£900m spent in 6 years ... and this is what we have.

SuperRash

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It is baffling how bad we have been with money. Wrong players bought, wrong managers hired. Sure we are in a transition period but everyone has been saying that since 2013. This club is just horrid right now.

I know we have injuries but sheesh this West Ham game was bad bad bad bad.
 
The problem for me is every time we changed the manager it changed the style. The new manager was coming in , sometimes getting rid of players the old manager bought or not fancying them and starting again. There has been no clear plan or strategy going forward. We are in a difficult place at the moment because we don't really know oles thoughts. He has a sunny disposition and talks about his fantastic players. If he believes that then we certainly have a problem
 
Yep that’s it, we kept on bringing managers who have different plans. Obviously all managers are going to have different strategies but we’ve been giving managers hundreds of millions, then it going wrong, getting rid of players, spending hundreds of millions, going wrong - it’s been an endless cycle.

Trusting youth is admirable but we need experience and it’s just not there, the experience we have in Matic and Mata are done at this level.
 
But it hasn't been great management either tbh. I understand that lukaku and Sanches might not be the type of player you want but you have to have either a long or short term plan if you get rid. If the players are not available maybe look at short term measures. Llorente and Sturridge were both out of contract, maybe one of those could have given us a year or 2.
 
Of the players signed in the last 6 years how many are still here?

That number is a big number but the vast majority of these signings have already been shipped out.

The club has got it wrong for a long time but this summer it’s got it right dumped a lot of the duds and signed 3 good players. More had to be done but at least something is now being done.
 
We look like, and are currently performing as a mid table team. Whilst the managers obviously shoulder a lot of the blame, Ed Woodward is the man who is most responsible for the mess we are in. Poor transfer activity and no clear direction for the club. I actually think he does not want a Director of Football. We are not good enough to finish to 6 let alone top 4 so I wonder what plans Ed has for this eventuality?
 
Of the players signed in the last 6 years how many are still here?

26 players signed since Fergie retired prior to this summer.

14 of them have been moved on.

Remaining we have

Mata
Shaw
Rojo
Romero
Martial
Bailly
Pogba
Lindelof
Matic
Dalot
Fred
Grant
 
So probably another 4 or 5 need moving on there. This is a massive rebuild that needs doing. Not convinced ole is the right man for the job but now they have given him the job they have to give him time.
 
In theory a lot of our signings have made sense over the years:

Depay - up and coming talent, looked a real star for PSV and Holland.

Di Maria - world class talent and did start off well before going pear shaped.

Schneiderlin - proven PL performer and someone we needed to beef up midfield.

Fred - proven quality with Donetsk in spite it being in an inferior league. Looked a quality addition at the time.

Mkhitaryan - class act for Dortmund but ended up the way of Kagawa.

I could go on and on. However, for whatever reasons most of our signings haven’t really worked out. Even one of our most successful signings in Ibra probably wasn’t right for us really as even though he scored goals he clearly stunted the way we wanted to play. Although I would cry out for someone of Ibra’s class right now.

It’s just been a horror show of signings over the years and then you look at City and Liverpool whose signings just work. I swear if we bought Wijnaldum from Newcastle he would be getting slated here but surrounded by decent players at Liverpool he looks not bad at all.

We are going to have to spend a lot of money to get us back to where we want to be. We have talented youngsters but throw them in with the dross of Mata, Matic etc then it isn’t going to work, you can’t expect 17 year olds to get you into the top four. There is also going to come a time when players are going to think even harder about whether they want to come here. We still have our name and history but right now I couldn’t imagine a really top draw player in their peak wanting to come here.
 
I think it basically comes down to losing a winning culture the moment Fergie left it became ok to finish second or third or fourth that just doesn't happen at other top clubs they change manager and still expect to win the league now they didn't have the situation we had with a guy who'd been in charge for 30 years.

The transition of the squad post Ferguson has been a mess an expensive example of how not to build a squad over paid for players who did not fit the culture and standard of our club, players signed in desperation rather than planning.

Di Maria one of the worlds best dribblers signed for a manager who doesn't like players running with the ball.

Mata signed when we already had 2 number 10's

Fellaini signed for a huge fee despite not being better than what we already had

Falcao signed on loan despite having just come back from a career threatening injury.

Existing players sold off for pennies compared to what we were paying to buy replacements for.

Academy neglected by the owners and under invested the top English talent isn't all at Utd anymore we still have the odd gem but the production line has been halted to some extent.

Years of miss management finally coming home to roost on the pitch the road back is going to be long and bumpy I'm not convinced Ole has the quality to guide us back but I'm fully behind his plan to clear out the deadwood but they lack of investment in the summer was a huge mistake.
 
I'm beginning to find the short term "we want success now" of united fans on phone ins etc really annoying. Ole out etc. This is partially the probem, keep changing managers etc.

We all knew, when two successful managers in Jose and LVG struggled, the club was a mess. It still is a mess, it's going to take more than 1 tranasfer window to correct it.

But, we can see what they are trying to do, the goal this season is top 4, the way Ole was speaking earlier in the season it sounds like the board have given him top 6. Spurs lost, Chelsea lost, Arsenal reallya re going to struggle with that defence, yet all the press is united.

At least 5 of those players fielded yesterday are not top 4 players. We ended up with Lingard playing up top.

Yes we can point fingers, shouldn't have got rid of Lukaku and Sanchez. Yes we should, they weren't good enough and you need to start shipping out to start the process, it's unfortunate we have Martial, Rashford and Greenwood out.

There has to come a point where we draw a line under the last 7 years, and that came when they employed Ole. Now we need to need give him and his team the time to sort it. It will be painful.

And why is it we think we should be beating West Ham, they are strong side this season, Is that 3 clean sheets in a row? their midfield yesterday was way better than ours.

Our squad is poor, it's just the beginning of a rebuild, for god sake, give them a chance.

Who is it exactly this fans think we should be buying to make us compete? with no CL, and fans moaning when we pay high wage. It's a joke.

They are targetting young hungry players, mainly british, to have this side competing in two seasons or so.

So please, just wait, be patient, and support the team.
 
I actually cannot believe people are signalling for Ole out already. Yes things aren’t going well but you wanted Mourinho gone what did you expect would happen? Things aren’t going to turn around over night.

We’ve tried the sacking of managers. We’ve been through 3 managers now. Two of them the most successful managers of all time. You wanted something fresh well now it’s time to sit back and wait to see if the plan of sacking until we ended up with Ole worked.

But he’s a club legend and deserves some time so stick with it now. I’m bored of all the talk of sacking our managers.
 
I far from want Ole sacked, it’s not his fault we are in this mess. Obviously he didn’t bring in exactly what we needed over the summer and has left us a little short but he’s got out some deadwood, promoted youth, bought two gun defensive players. I think he’s doing alright with what he’s got. If we sacked him tomorrow the guy coming in next would be on a hiding to nothing.

We have been unlucky with injuries so far. If we had scored our penalties vs Wolves and Palace we may well have been sitting pretty in 3rd. With our squad we can’t afford injuries but I think if we can keep our first choice line up fit then we have a chance of top four. It’s all very much dependent on who we can keep fit. We have Martial as our number 9 and Pogba as our creator then top four is a possibility, if we have Rashford up top for the majority and Mata/Lingard supplying then top six will be a push.
 
I think it would help if there was more honesty and open ness from the club.

If Ole said we wanted to bring in another midfielder and attacker in the summer but couldn't get deals done in times fans would at least know they tried... we all know they went for Dybala when that didn't happen why didn't we look at an alternative?

The concern and rightfully so is you've got a relatively inexperienced manager who obviously loves the club in charge of this very serious project of rebuilding the club and owners who don't seem to be that bothered about funding that rebuild. Everything at the club needs to be bought up to date we've got to leave the 90's behind what worked before won't necessarily work now the world has changed.

They've gone with this plan they've got to stick with it now certainly until the summer I think they've got to possibly look at some short term fixes in January if the kids aren't capable of stepping up and continue with the clear out if possible.
 
I think the problem is we are behind the times and need that buffer between Woodward and the manager whoever that is or who has been. If Ole goes up to Ed and says right that’s it I’m happy with the squad then Ed is gonna go awesome. If we had an experienced DOF then he could be like hold on a minute maybe we need something more. It wouldn’t be to undermine the manager but to help him out.

The club is all kinds of wrong right now.
 
We need proper football administrators in positions of power making decisions.

The Glazers and Woodward need to step to the side and go and poach the guys who structure these top super clubs get the best in the business in and let them build the football side all they need to do is give them the budget. This is the budget for yr 1, yr 2, yr 3 etc go and rebuild this club let Woodward focus on bringing the money into the club and let the guys with proven track records organise the football side of the club.


You know things are bad when the clubs putting out statements these all sound good but why don't you tell us what you've actually done who's in charge of all of this what are we doing different now to 5 years ago. Is the bit about not buying players based on their commercial value an admission that they did it in the past?

As for the investment in the squad lines this is something that will always be on going but you can't hide the fact that more money has been spent paying off debts and paying the owners than has been spent on players in the last decade.
 
No they do not have to give him time. Stop letting his status cloud your judgement of him. You wouldn't be this forgiving to Mourinho, so why is Ole allowed to lower expectations and be cheered on for doing so?
 
It's nothing to do with status. We should never have appointed him when we did but given they appointed him he deserves the chance to change things and he has barely had a chance so far.
 
No they do not have to give him time. Stop letting his status cloud your judgement of him. You wouldn't be this forgiving to Mourinho, so why is Ole allowed to lower expectations and be cheered on for doing so?

Even Liverpool and Klopp took time. In his first season they finished 8th. The following season 4th. Things take time to happen it doesn’t happen over night.
 
No they do not have to give him time. Stop letting his status cloud your judgement of him. You wouldn't be this forgiving to Mourinho, so why is Ole allowed to lower expectations and be cheered on for doing so?

Because he isn’t a complete twat.

If expectations are lowered so you can cut out the cancer that exists in the squad then fine but how far do you let it go?

Average players on world class wages that is a problem that takes time and money to solve we couldn’t just keep drifting along someone had to take some hopefully short term pain for long term gain.

Mourinho saw these problems but rather than stick it out and work behind the scenes he created a poisonous atmosphere that ripped the entire club apart turned everyone against each other and made sure the club had to sack him and pay him off.
 
Klopp reached 2 cup finals that year (knocking us out along the way to the 2nd) and had success at Dortmund. You could also see that he was implementing his playing style.
Klopp also achieved miracles at Dortmund and it took Bayern's greatest ever side to overcome him.
 
We need proper football administrators in positions of power making decisions.

The Glazers and Woodward need to step to the side and go and poach the guys who structure these top super clubs get the best in the business in and let them build the football side all they need to do is give them the budget. This is the budget for yr 1, yr 2, yr 3 etc go and rebuild this club let Woodward focus on bringing the money into the club and let the guys with proven track records organise the football side of the club.


You know things are bad when the clubs putting out statements these all sound good but why don't you tell us what you've actually done who's in charge of all of this what are we doing different now to 5 years ago. Is the bit about not buying players based on their commercial value an admission that they did it in the past?

As for the investment in the squad lines this is something that will always be on going but you can't hide the fact that more money has been spent paying off debts and paying the owners than has been spent on players in the last decade.
I think that bringing Allegri in would allow us to get Woodward away from the football side as he would set preconditions like making sure Ed doesn't interfere along with promises about funds. He could strengthen his hand by insisting on a director of Football (if not Van der Sar then Evra) and cite the promises made initially about appointing one along with concerns about the way that LVG and Jose (2 great managers) and Ole (a club legend who should have never been appointed but a club legend nonetheless) were treated.
I think that hes also a bit more progressive than Jose and Pogba would want to play for him again. Hes tactically astute (remember his masterclass to knock Tottenham out in 2018? Or Barcelona the year before?) Evra would also be a great DoF to work with Allegri as he's not part of the same old boys network of yes men like Neville.
 
I think that bringing Allegri in would allow us to get Woodward away from the football side as he would set preconditions like making sure Ed doesn't interfere along with promises about funds. He could strengthen his hand by insisting on a director of Football (if not Van der Sar then Evra) and cite the promises made initially about appointing one along with concerns about the way that LVG and Jose (2 great managers) and Ole (a club legend who should have never been appointed but a club legend nonetheless) were treated.
I think that hes also a bit more progressive than Jose and Pogba would want to play for him again. Hes tactically astute (remember his masterclass to knock Tottenham out in 2018? Or Barcelona the year before?) Evra would also be a great DoF to work with Allegri as he's not part of the same old boys network of yes men like Neville.

No he wouldn’t if Mourinho couldn’t wrestle control from Ed then no one is. They gave Jose a bumper new deal then cut his legs off by not backing him the next summer no manager will ever hold real power again at this club again under these owners.

It’s was a clear directive from the club in the past they wanted marketable players Ole seems to have changed that way of thinking to look for young, hungry players not cast offs/big names from the elite clubs coming for a pay day or because they were being forced out.

Forget a director of football it won’t happen they don’t actually want one the owners want Woodwardin charge they don’t want someone outside their little clique making decisions.

As for the names you suggest what makes them qualifiedif we are appointing directors of football I want guys who’ve worked at clubs like Bayer, Juve, Barca etc in these roles we need the best available people being put in positions not just ex players. Get them involved but they need someone to learn from.
 

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