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Sideshow Bob

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United's win rate under Solskjaer as permanent manager. 3 wins in 14 games. Still early days, but...
 

RichH2016

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Sometimes when you know something isn't right you have to act. Results since he was announced as permanent boss have been worse than any of the post Fergie managers. Yet he will get time because of who he is.
 

jsp

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That’s why he was an interim the club should have stuck to the plan and judged him on 6 months not 6 weeks but they panicked and decided he was the man.

I think the results will be bad but I do think he’s doing the right thing in clearing the decks but I think he’s put way to much faith in the youth.

He should have got more players in this summer reinforcements were needed in midfield and attack.
 

RichH2016

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I do think he’s doing the right thing in clearing the decks but I think he’s put way to much faith in the youth.
Why do people think this? Hes not calling those shots...
 

boothstownred

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Again it's that unanswerable questions. We are assuming it's Woodward but for all we know ole might be happy with what he has. To be honest I think ole is right to give youth a chance, especially with what we have, I just tend to think his choice of youngsters might be awry. Are mctomminay and Pereira even youngsters. They are inexperienced but not especially young
 

jsp

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Why do people think this? Hes not calling those shots...
We don’t know who’s calling the shots we have to assume it’s the manager who’s telling Woodward who to buy and sell that’s how it works here. Woodward might go and make the deal to buy or sell with other clubs but it’s Ole who’s shaping the squad.

We don’t know who we wanted and didn’t get there was a lot of talk about Rakitic but he apparently said he didn’t want to join us and then there was Dybala which was a similar story. These are two players basically being forced out of their current clubs who’d rather stay there and fight than risk coming here which isn’t good. The other player strongly linked was Longstaff but Newcastle set an unrealistic price and no CL probably cost us a real crack at someone like Sancho.

It does seem that this summer was in terms of players coming in only get the ones we really want if we can’t get them then wait don’t just sign anyone.
 

RichH2016

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We don’t know who’s calling the shots we have to assume it’s the manager who’s telling Woodward who to buy and sell that’s how it works here. Woodward might go and make the deal to buy or sell with other clubs but it’s Ole who’s shaping the squad.
Then Ole takes blame for a bad summer where we didn't add anywhere near enough.
 

SuperRash

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Then Ole takes blame for a bad summer where we didn't add anywhere near enough.
On the flip side is the right kind of player isn’t available then should we buy for the sake of buying? If the first targets don’t want to come or the clubs won’t sell then that’s not really the managers fault. Granted you should have a plan b but he seems to have a faith in youth so this is the hand we’ve been dealt. It’s not great that we didn’t add much attacking wise but our signings look bang on right now - just hasn’t been enough of them.
 

boothstownred

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The signings have been really good. It depends what you mean when you say don't just sign anybody. Clearly they have to be good enough. Hard to believe we can't find midfielders better than we have. I understand it's really difficult as it is a work in progress. I think there was a case to buy a midfield player in this window that may not be absolutely top quality but better than we have and helps with the numbers.
 

jsp

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Then Ole takes blame for a bad summer where we didn't add anywhere near enough.
But was it him not asking or Woodward not being able to get deals done?

We just don’t know if Ole can’t speak to the top players and convince them to come is that going to be a problem as he can’t sell his vision to them?

He obviously doesn’t have that record where players will think I want to work with him and while he’s an iconic Utd player I don’t think he’s a worldwide icon like a Zidane for example.

Forget the transfer now what’s done is done Ole needs to show he can forge a team on the pitch plug the gaps at the back and get us looking more dangerous going forward if he doesn’t show signs of that then pressure will grow.
 

Mr C

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lot of speculation on here :)

not sure what everyone was expecting, we're close to Chelsea, Spurs and Arse. As expected for me
 

Ben Townsend

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That’s why he was an interim the club should have stuck to the plan and judged him on 6 months not 6 weeks but they panicked and decided he was the man.

I think the results will be bad but I do think he’s doing the right thing in clearing the decks but I think he’s put way to much faith in the youth.

He should have got more players in this summer reinforcements were needed in midfield and attack.
Call me cruel here but, the guys in charge of appointing Ole did so because the results couldn't be argued with.

They appointed him in perfect timing as getting another manager in was more work and more money, and they have the reassurance that fans wont turn on him if results start going south - which they inevitably will do, and only time will tell who turns on the manager, I think a few already have.
 

Mr C

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I agree, I don' think you can say he should have got more players in. That's not down to him. Reports are 4 transfers were vetoed by the Glazers.

as for the football, it's better, thats all you can ask for, improvment, little by little.

Martial Pogba Rashford on all big and some new deals. They should be doing more, Rashford just doesn't look like that finisher we need.

He was the right manager to pick, the only other serious person was Poch, we're on the same points as Spurs with a worse team.
 

jsp

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Call me cruel here but, the guys in charge of appointing Ole did so because the results couldn't be argued with.

They appointed him in perfect timing as getting another manager in was more work and more money, and they have the reassurance that fans wont turn on him if results start going south - which they inevitably will do, and only time will tell who turns on the manager, I think a few already have.
I don't agree there was absolutely no need to rush it wasn't like Ole was going anywhere and plans could have been made for either situation it wasn't like getting Ole in on a permanent deal made anything else easier. That said if the club actually had a proper setup in place which was promised at the beginning of last season we could have stuck to that plan having an interim manager did kind of mean all plans are on hold as there isn't directors above the manager planning for next season.

In December he was given a 6 month deal to get us through the rest of the season that was the job and they shouldn't have gone off that plan as they did yes results were ridiculous but the performances were not reflective of the results. Mourinho going should have been the trigger for getting a director of football in and then his first job was assess the squad quickly plan the summer and look for a suitable manager.

But this is Utd and that doesn't happen as no one at the top has a vision for what the club should represent and be on the pitch as they're all money men so they'll make quick rash decisions as everything is plastering over cracks.

To be fair to Ole he's trying to build something long term but Moyes thought he was doing the same he thought he had years to build his Utd but you don't if you don't hit that top 4 target chances are you're gone.
 

RichH2016

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On the flip side is the right kind of player isn’t available then should we buy for the sake of buying? If the first targets don’t want to come or the clubs won’t sell then that’s not really the managers fault. Granted you should have a plan b but he seems to have a faith in youth so this is the hand we’ve been dealt. It’s not great that we didn’t add much attacking wise but our signings look bang on right now - just hasn’t been enough of them.
I would argue that this team needs to add players to get us back to top 4 and then players at the next level to push for the title eventually.
 

Mr C

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Paul Scholes thinks the likes of Paul Pogba, Ashley Young and Nemanja Matic are setting a bad example for the young players in Manchester United’s squad.

The Red Devils have had a mixed start to the season with five points from their opening four matches, with their only win a 4-0 thrashing of Chelsea.

However, their 1-1 draw at Southampton over the weekend has done little to convince anyone that United will be better than last term.

And Scholes was “disappointed” with a number of the senior players on Saturday as well as Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s decision to take off Juan Mata.

“I am disappointed. It looked like from when the moment Juan Mata went off, actually,” Scholes told Premier League Productions.

“I was surprised because I thought if anybody is going to create something it’s Juan Mata.

“But it wasn’t the young players I was disappointed with, it was more the experienced players.

“When Matic came on he constantly gave the ball away, Ashley Young gave the ball away, I don’t know how many times Paul Pogba lost possession. These are the people that young players are looking up to, the examples you’re looking at.

“I think you almost have to write United off for the next two years, this team, until Ole Gunnar has cleared everything he wants out, has four or five transfer windows, United are going to be behind Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham.

“I think this is United at the minute, you have to be patient with the young players, but the experienced players have to step up.

“We’ve seen over and over again how many mistakes experienced players are making, it’s difficult for young players to come into a team like that.”
 

jsp

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Hard to argue with him the senior players need to be carrying the youngsters but I think we know that apart from Pogba these senior players just aren't up to the standard and he should be including De Gea in that list he's captain of this team in most games.

Scholes had players like Schmeichel, Bruce, Pallister, Keane, Irwin, Cantona etc looking after them when they came in this lot just aren't going to have that.

This next generation are learning from guys who've failed to deliver not guys who've actually delivered.

I think that's why Mourinho made a big play for Zlatan when he came in he wanted proven winners in his squad to set those standards on and off the pitch he hoped Matic would do the same but he's declined quicker than he probably expected.
 

Sideshow Bob

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17 points in 15 games since he was appointed permanent manager.
 

Mr C

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no ones doubts its poor at the moment. I just think we need to give someone time. It's no quick fix.
 

jsp

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Time given to the right person is vital time given to the wrong person could be a disaster.

People say Klopp & Pep had time before they delivered which is true but things didn't exactly get worse before they got better and there was obvious signs of what they wanted to do.

Any manager in the current environment will be deemed a failure but this level of performance can't be tolerated if it keeps going this way we will be in a relegation fight that's not even an over reaction anymore and it doesn't feel like it's turning any time soon.
 

RichH2016

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Time given to the right person is vital time given to the wrong person could be a disaster.

People say Klopp & Pep had time before they delivered which is true but things didn't exactly get worse before they got better and there was obvious signs of what they wanted to do.
Spot on. People talk about giving Ole time just like they did every previous manager after Fergie. You don't give time to the wrong man and so far Ole has done nothing to suggest he's the right man.
 

IDFD

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I was talking to an Arsenal season ticket holder yesterday about this and he was shocked to hear people were calling for Ole’s Head. Though was very much a part of the Wenger In crowd. He said looking on he’d assumed United fans would be happy with the signings made this summer and feel a sense the club was starting to get back to itself and that he thought it was obvious it wasn’t going to be an overnight transition in to a great side again.
 

RichH2016

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I was talking to an Arsenal season ticket holder yesterday about this and he was shocked to hear people were calling for Ole’s Head. Though was very much a part of the Wenger In crowd. He said looking on he’d assumed United fans would be happy with the signings made this summer and feel a sense the club was starting to get back to itself and that he thought it was obvious it wasn’t going to be an overnight transition in to a great side again.
Why would any United fan be happy? The results are dire, the performances are dross and it's much the same from last year.
 

IDFD

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Had the Arsenal fan seen any of United’s performances?
The only one I could vouch for that he’s seen would be the United vs Arsenal game.

And Tbf he wants Emery sacked can’t stand his style of football and thinks Arsenal are in a worst position than United. Aubamayang in to the last 18 months of his contract and the wrong side of 30 and not looking to sign. Xhaka as their captain whilst Torriera sits on the bench. Ozil not getting any minutes when he’s their best creative player. And a team that looks like they’re coached by 3 different managers. A defence that’s told to play it short and a midfield that pushes up when the keeper as the ball. (Can’t say i’d noticed the later)

I’ve never advocated the sacking of a manager and certainly wouldn’t within 10 games of the season starting.

There were people actively wanting us to lose under Mourinho so we got a new manager and now it’s the same people advocating change again.
 

IDFD

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Why would any United fan be happy? The results are dire, the performances are dross and it's much the same from last year.
There are certainly a few positives to take. Our 3 signings from the summer all look very impressive. The club looked to have changed mentalities towards transfers. They allowed players that don’t have the club ethos to move on and cut their losses. But we’ve all always said a manager needs 3/4 transfer windows to stamp their mark on a squad that is short of quality.
 

RichH2016

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There are certainly a few positives to take. Our 3 signings from the summer all look very impressive. The club looked to have changed mentalities towards transfers. They allowed players that don’t have the club ethos to move on and cut their losses. But we’ve all always said a manager needs 3/4 transfer windows to stamp their mark on a squad that is short of quality.
There are no positives on a team who sit 10th in the table and deservedly so. A team that plays dull dross football. This team, this club deserve zero credit.
 

jsp

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This is the thing until the club decides what it stands for and buys players that fit that brief and consistently appoint managers who fit that brief it will always be 3 or 4 windows for each manager because we go from one extreme to the next.

They might be at that point now but I’m not buying it as who’s setting that brief/standard/culture.

I’m not even sure I know what Ole is we’ve all said we can’t really see it we all like the 3 new signing but that’s about it so far the football is as bad as it was under Jose as are the results.

It’s tough as he’s polishing a turd in terms of attacking talent but he must see that in training and the way they played at the end of last season and surely it’s something that he should have addressed by now.
 

jsp

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I love Ole but I’m just not seeing anything that suggests he’s up to the job.

The tactics, the set pieces, fitness level, his substitutions dont seem to change week to week.

He took a chance by stripping back the squad but he’s left it to short and I think he knows it but that was his decision and it might have to cost him his job.
 

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