there when others are injured.
 

Sideshow Bob

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Manchester United 1-1 West Ham United - 13th March 2016

Much better in the second half.
 

Sideshow Bob

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West Ham United 3-2 Manchester United - 10th May 2016

Very poor tonight.
 

bludsucker

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He was very very poor. He gave away fouls when they were avoidable. That put us under unnecessary pressure.
 

boothstownred

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Yeah he was bad. I like him generally but truth be told we probably need better. Whether bringing in better makes him better I am not too sure.
 

RichH2016

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For me... I'd give him next season just to see what he can do with better players and movement. For so much of this season we have been static and pedestrian and that is hard then for clever, quick minded players to truly flourish. I'm not saying he's definitely good enough for our club but I think he deserves a chance to play in a more dynamic team.
 
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